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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 01-29-2017, 07:35 AM
Garegaupa Garegaupa is offline
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Hello!

I'm considering buying a second-hand S&W 586 "no dash", but due to the distance between me and the seller I will not be able to examine the gun, but will have to rely on information and pictures supplied by the seller (whom I consider to be trustworthy).

For the requested price, the gun seems to be in good condition. However, there is some damage to two of the "teeth" on the extractor assembly that worries me a bit. See attached image.

The seller says the gun works flawlessly despite of this, and I have no reason to doubt him. But is there any way that this could cause a misfire with the cylinder not properly indexed? Or isn't that something I need to worry about?

And if I have to replace this part, would that be relatively easy for me to do myself (I have relatively good practical and mechanical skills)? What would such a repair cost me (parts only, disregard freight)?

Thanks in advance for any advice, have a nice day!
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:48 AM
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Cant help you with a diagnosis but you should ask the seller if the gun has the letter "M" stamped in the yoke cut,

If not you can send it to S&W for the free hammer nose mod under factory recall and they will tune it up while its there.
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:25 AM
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To answer your question, no the non trained person can't install an extractor star. It is a precision fitted part and can be ruined easily by someone that doesn't know what they are doing. I have 15+ years working on my S&W's and there is no way I would attempt to fit an extractor.
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Old 01-29-2017, 10:25 AM
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Looking at the ratchet in that cylinder makes me think that gun has had some very hot loads fired through it. The hand turns the cylinder by rotating the ratchets and the timing is controlled by the workings of that process. If you could find a ratchet which the factory considers factory replacement only, you would have to file each for timing in conjunction with the hand. Send that thing back to the guys that made it and save yourself a lot of headache.
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:13 AM
Garegaupa Garegaupa is offline
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Thanks for your answers so far, guys! I'm not going to attempt a replacement myself, then.

Do you think there is any danger involved with firing this revolver in its present state, based on the picture (assuming it's possible to see)?

Regarding the modification mentioned above, this gun has not had it done (at least there is no "M" stamped on it). I contacted S&W regarding that, and they said that, as I live in Norway, I would have to contact their local representative. I did that, but they claimed S&W have stopped doing this modification for free?

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Old 01-29-2017, 02:24 PM
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I don't know about over in Norway, but here in the USA the modification for the hammer nose bushing is still done for free. S&W even pays shipping both ways in the US.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:48 PM
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I'm not seeing the issue as there is some glare on the ratchets so I can't see the ratchets clearly. However, I see two problems. The first is sending it back to the factory for repair. Don't know how that works from Norway. The second issue is that the factory most likely does not have an extractor to fit to your cylinder and will have to replace the entire cylinder. If they have a blue one, the blue will not match the original in either color or durability. How is replacement parts availability there?

Think I would pass.
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Old 01-30-2017, 03:27 AM
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Test the timing on all 6 chambers by pulling the trigger slowly, and look/listen/feel if the cylinder stop locks up the cylinder just before the hammer drops. It is advisable to hold your thumb on the hammer to stop it from slamming forward when doing this test.
If the timing is good, the gun is probably safe to fire...

If it was my gun, I would swap out the extractor and it's accompanying part, the hand.
Then get your local gunsmith to fit them to your gun.

Extractor Assembly, Early Style Gun Parts | 312720 | Numrich Gun Parts

Hand, Oversized Gun Parts | 314150 | Numrich Gun Parts

I have ordered from Numrich a couple of times, they will ship to Norway, just make sure you mail them a copy of your våpenkort (transl: gun license) when you get the order confirmation.

Don't know what price you've agreed on, but my advise would be to pass on this revolver, just keep looking at Finn (THE Norwegian market site) and buy a revolver you can inspect in person.
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:10 AM
Garegaupa Garegaupa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
I don't know about over in Norway, but here in the USA the modification for the hammer nose bushing is still done for free. S&W even pays shipping both ways in the US.
OK, nice to know. The Norwegian representative claims that S&W have said that they have completely stopped doing this mod for free because these guns are now so old, and that if they have worked well so far there should be no reason to perform the mod. This could apply only outside the US, of course, but I got the impression that they considered this to apply in general...

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Think I would pass.
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Don't know what price you've agreed on, but my advise would be to pass on this revolver, just keep looking at Finn (THE Norwegian market site) and buy a revolver you can inspect in person.
Thanks for your advice, guys (and nice to see I'm not the only Norwegian in here, DT75 )!

I see your points on buying a gun that I can examine in person, that would definitely be my first choice. However, because of where I live I will most likely have to travel quite far to be able to do so, which is hard for me to do because of work and other commitments, and would also in a way increase the cost of buying the gun due to travel costs.

I've been looking a lot at Finn.no for a while now, and a nicely used 586/686 seems to have an asking price of 8000-9000 NOK (approximately 960-1080 USD). When one is advertised around 6000 NOK (720 USD), give or take a bit, it tends to literally disappear within minutes (I've seen that happen twice during the last few days).

The asking price for the 586 I'm talking about here is 5500 NOK (660 USD). When I first thought that I might be able to swap these parts myself I figured the total cost wouldn't be so bad, but if I have to take it to a gunsmith to have the parts installed I'm afraid the costs might add up...

