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  #1  
Old 09-08-2016, 05:02 PM
captainwayne captainwayne is offline
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Since I have a 686+Super Tuned 4", I wanted the 617 as it was very similar in size and weight, and could practice with the less expensive 22LR.
They became available at Gallery of Guns (great price at $659.99), so I bought one 2 weeks ago, heading to the range the same day.
Immediately I had several FTF's per cylinder, but they would sometimes fire the second time around. After firing, the cylinder had to be hit with the palm of my hand to open it, and the ejector rod had to be hit to eject the spent rounds. When I say hit, I mean with the edge of the table at the range. Couldn't do it with my hand. Then, after 100 rounds or so, when I tried to eject the 10 rounds, 1 or 2 were left in the cylinder, apparently pushed below the extractor itself! I tried the same ammo in a Ruger 10/45 I had, without a single FTF.
I was determined to get this right, so I took it apart, put in a spring kit, and polished every surface with FLITZ. I did not
remove metal. Back to the range, and every single issue was still happening. But the trigger job I did was awesome, feeling close to my super tuned 686+.
I just left a message with Customer Support, waiting for a reply. Does sound familiar to anyone?
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Old 09-08-2016, 05:11 PM
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Did you clean the gun with Hoppes 9 or your favorite cleaner and oil the gun before either trip to the range?

That probably sounds like an ignorant question since you've done the Flitz, springs, and polish on the inside, but a dirty gun (i.e., cylinders, barrel, etc., and no oil on the moving parts) could contribute to your problem with a Smith .22.

My two bits,

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Old 09-08-2016, 05:12 PM
mikesal34744 mikesal34744 is offline
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I have one and love it. Was it all the same ammo or did it happen with all types ? That sucks because it's normally a great gun.

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Old 09-08-2016, 05:12 PM
mikesal34744 mikesal34744 is offline
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Sorry just saw the ammo worked fine in your ruger

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Old 09-08-2016, 05:15 PM
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They'll ask you to send it back to them. I have a 625 that had a short firing pin, and didn't fire all rounds. They fixed it for no charge. Sounds like that might be what's up.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:43 PM
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What ammo were you using? Mine will do the same thing with a few types of ammo but works flawlessly with CCI MiniMags as well as their other varieties, Federal AutoMatch and other Federal brands. Aquilla works fine and so does Blazer.

Before you send it back I would try some different ammo after a complete cleaning of the cylinders. New ammo should solve your problem.
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Old 09-08-2016, 06:49 PM
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When my 617 gets dirty it gets more difficult to eject and also the ammo sometimes does not seat completely never had a FTF but sometimes the cylinder is hard to close so I open it up and seat the ammo on down.

I find mine no more contrary to use than any other 22 revolver. Most the ammo shoots dirty and is the nature of the beast. The ammo gums up all 22s at some point.
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:13 PM
captainwayne captainwayne is offline
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I appreciate the responses. I've been a shooter my whole life, but didn't know all the nuances of a rimfire.This gun WON'T extract without being hit. I guess the buildup of carbon contributes to sticking rounds.I have a feeling I'll be testing S&W customer service!
No matter, I'm a Smith guy, and will continue to be one. My super tuned 686+ from the factory is equal in SA or DA to my 1975 Colt Python, and better than my 1980 Colt Diamondback. Couldn't ask for mores!
Thank you all again
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:24 PM
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Sorry to hear about your troubles with a brand new .22LR revolver. Your situation is, unfortunately, fairly common........S&W is probably using their .22LR chamber reamers too long before replacement. A worn chamber reamer will result in an undersize chamber, it's as simple as that.

One solution is for you to use a finishing chamber reamer and complete the job yourself that S&W started for you. I've done this on numerous S&W .22LR revolvers, model 18's, 17's and 617's. All have retained every bit of their inherent accuracy, as the chamber reamer does not affect the throat of the cylinder, only the chamber portion. Check out this thread for additional information.
The tools you need are:
Brownells reamer: 513051220
Brownells Do-drill lubricant: 083007016

If you're not comfortable doing this job yourself, or don't want to undertake it, based on principle alone (totally understandable considering it's a brand new gun) then go ahead and return it to S&W, and hope they make it right.

