I have two 686's, a 686-3 and a 686-4 which I use for competition target shooting.

I purchased the -3 recently as I much prefer the sights to those on the -4 and as it was such a nice firearm which has had very little use over the years (i.e. next to none - with no visible fire-cutting on the top strap at all).

I've had the triggers done on both firearms by my preferred gunsmith in Brisbane (KG Customs) to suit competition shooting and am very happy with the work, however on the -3 I feel that the "lock up" (for want of a better description) between the first and second stage is somewhat variable on two cylinders...

Is that at all possible?

What I mean is, on four cylinders when pulling the trigger back I can clearly feel the hammer click and hold prior to the second stage release - i.e. so that I can pause very briefly and steady again on target before letting the hammer fall.

But on two cylinders it seems that the action is less defined and the hammer is more inclined to come back through both stages more seamlessly and fall without me finding that second stage.

It does seem to be on an even cycle of 4 then 2, rather than a random cycle, so I'm "thinking" it is two particular cylinders.....again, is that actually possible with this firearm?

I really don't know the mechanics of the revolver well enough yet to understand how or why this may seem to be particular to two cylinders, so I'd be very interested in opinions and advice as to whether what I describe is a common issue, whether there is a fix....or whether perhaps it may just be me and that I'm dreaming up any variation in the action.....

Thoughts?

You probably have a very tight lockup from the new trigger work. The hand slides up the star in the final stage of the trigger pull (or cocking action). One or two points of the star are probably filed less than the others. This should improve after a breakin period, possible a lot of dry firing. If not, it is easy for a skilled smith to tune.

I had a new 625 PC with the same "problem." Very tight action, but a little too much of a good thing. After the hand shaved a little metal from the tight stars (with some shavings), all is good.

Thanks Neumann, Ken at KG Custom did day it may be a little tight for a while while it wears in and I guess this may be part of what he was referring to. I'll have a close look at the star and hand arrangement ....and keep wearing it in.

Here's a shot of the star.

I wouldn't say the "lugs" all look uniform - partly a product of the iPhone photo itself and the lighting, but some lugs look slightly rounded in some corners compared to others and there's a tiny bit of a burr on the lug at 1200.

But when you talk about shaving (or dressing) the tight stars Neumann, what do you think would be the problem area - or which area/face would the gun smith be working on?



and for the sake of completeness - here's the gun. Rightly or wrongly I also had it bead blasted when I got the trigger done, mostly to try it as an alternative option to remove a couple of scratches on the chamber that looked like it had been dropped at some stage, but I quite like the finish - (though to be honest I'm really not sure that I've done the right thing by the gun or future owners in doing so).

It was a VERY good buy, the extras that came with it (real leather holster, 6 x speed loaders, ammo, brass, suede revolver wallet, extra grips....added up to the value of what I paid for the gun.

The lockup of the action in DA seems "variable" because the interface between the ratchets and the hand on each chamber is not the same. Two of the ratchets on your extractor have been fit shorter.....these are the ones you don't feel resistance from at the end of the DA cycle.
The important thing is that each chamber in the cylinder "carrys up" fully each time the action is cycled.....ideally, and if the ratchets are fit properly, this point of final lock up should be about the same on each chamber.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

"What I mean is, on four cylinders when pulling the trigger back I can clearly feel the hammer click and hold prior to the second stage release - i.e. so that I can pause very briefly and steady again on target before letting the hammer fall."


Respectfully suggest some quality revolver lessons from a qualified instructor are in order. Also, if you get the urge to "fix" the ratchets yourself, take two aspirin and lie down until the urge goes away.

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Science plus Art

The clicks you hear and feel in double action aren't actually the hammer, they are the cylinder stop being released by the trigger and then the stop falling into the notches on the cylinder. The studs on the star are what makes the timing difference between the Chambers. So what armorer951 says is accurate. Lockup is different on those 2 because of the ratchet therefore causing a different feel in the trigger.

Larks: That is a pretty common affliction on Smith double action revolvers. It is difficult to get 100% consistency on all 6 chambers. The fix is to replace your current hand with one a bit wider, say .001 or .002 so that those two "late" chambers are what you want, then you will most likely have to file the remaining four chambers to the exact feel that you have now established with those two previously late ones. You will want to have this done by a good Smith smith. It is not an easy task and delicate.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Thanks armorer, much appreciated.

Thanks Richard, I reckon I'll drop it back in to my gunsmith over Christmas and get him to do just that.

And thanks for the advice all, very much appreciated.

hmmm, just wondering why you might think that? I can understand perhaps requiring lessons in articulating my description of the issue better, but am left to wonder why you might think I need revolver lessons......?

"i.e. so that I can pause very briefly and steady again on target before letting the hammer fall."


This is poor technique and encourages jerking the trigger.
What is currently taught is:
Press the trigger to the rear in a smooth continuous motion without disturbing sight alignment. Don't apply in a start-and-stop manner. You should not be able to predict the exact instant the gun will fire. Maintain sight alignment in follow through until after the bullet has left the barrel.


Quote from NRA Instructor's Manual

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Science plus Art

I'd suggest that the "poor technique" is a subjective opinion of your own, Jerry Miculek advises differently in regards to "staging the trigger" and I kinda respect his opinion on the subject.


Like I said, perhaps it's my articulation that needs instruction, (I am always learning and always willing to learn more, but my scores at the range kinda suggest to me that my trigger technique isn't such a problem).

This is probably good advice for most "crunch'n clickers" and various semi-auto handguns. Shotguns and rifles -- absolutely. Fine double action revolves, like the OP's, can benefit from the technique of staging the trigger. Even then, it's one way, not the only way, and not appropriate for certain types of shooting.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~