Maybe my best option will be to keep searching. It's a bummer, though, because the gun seems to be in relatively good shape considerings its price and age (as far as I'm able to discern, at least).
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Old 01-30-2017, 05:07 AM
DT75 DT75 is offline
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The price is attractive, no doubt, and it could be that no repair is needed, but if the extractor and hand needs to be swapped out you will end up at a minimum 7500-8000,- NOK anyways... (Gun + parts + work)

As the revolver is a "no-dash" (i.e. "old") it has probably been shot a lot over the years, beware that the gun could have developed hammer push-off also. This means that when the gun is cocked in SA it will only take a light to moderate force push at the back of the hammer, in ordrer for the hammer to fall. If this is the case, the SA sear of the hammer or trigger, or both, are worn. The common options here are :

- Replacing either the trigger or the hammer, or maybe both.
- Converting to DA only (bobbing the hammer and/or filing off the SA sear).
- Installing a trigger stop. (Trykkstift/kule)

If the revolver have developed hammer push-off you will struggle to meet the 1360g trigger weight requirement.

You could end up with a good gun at a great price, or it could end up costing you the same, or even a little more than buying a "better" example in the first place.

Trouble is that you won't know until you've already bought it...
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:15 AM
Garegaupa Garegaupa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT75 View Post
You could end up with a good gun at a great price, or it could end up costing you the same, or even a little more than buying a "better" example in the first place.

Trouble is that you won't know until you've already bought it...
Yes, I guess this pretty much sums up the gamble going on every time one buys relatively expensive second-hand stuff...

I've read quite a bit about hammer push-off, and I asked the seller to verify that this gun was not affected by it. He claims that there is no push-off present. But, even if that's the case, I guess it could start happening after I've put a couple of hundred rounds more through the gun, who knows... And if I have to replace the trigger and/or hammer as well as what we've been talking about earlier in this thread, I guess I will have paid as much as for a brand new gun...

I might possibly want to go looking for a newer 586/686 and pay a bit more to reduce the risk, but I'm wondering where the "sweet spot" is - I get the understanding from my research that some of the newer models are considered not as well built as the older models? The primary complaints I've found are regarding gun locks and MIM parts (though opinions seem to be very divided on these matters).

So perhaps a version in the middle between the oldest and the newest is what I should be looking for?
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:31 AM
Garegaupa Garegaupa is offline
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Originally Posted by Garegaupa View Post
OK, nice to know. The Norwegian representative claims that S&W have said that they have completely stopped doing this mod for free because these guns are now so old, and that if they have worked well so far there should be no reason to perform the mod. This could apply only outside the US, of course, but I got the impression that they considered this to apply in general...
Well, I just contacted S&W customer service via chat, and their representative confirmed to me that they do indeed perform this modification for free, and that he could see no reason why this would not apply to international customers when going through the local S&W representative.

This leads to another question from me: I've read stories on the Internet about people sending in their revolvers for this modification, and then ending up with S&W having fixed other issues with their revolvers for free.

Do you think that, if I were to end up buying this gun and sending it in for the mod, I could reasonably expect S&W to look it over and fix any current/impending issues? Or is that more of a gamble?

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Old 01-30-2017, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garegaupa View Post
Well, I just contacted S&W customer service via chat, and their representative confirmed to me that they do indeed perform this modification for free, and that he could see no reason why this would not apply to international customers when going through the local S&W representative.

This leads to another question from me: I've read stories on the Internet about people sending in their revolvers for this modification, and then ending up with S&W having fixed other issues with their revolvers for free.

Do you think that, if I were to end up buying this gun and sending it in for the mod, I could reasonably expect S&W to look it over and fix any current/impending issues? Or is that more of a gamble?
I'm sure that S&W will go through the revolver and give you an estimate for fixing any problems encountered, as I am pretty sure they will not ship you back a firearm that is still potentially unsafe to shoot. The problem I see with that is that I don't know if they have any of the old style extractors in stock any more so if the extractor pawls are not fixable they will want to change out the cylinder to the new style along with the new design extractor. That would add quite a bit to any other costs incurred with problem areas on the revolver. The hand is different as the MIM hands should work fine in your older gun and they still might have the forged models in stock too. Another item they might end up changing is the cylinder stop. That won't be a problem as the part's size and shape, MIM or forged, hasn't changed in years and years.
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:52 AM
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I can't tell much from the picture but I think, judging from what you have said, that you lean toward taking a chance on this old gun. I'd encourage you to do it, IF you don't mind having the gun out of your hands for the repairs. I can't imagine S&W won't make any needed repairs when they install the new firing pin bushing, and while they may not do it for free, their repair charges have always been reasonable, in my experience. And... there is always a good chance this revolver will work fine, like the seller claims, and you have to do nothing! It seems worth the risk, to me. Good luck!
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:24 PM
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Well, I'm still very much undecided... I will probably keep looking for a gun in slightly better shape, but I may go for this one if no potential candidates show up within a reasonable time frame.

