One should checkout "gunblast" chronograph results and "mousegun addict" chronograph results as well as their comments on 9mm lcr...one will begin to question what they believe about the subject....modern powders have changed the rules for snubbies......

As I leave the house today, I have my Model 60 .357 in it's inside waist band soft holster. My "t" shirt covers it completely. I wear shorts.
Just and un-assuming old fart going shopping at Sam's Club.
The first round is a .357 mag, followed by four 38 Special hollow points.
In my shorts left pocket is a 5 round strip loader.
I am comfortable with my decision.
The adrenaline load one gets during an unexpected event like a cashier holdup or a parking lot car hijack does cause one's own reactions to be limited if he or she has not worked in the Law Enforcement duties.
It is hard to practice this unless one has a shooting range close by that has this type of course available.
This is where going to a shooting range as often as you can and firing your daily carry arm.
So, if you can,stop at a range after work and fire off some rounds.
Familiarity counts!

A 38 j frame with 135gr Speer gold dot short barrel is a perfectly adequate carry gun with real life and gel ballistic data to back it up.

No need to go to 9mm imho.

This needn't be thought out and analyzed to the point of unhealthy obsession. Pick a chambering, 9mm, .38 Special, or what have you. Try several non-full metal jacket defense type ammos, standard pressure or +P if you wish, in a bullet weight that will shoot to point of aim or very close to it at 25 yards.

The ammo that shoots where it should and provides the tightest group offhand at 25 yards is the right pick. Its important to remember that before all the sophisticated ammo arrived on the scene, the cops for decades used the lowly .38 Special lead round nose standard pressure cartridge to end the careers of many criminals. Better to hit with a boring load than miss with the latest exotic round that's the rage with the Internet goobers.

Consider recovery time from recoil as well as muzzle flash and blast. These factors can prevent an unskilled shooter from hitting what he aims at, and make it difficult even for a semi-skilled shooter to do well.

Learn to shoot and practice a lot, particularly if you're shooting a snubnose gun. You can practice closer than 25 yards, but that tends to hide your faults and makes you look better than you are. I realize the deadly force amateur theorists claim you will be indicted automatically if you defend yourself from such an incredibly long distance. If you learn to shoot well at 25 yards, shooting at closer distances becomes a very easy task and need be done only to verify point of impact. A poor shooter with an inaccurate gun and sorry ammunition can shoot a good group at five or ten yards.

Handloads equal out the two as far as power. I use 138 grain wadcutters at 900fps out of a two inch barrel. That is 9mm performance, since almost all of the bullet is in the case it uses less powder than a longer OAL, which translates into less muzzle blast. Initial kick is strong, but rubber grips soak it up. If you want to use lighter HP bullets the case can be trimmed to 19mm. I trim cases to 23mm to get a light load 105 grain at 800fps with minimal recoil, and almost no muzzle blast.

A few decades ago IIRC correctly federal made a rimmed 9mm, but it was dropped because some numpties used it in 38 S&W revolvers.

One of the reasons semi autos work so well is they throw slightly lighter bullets very fast with less powder. That comes out to less muzzle flash, which increases muzzle flip. So instead of getting the muzzle rise of a revolver it is more of a solid kick to the arm.

A 9mm will have more energy than a 38, but less recoil than a 357. IMO it is more controllable. I do not have a 9mm revolver, but do have a 625, and a CA .40 Pitbull. The pitbull is manageable with standard loads. Much more than a 357, and from the figures I have seen outperforms the 357 in a short barrel.

If Smith, or Ruger decides to make a 10mm revolver I will be jumping on it fast.

.38 sp, it was good enough for Joe Friday it is good enough for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Loading up a .38 with Gold Dots is definetly going out well armed.

My J frame carry round is Winchester Ranger (Bonded) RA38B - 130gr +P JHP

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642-1, M&P15 TS

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Mn***Bo.jpg[/img]

Not a J frame but still small enough for concealed carry. The K frame is heavy but that helps with accurate sustained fire.

I like that the 9mm revolver uses the same round as my semi-autos and power out of the 3" barrel is adequate for self defense.

I also have a 340 Pro Series that I carry with 38 +p's and speed strips with .357's. I've tried moon clips in the 340 but don't like them. To bulky in the pocket and prone to bending.

