I like large bores and would like a better woods gun as we are starting to get a few Bears and Mtn Lions in my deer woods

Would like a lighter weight one than my model 13 3" but "there" when you need it in feel and "critter Power"

Anyone have experience with either of the above and your thoughts please

Thanks
Bear

The probability of needing either for bears and mountain lions is slim. However, if you want a light and easy to carry 45 or 44 those sure fit the bill. I have 625s and a 696 which I really like and carry the 696 in the field a lot. That said, I'm looking for both a 325 and a 396 to add to the accumulation.
Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I can only tell you my limited experience with my hands and mindset, and my uninformed opinions about bear guns. You should be aware that threads about bear guns are widely regarded on this forum as a joke.

That said, the 325 kicks, unpleasantly so unless using exactly the right grips, which for me are Hogue rubber finger-groove grips. They are perhaps the lightest and cheapest grips for the 325, and one of the thinnest. VERY, VERY nice grips, if they fit YOU. Recoil is quite reasonable for me using these grips. If I hadn't tried them, I would have sold the revolver as unusable, and I hardly sell guns at all these days. However, .45ACP out of a short barrel, however good an antipersonnel round, is not something I would trust on bear. Then again, perhaps you shouldn't trust ANY pistol round. .44 Magnum, however, is clearly better than .45ACP.

Based on my experience, I would not buy a superlight .44Magnum. A superlight .44 Special would be roughly similar in recoil to the 325, although it might offer slight ballistic advantages. It would really be best if you could try out either one before buying. Either one could turn out to be unusable. OTOH, you might be pleasantly surprised, and both are certainly easy to carry.

Of the three guns mentioned in your post, your Model 13 (with the right .357 ammo) sounds best for the job. IMO, an upgrade would be a 629. Even that bears trying before buying, and finding the right grips.

Thanks for the thoughts so far ....I understand slim encounters chances.. however we have a sow bear living on our farm and have had a Mtn Lion track me twice ....not to mention large coyote packs (never heard of a coyote attack other than a rabid one)...and I go in before daylight and after dark some times...no light both deer and turkey gun and archery hunting going in and out ....so lots of trips in total darkness ...the model 13 with my body shape (no butt) .. the 13 is pull the pants up every 10 steps ...so leaning to the 44 special +P for close up work heavy bullets
I think I am not worried about snappy recoil as I am not looking for a range gun but for sure want to be able to reasonably stay on target on follow up shots

Bear

Mostly good thoughts from above. I shoot both. But for your job requirements I would lean toward towards the .44.

I would tend to agree with the notion of using all the .44 Medicine you can handle with heavy bullets. Be it warm Specials or Magnums lets think of one thing. If in a true danger situation you will probably NOT hear the shot or feel the recoil of the chosen handgun anyway. Your concentration is on your sights and your precious ***.

All the big game I have ever shot (not that much) I do not remember the recoil or the sound of the shot. Now get your adrenaline pumped!!!

Just my two cents. Good luck. You will make the right decisions.

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Vietnam 1969

There is a guide in Alaska named Phil Shumaker, I believe. Both he and his daughter use model 66's loaded with 158gr. hardcast semi-wadcutter bullets at 1250 fps that will penetrate a bears's skull. Both he and Bill Jordan (the famous Border Patrolman/revolver wizard) recommended this over a 44 to give them a better chance of hitting and repeat shots. Buffalo Bore make a .38 special +p load exactly like the above, called "the outdoorsman" designed for what you are looking for. What you need is penetration to the brain or spinal cord to make the stop. The .38/.357 platform, under stress, should allow you better control to do the job. Buffalo Bore also make a .44 special 255 gr hardcast at 1,000fps that I have fired and would use in a 44 revolver. I have a friend of mine that was knocked over by a black bear that kept on "attacking" his hat. that is how he was able to shoot it with his rifle once he got back up. Lucky he said.

Just to let you know sometimes things can put you at risk.
This past year one guy we hunt with was grouse hunting with a 20 gauge 7.5 Bird shot and walked into a field when to Cougars stood up in the weeds. He backed up making noise raising his hands. Did not have a handgun with him...

Second time was when I was Huckleberry picking with my dog, a guy comes down and asked how was I doing but mainly to tell me about the black bear that also was going hunting for the berries.
Put the dog in the truck with the wife and had the S&W .44 Special
safety strap off looking all around as I picked more berries.
It wasn't bear season yet...

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

I have both 325NG & 396NG.

They weight 27oz & 24oz's,

N-frame vs. L-frame,

- and -

6-shot vs. 5-shot, respectively.

The 396NG is smaller & more compact. The 325NG is larger & stronger.