Thank you very much for all your input so far, everybody! This forum seems to be a wellspring of knowledge and experience!
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
I can't tell much from the picture but I think, judging from what you have said, that you lean toward taking a chance on this old gun. I'd encourage you to do it, IF you don't mind having the gun out of your hands for the repairs. I can't imagine S&W won't make any needed repairs when they install the new firing pin bushing, and while they may not do it for free, their repair charges have always been reasonable, in my experience. And... there is always a good chance this revolver will work fine, like the seller claims, and you have to do nothing! It seems worth the risk, to me. Good luck!
I agree with this, and for what you would be paying in your higher priced climate, that 586 would be about like me finding one here for about $350, and I would jump on that even with it's issues.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:14 PM
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OK, just to complicate the picture further, I just found another "no dash" 586 (without the mod) which looks slightly better than the one I've posted about here earlier, and which does not have any visible damage to the ratchets. This one will cost me 500 NOK (around 50 USD) more than the other one.

See the attached picture, doesn't it look like the cylinder is in a bit better shape on this one?

(Ignore the scope, if I buy it they will swap back to the original rear sight.)
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Old 02-01-2017, 12:18 PM
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Well, I ended up buying the second gun. Although slightly more expensive, the seller is a hunting supply store with their own resident gunsmith who has vouched for the condition and functionality of the gun. That made it worth the extra money to me!

Thanks a lot for all your help and good advice, folks! Hopefully I will end up with a gun that I'll be happy with for quite a few years to come!

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Old 02-18-2017, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
I don't know about over in Norway, but here in the USA the modification for the hammer nose bushing is still done for free. S&W even pays shipping both ways in the US.
I recently talked to a Smith rep., about buying a hammer nose, for my 586 no dash (M), and was told "they don't support those old guns".
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:29 AM
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What he really meant was, "They don't support you guys ('customers') who have owned your S&Ws for more than just a few years."

What a pathetic situation when you can't buy something as simple as a hammer nose, or a rear sight blade with real white outline, etc., etc.
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Old 02-20-2017, 04:19 AM
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Well, to be honest, Smith & Wesson seem to be sending out a very mixed message regarding this recall...

Here is the transcript from a chat that I had with a S&W customer representative three weeks ago, verbatim (except that I have removed all names so as not to be accused of "naming and shaming" ):

info: Thank you for choosing Smith&Wesson. A representative will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with '[S&W rep]'
[S&W rep]: Hello [customer], Welcome to our Live Chat. How may I help you today?
[Me]: Hello! I've read a bit about a recall applying to early model S&W 586 and 686 revolvers, regarding a possible jam using certain types of ammunition. From what I have heard this is fixed by a modification that is performed for free by S&W. My question is whether this policy still applies?
[S&W rep]: Yes it still applies.
[Me]: OK, then comes the second part of my question: I live in Norway, and have contacted the Norwegian representative of S&W. They say that S&W has stopped doing these modifications for free. Does this mean that the free modification applies to US citizens only, or does your Norwegian representative have the wrong information?
[S&W rep]: I cannot speak to that but we still do the modification for free in the US.
[Me]: OK, but is there any reason why this should not apply internationally if going through one of your official representatives (in this case [the Norwegian S&W service center])? I already know that I can't send the gun directly to S&W in the US due to legislation.
[S&W rep]: I don't see a reason why it would not still be valid.
[Me]: OK, thank you very much. I'll contact [the Norwegian S&W service center] and try to find out if there is some sort of misunderstanding. Thank you very much for your help, have a nice day!
[S&W rep]: You are quite welcome!
[S&W rep]: Have a great day as well!
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [your E-mail address] at the end of your chat.

I sent an E-mail to the Norwegian service center, referring to the chat above, and asked them to check this out (as they had earlier said this mod was no longer performed). Just a moment ago, I received this from them, which is a direct quote of what the European S&W representative had told them:

This is a recall that was done in the past because of cylinder binding due to the use of bad quality ammunition. To help the customers S&W decided to change the bushing plate and the firing pin.

Normally this recall need not to be performed if the revolver shoots well. Only if the primers flow back into the bushing hole, and hereby blocking the cylinder in turning, this recall should be performed.

If you shoot 12 rounds and study the primers it is easy to see if the gun needs the recall or not. If the gun has been shooting without problems the recall need not to be done.

But, as we know the end users, the customers want always the recall will be performed because they read about it and want it. You can explain this job needs special tools and eventually with my next visit I could bring these and we could perform the recall if necessary.

If the recall is performed you'll see a stamp of an M next to the serial number under the yoke closure.

Now, I don't mind not getting this done on my revolver. It has worked flawlessly for the previous owner as well as for me, and I'm very happy with it as-is. However, I think S&W should make sure that their customers get correct feedback - as things are now, the answer you get seems to depend on which customer representative you happen to get in touch with...
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Damage from Cleaning "Lower Receiver" plinx Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 39 09-22-2014 10:11 PM
Extractor rod damage larryofcc S&W-Smithing 10 09-05-2012 06:12 AM
422 extractor damage stevinator S&W-Smithing 0 07-25-2012 01:22 PM

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