I have a 642 and am in need of a woods gun. Mainly for 2 legged animals but coyotes, rabid animals and black bear are a possibility. If I load with +p ammo do you think that's enough? Black bear are normally more scared of you and if they come after you hurting them should make them turn around...what's your opinion? I'd rather not buy a 3" 357 if I don't have to...how hot can I load a 642 with commercial ammo? Buffalo bore?

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I wouldn't go bear hunting with a 38 special, but I wouldn't be worried about anything in my neck of the woods with a good +p 38 special. I often carry a 38 special in pocket in the woods. The odds of a black bear attacking you are very slim as you know. I'd think a couple slugs to the head and/or chest would discourage them pretty quickly.

It's better than a stick but for what you describe I would rather have a .44 mag or a 10mm. I would feel under gunned against a bear with a .38 special.

There, I've given you a reason to buy another gun.

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Mike
686 no dash

642 = urban back up

more than woods defense

woods defense = .357 in a 3-4 inch K-frame IMHO

A 642 wouldn't be a first choice for me.

"Hurting" a black bear isn't much of a plan.

Here in Colorado, I carry a Colt 1911 with hand loaded 200 gr hard cast swc H&G # 68 at around 1,000 fps.

I've shot a fair number of large animals with that and been very happy with the results.

Speed and accuracy with a a handgun is pretty important when dealing with large carnivores as well as with two legged bad guys.

For me, a 1911 is very quick.

It's also plenty for black bear.

If your primary threat is human beings I would not feel undergunned with a 642. But if I had to defend myself against a bear I would want something bigger than that, even a 9mm with more rounds would be preferable.

THE 642 SHOULD HANDLE ANY .38 SPL +P FACTORY AMMO. THE QUESTION IS, HOW ADEQUATE IS THAT ROUND AGAINST A LARGE, AND ANGRY BLACK BEAR, THAT PERCEIVES YOU AS THREATENING HER CUBS (INADVERTENTLY ON YOUR PART, OF COURSE). HURTING HER WILL JUST SOLIDIFY IN HER MIND THAT YOU ARE A SERIOUS THREAT, THAT MUST BE ELIMINATED. HOW MUCH CAN BE GAINED BY SHOOTING A .357 MAGNUM ROUND OUT OF A 3" BARREL ? ? ?

I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A LARGE HEAVY SOLID BULLET THAT CAN SMASH BONE (IN A CALIBER THAT BEGINS WITH A .4) OUT OF A 4" BARREL. MY CHOICE WOULD BE A 4" S&W MOUNTAIN GUN, THAT CAN COMFORTABLY BE CARRIED ALL DAY IN THE FIELD, IN A GOOD SHOULDER RIG--EVEN CONCEALED. EITHER A M629 IN .44 MAG, OR A M625 IN .45 COLT WILL DO THE TRICK. I HAVE ONE OF EACH. BELOW IS AN EXAMPLE......

IMHO, IT IS MUCH BETTER TO BE CARRYING MORE GUN THAN YOU NEED, THAN BE NEEDING MORE GUN THAN YOU ARE CARYING......

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I don't perceive a 2-legged threat here, but I wouldn't want to encounter a black bear with a .38 (not even +P). I haul around a 640 Pro with Barnes 140gr lead free magnums. We also have to consider big kitties and those big canines that were reintroduced into The Park some years back. No griz has been within "reported" within 3 miles of here in the last few years, but....

That's why I picked up a 500 4" and a Simply Rugged Pancake for when I'm out among 'em.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

The 642 is a very popular revolver for several reasons...

As you know it is really light, small, and easy to carry. It also is of an adequate enough caliber to change the mind of a two legged attacker. In an "up close and personal" scenario the heavy trigger, minimalist sights, and short sight radius are quite irrelevant.

Now for an in-the-woods encounter... That two legged threat could be up close, however it potentially might be at some distance from multiple threats. Four legged encounters would preferably be at a distance much greater than arms length. If it comes down to me using a gun, I want to keep that bear, coyote, and rabid critter as far from me as possible. This now makes the 642's really heavy trigger and sight limitations a much more important issue. Also, the increased shooting distances will result in a loss of impact velocity making the somewhat minimalist 38 Special round that much less effective on a dangerous animal.

With that in mind, the 642 would not be my first choice for an in-the-wood carry gun. With it's small size and weight it definitely would be a joy to carry while out hiking. However, it would be a challenge if I needed to make effective hits on a rabid animal scurrying around me at any significant distance. I am not Jerry Miculek and will never pretend to be!

What would I carry? You will hear everyone chime in with their favorites and why. Some are happy with a 22LR and others will settle with nothing less than an 88 Magnum. Realistically, if not in "big bear" country your standard EDC handgun will likely be more than adequate. You will already have a carry system for it and are hopefully at some level of proficiency.

