Well on my Glocks I grip as high as possible to get the bore axis as low as I can to my body. Is this practice still the same with revolvers? One would think yes but I wanted to ask.

If yes this leads me to my issue. I got a 686 Talo with the fish scale grips. I hate them. I then got a set of boot Altamont. I hate them.

Both of these don't fit me AT ALL I feel. Why? Finger grooves. I want to grip high on the revolver due to my practice with a slide gun but these finger grooves will not let me. Now I don't have a large hand but I'd say I'm average. If I lower my grip the grips fit great. But it doesn't feel natural to me to hold my grip so low on the gun.

So unless I'm doing it all wrong finger groove stocks don't work for me, yet. I like the idea of finger groove stocks and even the look. I'd like to try some Ahrends tactical grips in hope my fingers would line up like a nice fitting glove but I'm worried to spend the 80-90 to try.

Does anyone in northern South Carolina have a set on their revolver I could feel? Or is my grip just all wrong?

In answer to your Q yes, you do want to hold as high as possible on a revolver. As to grips it's hard to say, I have a drawer full of grips that did not work for me. It's an individual thing and you just have to experiment until you get it just right. Sometimes the small stock factory grip w/a grip adapter is perfect, depending on the frame size of the gun.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

You didn't say if you are going to carry this 686 or not. If you are the best boot grip I ever had was from Uncle Mike's, but it was on a SP101. For the range my 686 and 629 (both RB's) have Hogue rubber conversion grips without the finger grooves, my 627 has a wood Hogue RB, also no finger grooves. The Hogue's just work for me.

I have the 3" Talo 686-6 with those useless fish scale grips. I replaced them with the Ahrends Tacticals. The groves are close to the same fit a Hogues, so if yiou have any Hogue grips, that would be a nice indicator. I am very happy with the Ahrends.

Yes I bought it solely to carry

I think you are on the right track with the Ahrends Tacticals. I have them on a few of my revolvers that I use as range guns. If you want it to carry, they make a boot grip that is pretty nice too.

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Accuracy supercedes Speed

Yes, but understand you will never get as high on a revolver as you can on a semi-automatic. Also your grip is different on both platforms. I post below the proper technique as taught by the NRA in the basic practical pistol course plus. (of which I'm a proud graduate)





Whenever I watch a YouTube video I can always spot the amateurs just by the way they are holding the revolver. Then once they try to play some movie part and swing the cylinder close I move along.

As 'Old cop' mentions grips are like holsters, both of which you might end up with a drawer full. I've been fortunate in that the rubber grips S&W uses fit me good and feel good to me. Particularly the Uncle Mikes boot grips they where using on the J-Frames. My new Governor has the same grips (bigger of course) so it worked out good for me.

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Mulebuk Sam and the Governor

I will say that for whatever reason I like putting my support hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. Semi auto or revolver. And I cannot seem to break this habit

I really believe that we have something that will help you feel more comfortable when carrying and shooting your 686, like a few people above have already mentioned. If you'd like to take a look, I've included the link to our website for 686 grips. We have a ton of options: wood, rubber, G10...in finger groove and non finger groove as well. Hogue Inc.

Our customer service team is a great resource to use to find the right grip that will not only be comfortable for the hold you're used to, but also provide a secure grip on your firearm....after all this is what we do! If you like, you can call 1-800-438-4747 for more advice on the right grip for you.

I like a low grip, and the grooves on the X500 grips that I put on my Model 69 .44mag and my Model 686 .357 are just right. But I shoot SA only, and full-spec .44mag, so fast followup shots aren't something that is important to me. And even with my two 1911's, I use a low, relaxed grip and flexed joints, and shoot full-spec 10mm and .45 Super, so fast followups aren't important to me there either.

My thoughts...

Yes, generally you should grip as high up as possible, at least if fast follow-up shots are important (and with a carry gun, they should be). However, you should make sure that your hand doesn't go so high that the fleshy part of your hand interferes with the hammer spur when shooting DA.