For revolvers, even though I carry at least one speed strip, I greatly prefer a NY reload, going to a back-up gun is far faster than fumbling with speed strips or moon clips.

digiroc

Smith & Wesson Model 610 was chambered for the 10mm.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

My only J frame is a model 37 '68 vintage 1 7/8 barrel round butt. I have never shot anything but standard pressure LRN factory ammo in it because of the alloy frame. It has the original numbered grips and is a pleasure to shoot with these rounds. Kind of like an acoustic guitar in the sense that if you have a guitar that sounds good you will want to keep on playing it till you play better. These standard pressure round make me want to shoot a lot and I have improved over time a lot. I think that in a self defense situation those round nosed lead bullets would seriously change a bad guy's plans if not worse Heaven forbid. If I had the same sized gun that was +P rated, I think I'd still shoot these. I actually shoot that 37 more accurately at 7 yards than I do my 4" 65-4 with 357's. At least more consistent. Don't really want no 9mm.
Peace,
Gordon

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better have that checked

While i would say that being accurate with a reliable gun is most important the modern fast burning powders make the 9mm outperform the 357 in a snubby with less than 2 inches of barrel with less recoil, blast, and flash....said it before , look at gunblast or pocket guns and gear/mousegun addict,. and see the chronograph results for yourself...9mm from buffalo bore and underwood will best 357 in the same weights...dont let antiquated snubby ballistics and rhetoric keep you from believing the numbers...so Smith, if your listening, need the m&p 340 in 9mm just like ruger's lcr, only in the lighter 340...

Yes, but they then dropped production. A gunsmith will still convert a Smith, or a Ruger to 10mm, but I would prefer a factory model, that I can afford.

I have three titanium cylindered 637-2 J-frames.
Each has two titanium cylinders, one in 38/357, the other in 9mm.
For me, carrying the 9mm cylinders is more convenient and 9mm power is sufficient.
147gr jhp at 946 fps for 292 ft-lbs.

I have zero experience with 9mm but I wouldn't want to get shot by a 9mm, .38 SP +P or a .357 Mag.





I carry my 642-1 the vast majority of the time. Being under 1 lb empty its easy to forget its even there and loaded with 129 grain .38 Special +P Hydra-Shok its going to leave a mark.




And these speed strips are really easy to carry in your pocket.




I sometimes carry my 640-1 .357. I don't find it "brutal" like some folks do. I actually find it a blast to shoot.

When I got my 642-1 'pro', cut for .38 moon clips, I also got a pawn shop 642-1, bit yucky, as my practice gun. I also have aluminum fake gun of the same style for practice at home (it cannot fire thus no chance of an accident in the house.)

I reload 158s and shoot that practice gun weekly. Shoot one handed, two, hip shoot, shoot left, right, pivots, etc... I shoot like I was shooting for my life.

THEN I carry my 642 Pro as needed (along with a Glock 26 or 43... just depending on attire.)

I use the 130-135 gr JHPs. Gold dot or Winchester or Federal. I do not lose any sleep over which one. All do well in short barrels and they shoot where the sights look.

Skill at arms is 10x more important than just exactly what you are carrying.

Just get a good load and a practice gun to shoot!!

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Deaf

Unless I had access to large quantities of 9mm ammo, I can't see the reason for having a 9mm revolver.

I saw the Busch carton then looked at your location - and saw you are from Missouri. It figures.

I personally think the 357 mag out of a snub is far superior to any 38 or 38+P out of a snub, If you look at lucky gunner web site they test many rounds in 38+P and 357 mag out of a 2" and a 4". Lucky gunner does a great job with ballistics. I understand the "follow-Up" shot might be a little slower I'll give up the 1/2 second slower follow up shot with my 340PD to get the ballistics of the 357 mag. I also believe you do not loose a lot in accuracy if at all.
again just my 2 cents

I do not do scientific tests of various loads with various handguns. I read articles from everyone who seems to have expertise. I also have some experience seeing men shot with various calibers and with wildly unpredictable results. This has lead me to the totally unsubstantiated, non-scientific belief that with modern premium personal defense ammo, out of a short barrel revolver, there is currently no meaningful difference in expected outcome between the two calibers. I could be wrong.

I have a Ruger SP101 2.25" 9mm revolver, an LCR 38sp, and until a few weeks ago a Ruger SP101 2.25" 357. I shoot frequently, and often shot the three snubbies on back to back days, usually shooting 38 ammo in the .357. I shot +P defense loads, training loads, and handloads of various types in all three revolvers.