Good luck,
Lou
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:40 PM
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That sure must be discouraging. But don't give up. Let S&W make it right by you. I've got a 617 that I have had for years with no issues whatsoever. It's a great little brother to it's two 686 big brothers. A fun alternative - and very accurate. Get that bad boy dialed in and you will have a gun that you will love shooting for years to come.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:19 PM
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Sorry to hear of your troubles. Lou NC is spot on. I used a finish reamer on my 617 and it solved my ejection problems. Yours sounds worse than mine was. I had no FTF issues but after 60 or 70 rounds ejection was tough. FTF is probably because the round is not fully seated.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:26 PM
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I shoot my 617 in Steel Challenge competition. I used the reamer to bring the chambers up to SAAMI specification. Have not had any problem. Easy to do.




New 617, Disappointing!-dsc_0153-jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_NC View Post
Sorry to hear about your troubles with a brand new .22LR revolver. Your situation is, unfortunately, fairly common........S&W is probably using their .22LR chamber reamers too long before replacement. A worn chamber reamer will result in an undersize chamber, it's as simple as that.

One solution is for you to use a finishing chamber reamer and complete the job yourself that S&W started for you. I've done this on numerous S&W .22LR revolvers, model 18's, 17's and 617's. All have retained every bit of their inherent accuracy, as the chamber reamer does not affect the throat of the cylinder, only the chamber portion. Check out this thread for additional information.
The tools you need are:
Brownells reamer: 513051220
Brownells Do-drill lubricant: 083007016

If you're not comfortable doing this job yourself, or don't want to undertake it, based on principle alone (totally understandable considering it's a brand new gun) then go ahead and return it to S&W, and hope they make it right.

Good luck,
Lou
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Last edited by Macinaw; 11-26-2016 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:30 PM
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That really makes sense. Thank you for the expertise. I'll wait and see what Smith offers, but I'm more inclined to just fix it and get back to shooting it.
I will say that even though I'm mechanically inclined it was challenging to take it apart, and understand what I was looking at,and put it back together. Very satisfying. Singularly, the small spring in the hand kicked my ***! I could't find anything online to help me with that one!
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:32 PM
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Just saw the attachment you sent. I'm on it and thanks!
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:56 AM
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I've found that a patch cut from a "lead wipe away" cloth will clean stubborn 22 chambers better than anything I've ever tried.

I just cut a piece about the size of a 22 patch. Repeat as needed. Follow up with normal cleaning.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:07 AM
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I have had similar problems myself. I used Simichrome polish on a 22 cal brush. A little scrubbing will do wonders. Flitz will get the same results.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:11 AM
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If the OP is experiencing frequent FTFs with his 617, I will bet money that the strain screw needs to be tightened.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:20 AM
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Definitely try thorough cleaning then polishing the chambers with one of the products listed above. I use JB Bore Paste. If still sticky, go the reaming route and follow the instructions EXACTLY.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:32 AM
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Shim the endplay on the cylinder to bring it back into the recoil shield a slight amount. It is a MUST that you or someone for you reams all the cylinders with the "800-741-0015" reamer from Brownell's. Most of the M 617s that I have had on my workbench have what I regard as too small of a forcing cone. Tighten the strain screw or get a slightly longer one.

When shooting; bring a swab with a little solvent on it and clean the cylinder only after every 20 or 30 rounds fired.

Can't find a cylinder shim? Put a drill bit sized to just fit in the yoke tube and very slightly peen the end of the yoke tube. You might have to dress the peening with a very fine file. That will take excessive end play out just as well as shims. ........
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:33 AM
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Another small but useful tip. ALWAYS hold muzzle up and eject cases down. 22's are VERY dirty and the smallest bit of powder residue can get under the ejector and cause FTF and cycling problems. Hope you get problems resolved, they are really great guns! (When they work right!)
Good Luck and Good shooting
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainwayne View Post
After firing, the cylinder had to be hit with the palm of my hand to open it, and the ejector rod had to be hit to eject the spent rounds. When I say hit, I mean with the edge of the table at the range. Couldn't do it with my hand. Then, after 100 rounds or so, when I tried to eject the 10 rounds, 1 or 2 were left in the cylinder, apparently pushed below the extractor itself!
I responded recently to a thread about 22lr revolvers spitting back.

Other than all that I have owned spit in my face. As they get fouled I encountered nearly the same issues.

I had to scrub the chambers often and thoroughly clean to get a smooth operation..

My semi's are not picky.. I don't own 22lr revolvers anymore.

Be careful not to bend the extractor rod being to frisky removing the empties..

Last edited by bigggbbruce; 09-09-2016 at 02:47 PM. Reason: redundant
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Old 09-09-2016, 12:39 PM
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I really doubt S&W will ream the chambers, I think there are several members who would do it if you don't feel like attempting it. With the correct Manson reamer from Brownell's it isn't difficult as long as you go slow, use plenty of cutting oil, and keep the reamer clean. (Pull it out and wipe down 2 or 3 times per chamber while reaming).
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:35 PM
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Always check the strain screw and ejector rod tightness, even a new revolver. The first can cause misfires and the second hard opening the cylinder. Always use the right tools.