Another consideration is how you draw the gun. The nice thing about semi-autos like the Glock is they have a grip tang that you can wedge your hand into when you draw. Revolvers don't have that. I carry a 642 Centennial, which I can grip higher than non-Centennial revolvers. However, I've found that my draws are more consistently on target if I don't grip all the way up. So grip as high as you can on your revolver, just make sure it's a grip that gives you good draw consistency.

One more consideration is the angle your trigger finger makes to the trigger. The sweet spot is where your hand can grip high but still gives your trigger finger plenty of leverage on the DA pull.

Like others have said, grips are going to be a personal choice and will likely require some experimentation to find what works for you. I'm one of those who don't like finger groove grips. I like Spegel boot grips, but the one thing I don't like about them is the finger grooves. When drawing from the holster my middle finger almost always ends up right on that middle horn between the grooves. Fortunately, it's neither particularly sharp nor particularly pronounced, so it's not that big of an issue. And the palm swell shape and the horns that extend all the way up the Centennial grip frame outweigh the relatively minor inconvenience of the finger grooves.

I know you're concerned about the cost of getting higher-end grips only to have them end up being less-than-optimal, but one advantage to the higher-end grips is that you can resell them and get at least some of your money back. I had bought some Ahrends Tactical grips for a 3" 65 I had at the time, the ones with the flat front straps. They didn't work for me so I sold them. I ended up buying the Retro model with the rounded front strap and they worked much better for me. The funny thing is that the grips that worked the best for me on the K-frames were PGS Hideout grips, which I believe are around $20 from Brownells.

I tried a high hold with my 629 and...

It. Hurt. A. Lot.

I can pull it off with my 686 6" but that's the limit for me.

There's a concept I teach semi shooters called "Fight the Gun"; provide a solid platform to allow the slide to do its work and help get back on target. Don't ride the recoil, keep a firm grip and some (not too much) muscle tension. With a .44 Magnum this goes out the window...takes a better man than me to fight that gun. Hold it low and ride it out.

I gotta' say I've never been disappointed by any Hogue product I've bought, and I've bought a bunch.
What does it for me with the Hogue revolver grips is they have a palm swell. It fits my hand like the proverbial glove.

For $21 I just got some Hogue Bantam grips. The only thing I HAVE about them is how hard they are to remove.

Keep trying! I used to do this too, when I was shooting a lot of PPC. One day, someone gave me some valuable advice to pull that finger underneath where it will work for you. When under the trigger guard, it does not give as much strength to the grip as it does if it is holding the the stocks. It really mitigates recoil a lot, and helps with getting back on target rapidly and improves accuracy. The forefinger is a probably the strongest finger and needs to be used! Rather than hung out under the trigger guard.

As to stocks. I really like Hogue finger groove stocks and have been using them for around 40 years. I have hands on the smaller side, yet my hands fit right in the finger grooves and seem natural. I use rubber mostly now, because they stick to the hands better, but I started using them when they were two piece wood stocks and they made different sizes, they might still, don't know.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Not if you're carrying a 5-shot .44mag S&W69, and shooting SA. I prefer that gun for carry more than any other gun I have. I use a low grip, and a very relaxed grip and flexed joints. MUCH more pleasant to shoot that way, and also more accurate for me. With only 5 shots (before a fairly slow reload), my emphasis is focused on putting the bullet where I want it. If I can do that, I'll only need ONE.

On N and K frames, I hold 'em as high as possible, both single- and double-action. For that reason, I hate finger grooves with a passion. If I'm going high, they still sort've fit, but if I'm really going as high as I like, they just get in the way and bunch up my fingers.

On the J frame, I have to hold lower in order to maintain some degree of leverage on the trigger through a double-action pull.

I can imagine someone wrapping their weak hand in front of the trigger guard of a revolver just once. Painful! The same with resting your thumb(s) on the recoil shield. Painful but at least no burns.

Hogue grips have a palm bulge which I find a little low for best tactical shooting. Ahrends grips do not have a pronounced bulge, and are wider at the top, promoting an higher grip, which produces less muzzle flip. I place the web of my thumb even with the break.

Ahrends "Tactical" grips have a flattened front, which helps indexing, with or without finger grooves. Ahrends grooves fit my hand (medium) just fine, but I like them both ways too. Ahrends "Retro" grips have a rounded front, and much less taper than the original S&W "Target" grips.