What if your EDC is a 642, is it still adequate? It definitely would not be my first choice. If all you have is a 642 then carry it. Just have a good understanding of it's capabilities, limitations, and your ability to shoot it.

Edmo

Johnny Dangerously - It's an 88 Magnum - HD - YouTube

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

Don't forget that miscreants who make illegal drugs run in packs, often in the woods, so a bear may not be your only worry. A "pack" of wild animals or miscreants may be a real possibility.

This job calls for a 10mm, such as the high capacity of a Glock 20. If you use a 38 Special, the Buffalo Bore "Outdoorsman" load is a remake of the old 38/44 load, and will do nicely for any job for which a heavy hit with deep penetration is required. It is also safe in the Airweight 642.

So, while I still vote for a Glock 20, or a 44 Magnum revolver, if you are comfortable with a 38 Special, the aforementioned Buffalo Bore 38/44 load will be your best bet.

I have fired some Buffalo Bore +P 158 HP's in my 642....ONE TIME, I also Have their Outdoorsman Load in 38 and Underwood 158 Keith load and i have fired them in my GP100, those may fire in a 642 but i know i can't hit the barn after the first one, pretty much a low-mid 357.

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Chewy

All great information fellas, thank you.

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Morning a_finelli

A well placed shot or two from a 642 (with good +p round)
will usually kill any of the things that you have mentioned.

The unfortunate thing is how long would it take to kill any
of the mentioned?

I does no good to shoot a black bear, or 2 legged threat, etc
but have them remain alive long enough to kill you before
dying (a very possible outcome with a .38 round with any
bullet design)

To feel totally secure you need a gun & round that will not
only kill your threat but will also STOP that threat before it
can harm you before dying.

A Glock 29 10mm or Sig P239 .40 S&W are my favorite guns to carry hiking in the north Georgia mountains. Around the house I usually wear a 3" S&W 65-3 or 65-5.




This was my first dedicated carry gun for use in the mountains, purchased for my F-I-L to carry around the mountain house. He thought it was too heavy and would lay it on the deck rail. He passed away a few months later and I brought this home. A S&W 58 is a great woods gun if you do not mind the weight.


Whether wild animal or wild human, carry enough gun to stop the threat before it reaches you.

Whether bears or humans it is shot placement that counts. I would
much rather be able to place very accurate .38 Spl. shots than miss
with the big boomers. .38 Spl. is adequate for big black bear. I've
been there and done that.

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In Omnia Paratus

Remove bears from the equation. I have no experience. If I had a 642. If I didn't have the means to buy anything else. If the 642 meant I would always have a gun. I would load it with either 158 lswc or 148 full wadcutters. Both of these round have less recoil than many of the mentioned loads. Both can be fired accurately even from a snub. Both of these can be found relatively inexpensive so you could practice regularly. Both penetrate and will make holes for blood to leak from. Is a 642 the best woods gun? No is a 642 better than nothing? Yes

a_finelli, you mentioned Buffalo Bore ammo. This is fine ammo, pricey too. One can't pay too much to stay alive though. I buy Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo whenever I run across it.

You don't say where you live. How often do people in your neck of the woods have to take a shot at a bear? If you're just risk managing the worst case scenario (there are bear in the bootheel, but the last one around here got hit with a car, and some people have said it may have been killed a couple counties away and drug onto the highway at night. It's not something we worry about), I'd stick with the 642 and buy some Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense. If people take a shot at a bear more often than, say, once or twice a year, I'd step it up . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yes. A 10mm or .357 Magnum (minimum 4" barrel) would be a much better choice.

In most of the United States, the odds of being attacked by a black bear are extremely small. It's kind of the same argument some make about not carrying a 38 special for self defense, "what if you're attacked by a large group", "what if the attacker has body armor", etc.

I've never killed a black bear with a 38 special, but I've killed a number of them with a bow and arrow and saw a number of folks killing them with 22 magnums. Of course those bears were in trees and not charging, but still a 22 magnum to the head dropped them instantly dead with one shot.

If I was going into an area where I really thought I might be attacked, I wouldn't want a pistol of any caliber. I'd carry a large magnum rifle I've killed eight or ten bears off my own place, but have never worried about being attacked by one.

Speaking of shooting bears - my old Buddy Milt shot one with his Colt Trooper 357.
The bear was treed and he shot it multiple times, I think 3-4.
The problem was the Winchester Silver Tips he was shooting did not penetrate.
That was up on the Jicarilla Reservation up in North NM.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I'm in northern New York, Adirondacks...definitely black bear here but rarely seen unless your near a dump. I don't know of a single attack in the area, a couple encounters with mama's and cubs from time to time but usually just posturing. I've hunted for years and only seen one beat and it split as soon as we locked eyes...there not aggressive here at all and all the encounters I've heard a little yelling and fighting back does the trick so that's why I considered the 38. I have a large 357 that would be plenty but it's very heavy and I want something small for hiking

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Afternoon a_finelli

Lot of Black Bears in my state (upstate anyhow) so there
have a been a few reported bear injuries (no deaths that
I personally know of anyhow)

Over the years I have had a couple of close encounters
(black bear within my 15 meter circle with me on the ground).
As you mentioned they are usually more afraid of me than I am
of them (fortunately).