.22 LR runs extremely dirty. Clean all chambers thoroughly. Scrub under the extractor star and in cylinder recesses. Any dirt here will make opening difficult and may cause misfires.

Revolvers are a lot more reliable than pistols for .22 LR, especially with cheap ammo. CCI seems to work best.

Last edited by Neumann; 09-09-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:32 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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My two no-dash 617s just shoot and shoot without a hint of a failure of any kind, including difficult extraction. But I use only CCI MiniMags or Federal GameShok ammo with copper-washed bullets. From what I've read over the years about rimfire ammo, the cheap stuff is the cause of many of the reported problems.

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Old 09-09-2016, 03:34 PM
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Would the "strain screw" be the one adjusting the main hammer spring?
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:05 PM
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Would the "strain screw" be the one adjusting the main hammer spring?

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Old 09-09-2016, 04:34 PM
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One writer is correct about rough chambers cut with worn reamers at the factory. These will typically be on the small end of the tolerance. Put a .22 brush in a power drill and polish each chamber on slow speed with the polishing compound for 5-10 seconds. Swab each chamber clean with your Hoppe's or whatever, then once more time with the polish, and swab. This is the safest way to smooth up the chambers and will fix that kind of problem 95% of the time. A common problem with .22 revolvers, even brand new ones. For the other 5%, unless you are a skilled gunsmith, you should forget trying to use a chamber reamer yourself and risk damaging your nice revolver. send it back to the factory.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:49 PM
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Before you go drilling, sanding or sending it back may I make a suggestion ? Mind you many posters are much more knowledgeable than me, but, I have bought 4 new 22lr revolvers over the past few years, all different brands and every one has the same problem as yours with ejecting the empties, how did I fix them ? I shot and cleaned them and after 4-6 range trips, 200-300 rounds each trip, the come out much easier, my Uberti single action was the worst it would only shoot 2-3 cylinders before I couldn't push them out. I clean them every trip and now they have no problem coming out. Good Luck, I'm sure it'll be fine.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:42 PM
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Oh and I forgot, you'll never get a 22 trigger anywhere close to a 686, no matter what version, rimfire and centerfire are 2 different worlds when it comes to triggers.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:05 PM
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Just my opinion , but it would go back. It is a new expensive revolver. Under warranty. Your should not have to fix your self.

I bought a 617 around 6 months ago, with different issues. Canted barrel , could not adjust sights to center.

I sent it back. They fixed the barrel,replaced rear sight even sent me the original. I swear they did something to smooth the action and trigger. All at no cost.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:33 PM
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I have a 17 no-dash made in 1954, used as a much-shot match pistol. Guess what? I have to smack the ejector with the palm of my hand to eject the empties. On at least one occasion I've suffered an FTF due to debris in the chamber recess. A little bit of gunk serves to cushion the blow.

It takes a lot of elbow grease to remove the chamber ring from firing. There is no "throat" in a .22 LR revolver - the bullets are the same size as the brass - a throwback never corrected in the 150 years of their existence. If you see a "throat" in the cylinder, scrub harder.

All of the lubrication is by necessity, EXTERNAL, and gets on everything, especially in bulk packs. CCI and other premium brands are packaged individually in holders. 50 years ago my High Standard Citation never missed a beat. Now I'm lucky to get three rounds between failures (CCI excepted). That happened well before the Great Shortage, when we were grateful to buy anything that reached the shelves.

I have two .22 LR revolvers, a J and a K, which I will use with my friends and heirs to teach them to shoot without fear of recoil. For that, it's worth all the trouble keeping them running.

Last edited by Neumann; 09-09-2016 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:11 PM
captainwayne captainwayne is offline
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This sounds like a doable solution. Thank you!!
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:17 PM
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Default Reaming

My NIB 617 would only fire around 50 rds before locking up. Action would become very stiff, very dirty, failure to eject smoothly. One cylinder was horribly out of spec vs. the SAMMI reamer and would not fully seat a .22lr without mashing it in, the others were just cleaned up.

- I am not a good smith but the reaming job was very easy to do.

- After reaming, I could complete a range session with several hundred rds
and all was good. Action would not lock up, rounds would insert and eject
smoothly.

- I installed various spring configurations but have not got the magic lb spring combo yet so Its all back to stock except for the home action job.