For carry with a short (3" or less) .357, I use boot grips, or round tactical grips, for better concealment. The slightly longer tactical grips work better for .44 Mag, which torques a lot more than .357.

Sometimes, you just need to take some sandpaper, a file or even a Dremel tool (!) to those finger groove grips.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

You can do what you want, but given how fast and close most self defense encounters are, I am NOT going to be taking the time to get a carefully aimed SA shot with a relaxed grip.

When I was instructing (using Model 10s, Model 64s) all double-action, I had my students place the web of their hand at the top of the grip and hold tight (I used to call it the "white-knuckle grip"). For solid double-action shooting you need to have a firm grip on your gun for the follow-up shots. You can achieve this with basic Magna grips, Pachmayrs, finger-groove grips. It is all about controlling your gun during recoil and not letting it wiggle around in your hand.

Why, yes, I still do rely on the good ol' 38 Special for defense.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

I hold high. Never found grips that Inliked in my N frame revolvers, until I tried VZ. The grooves just guide your hand to a high hold. Love 'em!

Bill Jordan covered this a bit in No Second Place Winner. That whole section on grips was an interesting read, and stood in stark contrast to the modern-day trend of super-sticky grips.

Long story short, he thought good grips, when you grabbed 'em and squeezed 'em and yanked a gun out of a holster with 'em, should slide your hand into a decent shooting grip.

i always hold my revolvers high. Always have, always will. Always teach new shooters the same. Better recoil control. Especially for DA. Yes, my 29s also.

I also take a high hold. So much so that the large target hammers push against the web of my hand in SA. Can be annoying so they sometimes get swapped out for hammers with smaller cocking spurs (or get cut slap off on some dedicated DA revolvers.) Same hold no matter J frame or N. .44 Mag. or .22.

See S391's Post #21 with the Jerry Miculek video on revolver holds in this thread:

Tips For Better Revolver Shooting

I don't do much speed shooting any more, but the fundamentals are the same.

Until I arrive here last January I'd never considered how or where I held a handgun. I held each one where it was comfortable in my hand and when I pulled the trigger -- sort of a natural feeling grip on the stocks, and having the right stocks to get that feel has ever been to the fore.

Now, with your guidance, I can't say anything has changed except that I'm aware of why I hold where I do and why it works. It's natural for me to hold high.

That became more obvious as I delved into the world of Centennial models. I have to hold high to get a sense of better leverage or torque or whatever the appropriate term is to smoothly pull that dao trigger. It is indeed all about the right stocks.

I have a large paw and can't hold 'em high with the OEM miniature galoshes that came on my 340 and 640. For that natural high hold I was thrilled the first time I put on the Karl Nill stocks made for Centennials.

Combining attributes others have mentioned, the Nill's work for me because the big wood makes the gun easy to draw, puts it in exactly the right position as I draw, and naturally sets my hand high for a perfect dao pull. Recovery for follow-on shots, even with heavy .357s, is a piece of cake.

You might have seen this before, but here's a look at the progression I went through to get it right for me.

Cheers,

Bob

Attached Images

grip progression - side view.jpg (93.1 KB, 43 views)

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

I believe that aiming for a high hold on a S&W revolver, and probably the others, is a mistake. There are other factors involved, and they are probably more important, and they are also maybe something you can do something about, without screwing everything else up.

First, the grips have to fit YOUR hand. Finger-groove grips don't fit everyone's hands, although Hogues and Rogers do fit MINE, at least in K, L & N. Not many others do, and, of course, YMMV.

Second, they have to assist you in not being excessively disturbed by the recoil (of some CF cartridges). FWIW, I was ready to SELL my 325PD until I tried Hogue's soft Rubber Monogrip(s?). It handled recoil better than any other grip, although Pachmayr Compac grips were almost good enough. The Hogues were a LOT lighter, and still better (for me).

Third, it would be nice if they caused the sights to be pretty much aligned in a natural hold of the revolver. In K, L & N, this seems to happen with me with Hogue, Pachmayr Presentation & Rogers. Again, YMMV.