But! it just takes one irritated bear, or mother protecting a cub,
or hungry bear that thinks you are after it's food source.

I do a lot of back country dirt biking with camping at remote
locations so bear encounters are an ever present possibility.

My favorite back country carry gun is a Glock 29 (10mm) with
Underwood ammo. Not too awfully heavy, easy to carry all day
(even when riding a motorcycle off-road) & has enough power
to handle most back country problems. The Glock is also not
very expensive so I can beat & bang on it without trashing an
expensive gun.

I've spent a lot of time in that area in years past (before moving from NY.)

Mostly went in from Keene Valley up to the Slant Rock lean-to in both winter and milder climes. My love of the area is the reason I moved where I have in the mountains of NC. (With somewhat less snow and frigid temperatures, ordinarily.)

Have had many bear encounters up there but never a hostile one. Unless you count the one that went into my camp, climbed a tree, cut the paracord to dump my food and supplies, and took off with everything but a bottle of bourbon and some chili sauce. (Smart bear. )

I tracked him the next day to see what I could recover but he punctured everything he couldn't consume.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

We had one come into our camp in Indian lake, yelled and it took off.

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This one just flipped us the bird and went on about its business.
Couldn't care less how we tried to divert it from its task.

Up in Algonquin Park I saw one enter the tent of a newlywed couple out camping on their honeymoon. You never heard such holy hell. I had to paddle across to their site and get them out of there.

Bear came back as I was getting some of their belongings into my canoe. I have a blurry shot of the bear somewhere in one of my albums.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

If you have the desire and the funds to purchase a gun for hiking, a lightly used .40 S&W such as a Glock 27, Shield, Sig P250sc would be easy to tote and inexpensive enough to use without worrying about it.

Several years ago a guy I knew had a job of taking care of unwanted varmints and pests around the city.
One day he had a run in with a feral collie. He wasn't very impressed with the performance of the 38 special.
Neither was the collie.

Don't remember what load he was using, but the firearm was a 4" K frame.

A 2" 38+P is fine in my Woods. There is nothing there that's bigger or nuttier than me.

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Two Handguns every day

You better bring your lunch, and a box of ammo!

Absolutely do not rely on a 642 for black bear! Black bear are one of the most aggressive toward humans.

I would recomend a .44 Magnum, with a 4" barrel as the minimum.

I grew up and have lived in Black Bear country most all of my life. Started walkin' in and outta the woods in darkness with nuttin' but a bow since I was 12 years old. Back when I was 12 it was a 35# recurve with wooden arrows. Even then I did not feel threatened by black bear and in the need of a hand cannon to be safe. More times than I can remember, the only thing I saw of a black bear within sight, was it's backside as it was running away. This with nuttin', but the sound of footsteps to scare it away. Black Bear where they are regularly hunted live in fear of humans. Black Bear that are regularly fed by humans and have lost their fear can be dangerous. This is generally close to human habitation and not far out in the woods. IOWs, you are more at risk in your back yard from Black bears than in the woods. Any .38 with loads capable of some penetration on bear size animals is sufficient. While not the first choice for hunting, for defense against them, the sound of the first shot will generally put them running. For a few exceptions and scenarios, the .38 will do all you need it to. With 158 JSPs/hardcast going 750-800 fps, any black bear at point blank range will probably be deterred. Those few that aren't, ain't gonna be stopped with a .44.

Here's the trick for carrying a 642 in bear country: always go with a friend. That way if a bear attacks, pull out the 642 and shoot your friend in the foot and then run like He!!.

Just like buck460XVR said, In the 38- bear scenario, I also prefer a heavy solid bullet.
My top choice would be a set of Howdah Pistols.
70 caliber, and +P.
They absolutely have to be +P!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I have a 3in Model 65 that I load with Buffalo Bore hard cast 180gr .357 when I want a deep woods gun. Best combination of size, weight and power for me.

Threads like these always bring out the worst-case-scenario folks. What if you run into a platoon of cartel hitmen armed with AK's? What if you run into an escaped circus elephant? What if the black bear is wearing a bullet-proof vest he took off a park ranger whom he ate yesterday?

I've lived in a region of the country with a very high black bear density for several decades. For health reasons, my days of cavorting in the woods are over, but for many years I carried another variant of the gun you're considering as my outdoor gun, a 649 in .357. It was the perfect package for that purpose.