- gained some good experience doing the reaming and now will do it on my various other pistols (686, Ruger Bisley, 586, 60-10)

* I attempted just a honing polishing of the cylinders using the Flex-Hone Pistol Cylinder Hone 38 Special 357 Mag 800 Grit 800 and 400 grit on my 60-10 but honestly...I believe if the cases stick...you might as well ream and not waste time on trying to hone. The hone is just to clean up a bit, I think the honing helped more with reducing powder residue build up in cylinders than anything else.

*Do it after you get the pistol back to ensure they went through their checks.

Last edited by buckyjames1; 12-27-2016 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthumbs View Post
Oh and I forgot, you'll never get a 22 trigger anywhere close to a 686, no matter what version, rimfire and centerfire are 2 different worlds when it comes to triggers.
Exact same internals. No reason you can't have superb triggers on either model.
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunger View Post
Just my opinion , but it would go back. It is a new expensive revolver. Under warranty. Your should not have to fix your self.

I bought a 617 around 6 months ago, with different issues. Canted barrel , could not adjust sights to center.

I sent it back. They fixed the barrel,replaced rear sight even sent me the original. I swear they did something to smooth the action and trigger. All at no cost.
Could not agree more, that is an expensive new wheel gun. It should be perfect and S&W should make it right without you fiddling or shooting 1800 rounds of ammo at what 10 cents a round. Just my 2 cents, but it seems like just common sense to me.
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:28 PM
Capttjk1 Capttjk1 is offline
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I made the mistake of getting the new Ruger GP100 in .22LR. Gun had so many mechanical problems, Ruger decided to scrap it when I sent it in for repair. They replaced the firearm with a new revolver of a different model at my request. I still wanted to get a full size revolver in .22 so I got the 617 that I should have bought in the first place. What a high quality weapon. So far it has been extremely reliable and extremely accurate. As a fan of S&W revolvers and owning 20+ of them, I don't know what possessed me to buy the GP100 in the first place!

Send your 617 into S&W for warranty repair. They will make it right.

Last edited by Capttjk1; 09-14-2016 at 07:29 AM.
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  #37  
Old 09-15-2016, 07:27 AM
captainwayne captainwayne is offline
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This is my first experience with the forum, and I want to thank everyone for their input.
It's great to have everything from weekend shooters to gunsmiths offer solutions.
I'm sending this one back as most recommended.
Thank you all again!
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  #38  
Old 09-18-2016, 11:07 AM
Plinkasaurusrex Plinkasaurusrex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moongoon View Post
One writer is correct about rough chambers cut with worn reamers at the factory. These will typically be on the small end of the tolerance. Put a .22 brush in a power drill and polish each chamber on slow speed with the polishing compound for 5-10 seconds. Swab each chamber clean with your Hoppe's or whatever, then once more time with the polish, and swab. This is the safest way to smooth up the chambers and will fix that kind of problem 95% of the time. A common problem with .22 revolvers, even brand new ones. For the other 5%, unless you are a skilled gunsmith, you should forget trying to use a chamber reamer yourself and risk damaging your nice revolver. send it back to the factory.
I have had significant problems with extraction requiring hitting the extractor rod of my model 17 with a small hammer or on the range bench.

I tried this procedure yesterday. I can't believe how much crud came out with polishing and recleaning. I went through the process three times before the cylinders swabbed clean. I used a .243 bore brush and Mothers Mag.

I can't wait to take it to the range in the next few days.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:43 PM
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The OP purchased the 617 from Gallery of Guns which means that it comes with Davidson's lifetime guarantee. All that is necessary is to contact Davidson's and arrange to send it back for a new replacement 617.
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Old 09-18-2016, 04:13 PM
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Mine is back at S&W right now waiting to be fixed for failure to fire issues due to light strikes. I probably averaged 2 misfires out of every hundred, with various types of ammo, which is unacceptable in my view. My dealer sent it back to S&W last week. Everything else about the revolver was fantastic. It is super accurate, has great trigger, handles and shot smooth as silk and spent cases were easy to extract even after shooting a lot. It was pretty disappointing to sent a brand new gun back for repair, to say the least. I hope to get it back soon.
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Old 09-18-2016, 06:25 PM
flyrodquy flyrodquy is offline
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had the same problem with my 617. Out of 10 shots, had at least 4 FTF. called customer service and they sent me a return label, etc. After a quick turn around, I went back to the range and still had trouble with 2-3 FTF. Sent it back again, after 3 weeks it came back and is now working like a charm. Mine is temperamental and likes CCI and Federal. No problems getting the spent shells out either.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flyrodquy View Post
had the same problem with my 617. Out of 10 shots, had at least 4 FTF. called customer service and they sent me a return label, etc. After a quick turn around, I went back to the range and still had trouble with 2-3 FTF. Sent it back again, after 3 weeks it came back and is now working like a charm. Mine is temperamental and likes CCI and Federal. No problems getting the spent shells out either.
The only thing worse than sending a new gun in for warranty repair would be having to send it in a second time. I find that outrageous. A gun as expensive as a 617 should be excellent right out of the box.
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Old 09-18-2016, 07:30 PM
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I never had any problem with my new sw 617. the ammo i have seems stuck in the cylinder sometime but that really is the ****ty ammo i used. well, the reason i bought the revolver 22lr is to use cheap ****ty ammo.
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  #44  
Old 09-20-2016, 11:01 AM
Plinkasaurusrex Plinkasaurusrex is offline
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Originally Posted by Plinkasaurusrex View Post
I have had significant problems with extraction requiring hitting the extractor rod of my model 17 with a small hammer or on the range bench.