Everything else being equal, a higher grip is better. Everything else is never equal.

P.S. Make sure you go to the link on jaymoore's post #25, and scroll down to Jerry Miculek's video. Obviously, this is someone to listen to.

All of which reminds me (as well as 75Vette' observations during last weekend's match) that the exception to my Post above is the scoped 629 below which currently gets a low hold with the firing hand. The support hand goes on the front of the scope bell.... So maybe it averages out?



Older photo:


Think I was holding higher back in March, but the lower hold seems to help with trigger release.

I like that mount where did you get it?

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USN Retired/VN VET
M&P X5

Two mounts: Base is probably Weigand, riser is Ken Light. Rings are "temporary" Millets. Surprised they've held up this long as the clamp screws are severely stressed!

jaymore, do you go through very many jacket sleeves from muzzle-blast? I have shot a few rounds of Hunter Pistol Silhouette (many years ago), and wish there was match near that I could still shoot. It was fun. I have a 29-3 with the 4 position front sight that would be great for that match with a mid range 44 mag load.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Plus 1 for holding high on a revolver like Jerry Miculek. Also finger groves are useless for me too. On a pistol my off hand index finger is on the front of the trigger guard. NOT however on a revolver. On my Walther PPQ my grip is very high and almost interferes with the slide release, on my Sig 210 it does interfere with the slide release and is lower. My point each pistol/revolver I own requires a different grip. Something to get use to!

No sleeves or gloves needed with this particular revolver. Even though my forearm is about even with the muzzle I have yet to even feel a breeze up there. The cylinder gap does make a breeze, however it isn't prone to spitting. The BB standing champ uses an arm guard, but his high rise scoped TC in .300 Blackout has a muzzle brake!

BTW, my "mid range" 100 yard .44 load has been good out to 200m. Dead soft Speer LSWC (with extra lube) over a case full of either RL7 or IMR4198. The AFS on the 10 5/8" barrel (revolver #2) has sufficient travel to shoot those slow loads.

For fast DA shooting, I like a grip that covers the backstrap, and places the "curve of the tang", so to speak, a little lower. While it might result in a little more muzzle rise than a super high hold, it gives me a better angle on the trigger for smooth DA work, and reduces the bruised middle finger I get with heavy kickers. I also have sausage sized fingers (my size 21 ring is tight). I have seen a lot of DA shooter with really high holds tend to pull their shots low due to the finger / trigger angle, especially with magna style grips. A straight pull to the rear is important to good DA shooting, though in a situation measured in feet, it really doesn't matter as much.

Like other have said though, you really have to experiment to find the grips that fit you, and your style of shooting.

Larry

Here's what I consider a High Hold as used by another LH shooter.



I think the limitation here is consistency in hand placement. Seems rather easier to me to have small changes go unnoticed, which may lead to "odd" high or low rounds. Would also expect the revolver to naturally hit higher than with a high hold. Possibly to the point that the rear sight could bottom out and rounds would still go high, depending on bullet weight.

The answer really is "it depends".

Sure, moving your hand up as high as possible without interfering will put the axis of the bore lower in your hand and more in line with your arm. Theoretically that will reduce muzzle rise and speed the follow up on the next shot. However that theoretical benefit will usually be over shadowed by all the downsides of a really sucky and inconsistent grip.

There's more to a rapid follow up shot than using a high grip, and that goes double if you actually want to hit something with both the first and second shots - particularly with a DA revolver, where you have a long and comparatively heavy trigger.

If you're one of those folks I see at the range who point a revolver down range and spray bullets all over a B-27 target at 5 yards, then by all means use a high grip and make it your #1 priority. And good luck with that if you ever have to use it for real.

Getting rapid shots on target with sufficient accuracy to have a high probability of scoring the CNS and cardio pulmonary hits you need to actually stop an assailant depends on actually using the sights, having a consistent grip and decent trigger control.