I carried any one of the three on a daily basis, now only one of the two, and I feel equally well armed with any of them. I do not worry much about a need to reload as a civilian, but if I did, I would go with the 38. Nothing really wrong with moon clips, I just don't care for them much.

I should add, for a lot of reasons, many subjective, I am just a big fan of the 38 Special.

.38 sp. ( no +p needed.) Big old 158 grain chunk of lead.

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John

I'd take .38 Special over 9mm or .357 Magnum J or D frame sized revolvers any day of the week. I also like .38 only mid size revolvers as well. No moonclips to mess with and a hot .38 load offers solid performance with less recoil, noise, and muzzle flash of higher pressure rounds. A nice "push" style speedloader, like the Safariland Comp I/II, can also provide quick reloads with practice.

As popular as the .38 Special once was, it gets treated like a second class citizen today. The big three, (Remington, Federal, and Winchester), do not load the old .38 to its full potential (even under conservative modern SAAMI specs). There seems to be a much larger gap between the performance of boutique loads, compared to off the shelf stuff, in .38 than in 9mm or .357 Magnum. A look at some of the Buffalo Bore offerings can provide a good example of what the old .38 is still capable of. A 158 grain bullet traveling at 850-900 fps from a snub or 900 - 1,000 fps from a four incher will do just about anything I need a handgun to accomplish. The humble .38 wadcutter is also a great choice for those that are recoil sensitive.

so many good replies from ALOT of years of experience, Love this forum

I shoot 147gr 9mm in my three airweight J-frames.
Avg about 950 fps for about 295 ft-lbs muzzle energy. No problems so far with bullet creep.

The only reason I bought my 940 is because my service pistol at the time was 9mm (and I carried it as my backup weapon). Now that I’m retired I carry my 442-2.

During my career doing security and other stuff when I had to carry a revolver, I started with the .38 special and since retired still carrying either a older model 10 or a m64. all 6 revolvers in 2,3,and 4 inch barrels and in .38 that I love.

As a bullet caster and reloader, 38 is cheap and having at least a few thousand cases makes it easy to duplicate carry ammo or light plinkers for others to practice with. My 36 is a 2" bbl gun so I cannot expect much expansion with light weight bullets depending on velocity. I go old school 158 gr or handloads 160 gr wide flat nose if I don't expect 2 legged creatures to be the reason to carry.

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Front sight and squeeze

Groo here
Larry from Powell???????
Charter arms makes a snub 9mm that is clipless.
A lot depends on what you have.
9mm is aviable 38 is easer to reload.
9mm is somewhat faster but 38 can use softer bullets.
If a 9mm you can use a pocket pistol mag for reloads.
For me,, I use 38's in a small revolver format[hp or flat nose]
But in short barrel 9mm [fmj or flatnose ]
and don't count on deformation as speeds will be close to the "no worky"
range...

In a revolver: 38 Special.

In an auto pistol: 9mm Luger.

Everything a 9mm can do, the 38 Special +p can do, but without the hassles of rimless, short cartridges in a revolver.

So 38 all the way.

I love my 9mm 642-1…



Light weight, gives me a weapon light (not a second laser ), and the CT grips are awesome for dry fire practice (I leave them on when carrying, but I’d like to think they might be useful; practice, I confirm zero with the first cylinder… then shut it off… as I rather prepare for them not working). Actually a gun I rarely take off, when I’m not at work.

I did see a few mentions of moonclip issues, even though I didn’t browse the entire necro-thread… but I’ve never had an issue. First off, a good loader/unloader. I personally recommend BMT, as it works great.

Second, find a way to carry the clips. I use the pocket carriers fro Del Fatti (I believe TK has a copy, but zero experience with them).



Keep them in my off pocket, and easier to get the rounds ready to be loaded…



Then…



Going from HKS speedloaders when it was .38, night/day improvement.

I own several J Frame 38-357 Revolvers.
I do not own a 9mm Revolver.
Would be De-Lighted to have a 9mm Revolver,
Without Moon Clips!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Just another old guy's 2 cents worth but Model 36 in 1971, up to Model 60 for stainless feature, then around 2002 to Model 637 for the weight.

American Eagle or Fiocchi 130 gr FMJ as far as I remember, then to Speer Gold Dot 135 gr JHP for carry ammo, extra ammo on 2 Bianchi Speed Strips in pocket (shown with my Model 64)

Plenty of practice. I feel good to go and will continue along these lines. Recoil has always been there and night firing can give you momentary flash blind, but no insurmountable problems that I'm aware of.