The 44 Spcl. can be uploaded but the relatively thin barrel extension & forcing cone limit it.

The 45ACP, or 45AR, can be loaded to (+P) 23K PSI or even up to 45 Super power in the proper cases.

Because of it's light weight, hi-power loads will jump crimp in 45ACP taper crimped loads.

I prefer Sierra's 240gr JHP, with cannelure, roll crimped in Starline 45 Auto Rim cases (~1100fps) to avoid this. These are best shot with full cushioned grips like the Pachmayr® Compac Custom grips they came with. Otherwise..

Welcome to the Forum!

.

325NG


.

325NG with 45 Super muzzle blast


.

396NG 44 Spcl.


.

396NG bbl. extension


.

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Waiting for the break of day

I wish I had been smart enough to buy a couple of those NightGuards when they came out.

I would buy a Model 329PD, their Scandium 4 inch .44 Magnum. It weighs less (26 ounces) than your Model 13 (31 ounces). Load the first 4 chambers with a good .44 Special round and the next 2 chambers with a good .44 Magnum round. Be it a bad people, a bad bear or a bad mountain lion, 4 good .44 Specials should fix it. If the 4 Specials don't solve your problem, you will be so adrenalin pumped that shooting the 2 Magnums will pretty well not feel like much.

Likke my 696 a lot, love my 396.

I've followed Phil closely as to what gun he carries, because I carry a 629 Mountain gun and that's what Phil carried for many years. The latest information about Phil's side arm is a S&W 329 which he had Magna Ported and a trigger job done for better control. You are right in saying his daughter carries a 357, but I believe you will find Phil carrying his Magna Ported Mountain gun or Magna Ported 329, each with 300gr HC max loadings. Oh, and by the way he shot his last bear with a 9mm loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo. That's a whole other story.

I don't have a 325, but do have a 396 and a 329. Carried the 329 all day everyday for about 8 years in bear and moose country. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As mentioned above, the 396 is a 5 shot L Frame and the 325 (and 329) are both 6 shot N Frames.

Buffalo Bore offers some very stout .44 specials and 45 Auto Rim ammo -- neither of which will be pleasant to shoot from the lightweight gun (they will be effective however) HANDGUN AMMO . As mentioned above, I doubt you will notice the recoil in a high adrenaline dump situation.

My inclination is to recommend the 329 which can be loaded from mild to wild with more power on the wild side. The additional weight will make it a bit more user friendly from both a shootablity and recoil standpoint.

FWIW,

Paul

It's not what you asked, I know, but I'd take Paul105's advice and buy a 329PD. If not, I'd buy the 325 with 4-inch barrel, nothing shorter. The thinnish barrel shank of the older L-frame .44s may not be much of a problem with ordinary factory loads, but it still gives me the creeps.

The 325 PD, with a titanium cylinder, weighs only 25 oz and would have a significant kick. My choice would be the 325 Thunder Ranch, which has a steel cylinder and 4" barrel. At about 35 oz, the recoil would be relatively tame.

I came close to buying the Thunder Ranch version, but picked the 625 PC instead, for the weight, PC trigger and durability. That said, I really like shooting the .357 version with an aluminum/steel frame, the TRR8.

I'm not sure .45 ACP is the best choice for a chance encounter with a large predator of the 4-legged variety. My carry choice is a 3" 629 or M29 Mountain Gun, each about 40 oz. The 25 oz 329PD is reported to be a beast to shoot. I can manage putting a box of .44 Magnums through the "light" steel guns.

Wow ...my head is spinning with very good and constuctive information!!!
How refreshing that all ideas are are good and bare reflective evaluation ..
lots of conflicting thoughts on my part ..like too heavy/big once the newness wears off will I quit carrying it ...forcing cone issues (396) are low on the list as it will not be a range gun ...heavy pill+P 44 Spcl I believe will be OK ...because ...if it ever happens ...in the dark and up close and personal like ..the muzzle blast I figure will be burning critter hair and if one of 5 has not made it home I'm thinking #6 won't make much difference
Then on the other hand the 329PD has some merit and it's weight puts it into consideration ...but size (N) and barrel length (4") are against it...confusion is raging in my feeble mind
Something IS going to get bought ...the last stalking ...a Mtn Lion got my attention (Black bears are second on my "chicken" scale!)..since it was the 2nd time ..Plus a county away last year a bow hunter had a lion stalk him to his tree he had climbed deer hunting and started UP ..kitty ate a broad head stone dead

Keep the thoughts coming fellow shooters ...I really really appreciate it
I think the 325 is out as are the steel offerings(too heavy/no grizzlies)...now I need to see what kind of a "deals" on a 396 or or 329 can be had ..a 2.5 or 3" 329 would be compelling!