I don't mean lining the sights up like you would in a bullseye match. I mean developing superb consistency in grip over long hours of practice so that the front and rear sights are already aligned with each other as the front sight on the pistol or revolver rises into your line of sight as you are looking at the target. At that point all that is needed is to place the front sight on the spot you want to bleed and finish the press of the trigger. Follow up shots work the same way, releasing the shot as soon as the front blade comes back on target, relying primarily on a consistent grip to ensure adequate sight alignment.

You get to that point over hours of practice and thousands of rounds fired. You start by smoothly and slowly drawing the gun and bringing it to eye level so that that the sights are aligned, then pause to verify the sight alignment before sending the shot down range. Once the sights are coming up pre-aligned, you can pick up the pace and shorten the pause. Eventually the pause just serves as a less than .1 second opportunity to verify the target and the need to shoot.

You'll find your self shooting faster than the guy in the next lane spraying bullets all over the target, and you'll find nearly all your shots are in the 9 and 10 rings with just a couple 8s now and then. If you're shooting an FBI bottle target, you'll find your rounds are all near the center of the bottle.

I can pretty much guarantee you'll never get there using a high grip with a DA revolver.

With a semi-auto pistol, it's less of an issue as a high grip tends to work with a fair number of semi-auto pistols. However, your priority still needs to be on developing a consistent grip, and being able to create that grip starting in the holster. If you're having to compromise that consistent grip, have to shift the pistol in your hand, or feel the pistol shift in your hand, high grip will be counterproductive. Period. If you can make it work with different grips then good for you. If not, screw the high grip as in the larger scheme of things it's just not one of the important issues.

With a DA revolver a high grip can be ridiculously counterproductive.

Look at the two photos below - it's a single hand grip, but I need one hand to hold the camera and it also shows the more critical position in the strong hand.

In the first picture, the grip is low, but the web of the hand meets the grip in exactly the intended spot, and I can create this grip drawing from my holster with 100% consistency. This means that when the revolver rises into my line of sight the sights are already aligned every time I draw, aided to a great degree by the natural point of the revolver with this grip. It also leaves the trigger finger lower with a better angle on the trigger, allowing slightly more precise trigger control with less strain.



With the grip moved as high as possible, short of interfering with the hammer, I can't maintain this grip consistently and it's very hard to create this grip consistently from the holster. Worse, the front blade is too high on the draw and I have to rotate my wrist forward to get the sights on target. That actually interferes with the alignment of my fore arm and slows the follow up under recoil, as well as creating both excessive strain in the arm, and inconsistency from shot to shot. Do it enough and you'll develop what amounts to tennis elbow. If you think you're going to shoot faster in this condition, you're badly mistaken. And don't even think about accuracy.

Now...to be fair, you probably won't develop tennis elbow as the ball of your thumb will be screaming at you long before then as the top for the tang will be slamming into it with each and every shot, and after a fair number of rounds your lower three fingers will be trembling from the effort of trying to prevent the revolver from rotating the pistol upward. News flash - any theoretical benefit you think you gained with the high grip will be offset by the greater tendency for the pistol to rotate in your hand, creating a slower follow up in addition to poor consistency and poor accuracy. The flinch you'll develop with a .357 Mag in a K or J frame sized revolver or a .41 or .44 in an N frame revolver will also render any possibility of accurate bullet placement an impossibility.



Two pieces of advice on DA revolver advice:

1. Before you put much stock in any advice you hear, make sure that person can actually shoot a DA revolver well under real world self defense conditions; and

2. Understand that what is ideal for one person, with their revolver, there grips and their hands, might not work at all well for you.

There's no short cut to finding what works for you, but your number 1 priority needs to be the ability to create and maintain a consistent grip that naturally brings the sights into alignment as you raise the pistol or revolver into your line of sight and place the front blade on the target.

fishnfool has the right message about the trigger pulling straight back, and BB57 demonstrates it in pic #1. Even Jerry M says from the draw his grip may not be perfect, and he may or may not try to adjust it!

BB57's "low grip" is only marginally lower than my "high grip". As for his "high grip", that's, umm, new to me!

But generally I agree with the bulk of his Post.

(I used to shoot almost exclusively DA except for Bullseye and IHMSA. Good enough to win a match or three at Ft Benning through 2003.)