Carry in old S&W leather on Galco stiff belt.

OTOH: I really do like my Model 39-2, and my BHP in 9mm, but would not want to carry them around all day. I'll stick with snub wheel S&W's for EDC.

Some good info though in this revived old thread.

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Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

"Anyway, at a 110 fps average I still think it's almost a toss up".

That's true, for the numbers you quoted it's only a 30% difference in energy. Not enough to matter.

I have three airweight 9mm J-frames. So far, knock wood, crimp jump has not been an issue on any of them. I wonder why that is?

An aside - I keep seeing references to 'strong side'. For those of us who don't have a hand preference, how do we apply that??

Am I the only guy that thinks if you need to carry a delicate and bulky speedloader you should be carrying a 8-12 rnd semi?
I am a J frame fanboi. I think 5 well rated 125 grain +p is enough.
Paying hundreds of dollars to convert a 38spl to 9mm for cheaper ammo is a false economy.
Before the pandemic a Ruger EC9s (7+1) could be bought for the price of the conversion.
I’m satisfied with my 442 and 360J with whatever factory 110-125gn +P I can find. I practice with handloaded equivalent.
When I need more firepower it’s my LC9s. Weights less than a steel J frame and carries 3 more rounds. 100% reliable.

Making wayyyyyy too much sense here amigo

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Forum consigliere

I think that a person shot with a light 9 mm or a light 38 special or a 147 gr 9mm or a 158 gr 38 special will not know the difference. The result depend more on the person and their condition, where they are hit, what they are wearing, how they are positioned to shooter, and the phase of the moon than which of these bullets. Where a 158 gr may fail a 110 may work or vice a versa depending on all the above. Just chose which ever gun you prefer and can shoot.

Of course neither of them compare to my 325 with 200gr Gold dots or my new light weight rig a 32 H&R mag J frame.

The important thing is have a gun when you need one and be able to shoot it well

"Paying hundreds of dollars to convert a 38spl to 9mm for cheaper ammo is a false economy".

What does economy or cheaper ammo have to do with it?

I'd personally stick with .38 Spl +P. I'm not a fan of the metal clips. Especially when you consider if you lose or damage one of those clips.

The .38 Spl is plenty good for that size and type of handgun.

We've probably all got 15 or 20 of those clips. If you damage one, chunk it.
I haven't damaged one yet.

I’ll guess the OP has decided by now, but I’ll still offer my thoughts for free (and worth every penny!). Both 9mm & 38Special are proven. So, just look at your own situation with concerns such as legal, medical, money, what’s available, etc.... And be comforted with whichever comes home with you. I’ll likely stay with what I already have and not worry about the difference.

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July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909

I have 50… still using the same 5 for carry that I’ve been using for years.

Somewhere in this thread somebody if not the original poster stated the a availability of cheaper 9mm. And I’ve heard it before. If not that, and the commonality with a semi why would you want a 9mm revolver when 38+p is adequate and 357 is more powerful? I’ve already stated my distaste for speedloaders, bulky to stash and delicate.

I didn’t care much for the .38 years ago but now I have more than I need.
Some just can’t be beat for a carry gun (642/442/640,etc) and the .38 is a reloaders dream.
As to performance? About the same to me. Just a matter of preference.
Revolver? .38

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“Look life in its iron face”

Screwball, what does your 642-1 weigh?
My 9mm 637-2 is 12 5 oz.

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All these threads sort of lump together, so I’ve definitely posted my view before… somewhere.

Ammo commonality was part the reason why I converted. 9mm, .45, .38, and .380 is a lot of different loads to have on hand… even worse with the current times. Being issued a 9mm (Glock 19 MOS) makes it more appealing to stick with the round as much as possible. I have the 642-1, P938, and the LCP (I kept the .380, being you cannot match the size in a 9mm). My .45 was a Glock 30S… but I’ll just toss on the identical sized duty gun if I wanted to run that (biggest issue is my port not allowing us to use weapon lights, being I’m not going to pull it off when working… not to mention, I want it common across the board/training). But in today’s world, all ammo is expensive. If someone really wants cheap ammo… .22 LR or bust.

Chronographing does give you a perspective that does make the case for 9mm. Comparing the two carry loads I used, I was getting pretty much identical velocity… but my 9mm was 147 grain and the .38 +P was 110 grain. I get that some people don’t look at energy numbers… but worked out to about 35% increase in energy. Me, personally… heavier round is superior when other things are equal. A person may not notice the difference, but the glass or whatever other thing the bullet is going thru prior to hitting the threat may very well notice it.