I tried this procedure yesterday. I can't believe how much crud came out with polishing and recleaning. I went through the process three times before the cylinders swabbed clean. I used a .243 bore brush and Mothers Mag.

I can't wait to take it to the range in the next few days.
100 rounds yesterday with no extraction problems, but it was starting to tighten up toward the end. A noticeable circumferential line of powder residue began to form almost immediately. I think I'll bring a bore snake or brush to the range in the future.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:03 PM
flyrodquy flyrodquy is offline
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My 617-6 was only firing 6 out of 10. used different ammo and it did not change, although CCI mini mags were the the best so far. Sent it back to S&W and it cam back rather quickly. Went to the range and after 100 rounds, back to only 2 rounds not firing. Sent it back a second time and came back within 3 weeks, finally hitting on all 10 rounds. Now my problem is that the revolver shoots very high and I cant adjust that back sight. Sent it back today, hope they fix it soon.
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  #46  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:57 AM
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Keep in mind that some misfires are the result of not pushing the round fully into the chamber. With tight chambers you may think they are fully inserted, but often need an additional push. My "yardstick" for when a cylinder needs to be reamed is when you can't fully extract the cylinder-full with just your thumb. If you have to use two hands to empty the cylinder it isn't clean enough.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:51 AM
Boudiepitbull Boudiepitbull is offline
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I ran several thousand rounds thru my 617 very quickly after first getting it. I've probably had less than 5 or 6 FTF rounds. I find if I use speedloaders and shoot 200-300 rounds very quickly, not only is the residue from shooting lots of dirty cheap ammo increasing the drag I feel pushing on the extractor, heat build up is also becomes a factor. It gets hot and if I let the gun have a chance to cool down a bit the empties begin to extract easily again even when it's gotten very dirty. That's not to say your gun doesn't have an issue that requires reaming or polishing. Mine has been pretty flawless and maybe I've just been lucky with the individual unit I received. Needless to say, along with dirt and junk interfering with function, heat will make metal expand.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:25 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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I have to guess that S&W made some internal dimensional changes to the 617 cylinder when they went to 10-shot capacity for I've never had a moment's difficulty extracting empty cases or with FTFs with either of my six-shot no-dash 617s.

I realize that six empty cases would require less effort to extract than 10 and I've only ever used CCI MiniMags in my guns but all these comments about those problems has me wondering if something wasn't changed aside from the number of chambers.

Ed
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:23 PM
buckyjames1 buckyjames1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by series guy View Post
Exact same internals. No reason you can't have superb triggers on either model.
Not the same exact internals.
617 vs 586 vs 686: the 586 responded better to a self action job than did the 686,
different steels responded differently. The regular steel vs the stainless steel is different. I rate my 586 steel with an action job better than the exact same action job on my stainless 686. And I rate both the 586 and 686 better than the same action job done on the 617.

Whether its over all gun weights, cylinder weights, hand weights or whatever...there is a difference. Nothing is the same on different models and especially different calibers!

These results were based on actions slicked up by my own hands, maybe...just maybe I was better one day vs. the other?...perhaps... but the 586 feels the better overall than all the others

*the hand as well as cylinder are different, and to add to that...the hand is even different from a 6 shot vs a 10 shot 617...Too many differences to say "its all the same".

Last edited by buckyjames1; 10-09-2016 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:48 AM
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Invictus357 Invictus357 is offline
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A shame you didn't wait to post about this until after Smith had at least looked at it.
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