When being out and about with multiple people, I usually left my EDC ammo in the gun, .38 +P hollow points. In a group, the chance of running into a bear or cougar are less than zero. When I was out by myself, I used to move quietly because I actually liked running into wildlife and maybe getting some pictures; on those occasions, where the chance of a close surprise encounter was a bit elevated, I loaded the 649 with Federal hardcast .357 loads. Now those aren't fun to shoot from a snubbie, but accurate and perfectly controllable; and even from the short barrel they punch through skin and heavy bone like a hot knife through butter. We actually tested that with heavy cow bones and skulls at a friend's farm who used to do his own slaughtering.

So I never felt undergunned. Although, the few times I actually managed to catch a glimpse of a black bear in the woods, I must admit I went toward them going for my camera, not the gun, yet never managed more than blurry pictures of fur patches beating a hasty retreat into the bushes.

I live in eastern NC and traipse all over the woods here where world record sized black bear are known to roam. Even if you see one at close range, they will "woof" and bust *** getting out of your vicinity as quickly as possible. 99% of the time I'm in tbe woods I'm carrying a Model 337-1 in .38 Special.

Evening a_finelli;

A few black bear facts, see links below_

Bloodthirsty bear's death makes Wexford County teen 'really happy'


Michigan Hunter Says Attack By ‘Curious’ Black Bear Wasn’t ‘Vicious’ << CBS Detroit


List of fatal bear attacks in North America - Wikipedia

Hold on - I don't have to carry that sissy 642.
I also have a 649 (among others), usually loaded with 38 +P.
I have shot 357 in it.
All of my 357 is old. That includes factory and handloads.
But none of it has failed to fire!
But since we are discussing life or death situations, I will get some new big solid bullet 357.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

A little revolver in .38 would not be my first choice but if you have/want to stick with it then I'd invest in some Buffalo Bore and a few speed loaders/strips.

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Standard Pressure Short Barrel Low Flash Heavy .38 Special Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

38 Special +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Heavy .38 Special +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

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Jorge

Ton of great information, v thank you all !! I'm still mulling it over but I'll throw this at you...I know this is a revolver page but I also have a sd9ve, what do you think about that loaded with buffalo bore? I'll ask over on the other page but if you have anything to add about that I'd love to hear it, thanks !!

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Evening a_finelli

You are a little more limited on bullet choice in the 9mm
BUT 17 rounds of 9mm beats the he!! out of 5 or 6 .38.

A bit heavy but it is a step up.

If you are going to carry a semi auto might as well step
it up to a round that has some power (like a .38 super or
10mm)

I'm trying to stay with what I already have, I don't have $500 for a glock 30 or a ruger sp101, believe me if I did we wouldn't be having this discussion lol. I'm in ny so I'm limited to 10 rd mag but it's better than 5...

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In that case I'd rather pack the 9mm. I use both BB item 24I and 24L in my pistols and they both work great. And I don't feel under-gunned in any way!

Look at here:

NRA Articles - Phil Shoemaker & OUTDOORSMAN

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Jorge

Evening a_finelli

In that case you have your 2 choices to choose from.

You might see if carrying the 9mm semi auto is too
heavy or awkward. If not then find the best penetrating
+P type ammo that will shoot out of that gun without a
malfunction.

Otherwise you have your revolver & a great number
of suggested bullets mentioned in the post above.

Man all this talk over a few ounces or maybe a pound of side-arm,If your a hiker or a "outdoors" man please get the right tool for the jobI help a buddy guide and do a lot of his baiting ,this past season two sport blew a treed Blackbear while treed they didn't get a good shot in to the bruin and he hit the ground charging my buddy while he was holding the hounds back on a single ringhe popped that bear at 5yds with his 460 with one shot DROPPED him in his tracksHere's a pic of that 375lb Maine Blackbear

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Got it Garddog. Your buddy is show nough gunned up.
But the question is - What do you carry?

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

You are about 10 times more likely to get killed by lighting than by a bear.

What is the best lighting gun????

Yes, I always carry a gun when I am in the boondocks. But, bears are not all that high on my list, cougars are even lower. More apt to end up with a stupid moose tangled up in my tent ropes. Actually had one walk right beside my tent once, but no problems. Had an elk run through camp once too. Never know what might happen. LOL

I think the question is not pound- but money related.

If you can't or won't buy a bigger gun then I'd stick with the 9mm with two spare magazines on me while there's more ammo in the Rucksack

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Jorge

It's not that I won't buy one but I just can't right now, I have a family and it takes time to save for a pistol that's all...plus I'm in ny and have to conceal my firearm even in the woods so legally ib have to take that into consideration

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S&W 66.1 IN A .357 Buffalo bore or a SD9VE P+ BUT I've never worried about bear ! PS yer best bet is to run down hill