Speedloaders or whatever method of reload you use verses moonclips is going to be personal preference. People will argue their view until the end of time. For me, I shaved a noticeable amount of time off my reload compared to HKS. I like them, and partly the reason I invested in 1917 revolvers (had my C&R for about three years, and just renewed). If I manage to cause a failure with them, I’ll definitely review it… but again, I’m using the same 5 over the past few years of carry (I shoot my carry ammo yearly, and then usually will practice with the same clips… either the same range session or unload and reload my practice ammo on them). Take care of your gear, and it usually will take care of you.

But another thing I’ve never heard brought up, yet it is apparent whenever you look at the rounds side-by-side… is OAL. How many here have shot a cylinder of .38/.357, and had a case or two hang up? Maybe that one round catches between the cylinder and the grip. More so with the Magnums, but the ejector rod on small revolvers isn’t that long when you compare to either of the common revolver rounds. Fired 9mm, granted on a moonclip, clears the cylinder on ejection with plenty of room to spare. Likewise, a loaded moonclip can be easily ejected, as the tops of the rounds (at least my 147 grain Hornady XTP and 115 UMC bulk; latter is “affordable” practice ammo) clear the cylinder when the rod is depressed.

To be honest, I really could not care less if people agree with my firearm choices. Hopefully that doesn’t come off as condescending, being I really do mean it as such. I carry what I feel works for me, and that is my main decision method with any changes to my carry gear. If I see something different, I’ll research it… and if it seems positive, I’ll give it a shot.

I used to always run my duty gun reloads on my weak side, vertically… until I asked an FTO if he liked them on the strong side, horizontal. Switched a week prior to qualifications, practiced with them during that time, and liked it when I started doing reload drills prior to the qualification. I have classmates that say it is stupid, and should only be done during ceremonies (our Class 1 uniform is supposed to be worn that way… but outside of the academy, nobody brings it up if you at least have the pouch).

Again, I’m not telling people that X is better than Y, just what I’ve tried. My posts, take it for exactly what you paid for it. But I did do a little bit of testing, research, and waste of money to get where I’m at. I think I posted it on here (Tapatalk isn’t too fun to search stuff), but you can find a thread I made about different methods of 9mm moonclip carry. I think I tried three or four specific carry methods… and gave the pros/cons of them. I hope that someone may have took a look, maybe saving some money and going with a better decision. But in the end, I’ve done enough research into 9mm J-frames that I’m confident enough in what I got.

And to be crystal clear… no animosity intended towards any member, especially rich5674. Just was the perfect quote to transition into my long winded post.

Unloaded, with the light/laser… 15.5 ounces.

I had both a 9mm LCR and a 9mm SP101. I also had a Brazlian return 1937 in .45ACP. All were good shooters, and I loved the ammo commonality (back when cheap 9mm or .45ACP was a thing...). I was concerned about the ammo jumping crimp, but it never did (only had that happen with factory 45 long colt and .357 in lightweight guns for the calibers).

Eventually the real issue was how absolutely annoying moon clips are. Loading, unloading, and carrying them. I kept wishing I could just dump loose rounds in and go rather than messing with inevitably catching a knuckle or something on a sharp piece of clip or brass, or just wasting the time. The answer to that, as it turns out, is just to use rimmed calibers and be done with it. If .45 auto rim, or a 9mm equivalent, was still readily available then I'd love to stick with one. I find 9mm to be a superior caliber in most applications, but it's not that much better than .38SPL, and in the case of revolvers I guess sometimes we gotta dance with the girl that brung ya.

The things I like best about the moonclips are the quick reloads and the convenience of carry.

I also like that about the Safariland Comp I/II speedloaders. They have proven themselves to be very durable over the last several decades, and were popular in law enforcement during the last stretch of the revolver era. They have given me great service, and it is hard to go back to a "twist" style loader after becoming accustomed to them. For me, a "push" style speedloader is more user friendly than moonclips. I also prefer the .38 Special cartridge over the 9mm.

As with many things, this is a personal preference and someone elses' mileage may vary.

I'm too old and this thread is too long for me to re-read it, so excuse me if this has been said already. I think OP should ask himself if he shoots a lot. My carry gun is usually dirty because I just shot it that day or the day before.

Carry what you shoot, if you can.