Thanks all
Bear

Check into some suspenders along with a good carry belt, to keep your sidearm in place.

Unfortunetly I think a 396NG will be more difficult to find. I believe 325 & 329NGs are the most common.

My 329NG weights (27.75oz) just about a 3/4 oz. more than the 325NG. Both have steel cylinders.

There's a 329PD Backpacker in the WTS section here but (oddly) they are steel cylinders too, if that really matters.

.
PS: I find the factory Pacs more comfortable to shoot full loads with (like on my 325NG above) than the latter ones S&W put on the NGs, like on my 329NG below.

.



.

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Waiting for the break of day

Based on not needing a range gun I'm wondering why you wouldn't be going with an alloy 44 mag? You can always load it with 44 special. On my local site people almost have to give away 329s as they are thought to be the Poster-Boy of Not a Range Gun. I am also under the impression that Mace or the like is what the Canadian Mounties use to stop bears?

Have there been attacks by bear or mountain lions in your area?

__________________
Just hanging with my dogs

Groo here
Are you a reloader, if so a 44 spec is fine.
Are you a magnum shooter, if so the 329 will be fine.
If not, go with the 325 Thunder Ranch.
4 inch 6 shot, 31 oz, moon clip for fast reloads and 45 super capable.
OR a Governor 45acp/45colt/410, 6 shot moon clip in 45acp 30oz.
Both are light ,rust resistant, and can go from mild to [sort of] wild.
If snakes are on the list, the 410 is better than most any revolver shot loads.
The Governor is a good 200 to 300 less $$$ but has fixed sights.
The TR is ACCURATE but only shoots 45acp[and auto rim]
Both use moon clips for acp[buy at Ranch Products in bulk]

This is a nice lightweight trail gun with a lot of punch. Certainly on the lite side for Grizzly country but other wise a super choice. If you were carrying a shot gun or bow with one of these this would make a strong deterrent. jmho

Coach ...are you speaking of 329PDs being priced attractivly locally or 329NGs being available ?

Bear

Frankly, I think either of your choices as defense against black bears with cubs in tow or mountain lions (panthers, pumas, cougar, wild cats, etc) is woefully inadequate. While either is better than a stick, I wouldn't trust them to do the trick. I also have the pants falling down problem. I switched to an external shoulder holster. In your situation, I would choose a 357 magnum as a minimum. Perhaps, my Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special strapped to my ankle as a backup.

__________________
NRA Benefactor

I agree ....but trying to stay away from the "N" platform ...smaller better carrying and using climbing deer stands for example ....and I really would like a less than 4" BBL to clear leather in a close situation !

But it may still be an option as I am not seeing much in the way of a 396NG

Thanks
Bear

I have a 325 NG and it is a great weapon but I wish I could get hold of a 310 NG capability of using both the 40 S&W and 10 mm. By the way, recoil on the 325 NG is minimal, I believe. 329 NG recoil is heavier but you must hold on to the weapon. The factory grips do not feel that great I prefer wood combat grips personally.

Sorry for not being clear, the 329PDs are discounted on my local site, I can't remember seeing a 329NG. I'm not a snubby guy. I had a few J frames which did what they should. I traded a 627 snubbie because a gun that big and heavy shouldn't leave so much velocity on the table due to a short barrel. But what do I know?

Shhhhhhhh.....get a Glock 29. And save a bunch of $$.

__________________
Just hanging with my dogs

Groo here
S&W just posted the M-69 44mag with a 2 3/4 inch barrel 5 shot,
34oz SS L-frame.

These are my fishing/camping companions:
329NG (27.5 oz), 13-2 3" (34.25 oz), 640-1 (23 oz), 629-2 Mountain Revolver (40.5 oz).
Have to admit that I prefer carrying .44 Special and .38+P due to recoil and muzzle flash.
.44 Magnum rounds go in my 29-6 6.5" and 629-3 5", both are Classic Model with full-lug barrel.

Attached Images

	329NG_a.jpg (64.8 KB, 14 views)
	Model 13 3 in and 640-1.jpg (89.9 KB, 14 views)
	Gila's 629 MR_a.jpg (59.9 KB, 14 views)

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

Wow! I didn't know I agreed with Bill Jordan!!!

I think a 44 Special would be fine, too, but I strongly disfavor any 44 Magnum over a .45 Colt or a .357 Magnum in this context. The .44 Magnum might be death on monster, four legged attackers but IMHO you can pour a lot more death into them with any of the other three calibers mentioned, and in a hurry!

Bear threads almost always devolve into humor here, I agree with that statement!!!