Forgive me as I'm sure this has been asked before, a search didn't show much, but what defects would any of you consider bad enough to refuse the FFL transfer on a new gun?
Reason I ask is I have a new 686 3" Talo showing up at my dealer on Monday and after reading some of the "complaints" online it has me a little nervous.
I've seen the issues with canted barrels and rough triggers, but since the gun would have to be sent back anyways, and who knows if the replacement would be better or worse, would you just accept the transfer and send it to S&W yourself if everything else checks out? Plus my dealers distributor had just two of these in stock, down to one now, so they don't have a stack to look through even if they would do this.
Obviously big cosmetic issues would give pause, and yes I've been following the thread about the 629 that had some serious shortcomings. But maybe I'm making more of this than need be and should just go with what my gut tells me.

inspect the gun before you sign for it, look it over real good. You have to realize there are thousands of most guns out there and if you read 12 complaints there are 880 guns not being complained about. The odds are in your favor it is a good one.

Congrats on your choice; my 3" Talo 686+ has become one of my favorite all-around revolvers, and is extremely accurate.


For every issue one reads about, there are untold hundreds of folks with excellent experiences with their purchases. Yours will likely be an excellent gun!


With regards to your question, I would refuse transfer for any signs of impact damage, irregular function, or gross visible defect. The bore and trigger function, lock-up, and cylinder gap are key factors in how the gun will shoot. Small cosmetic issues on a stainless gun would not deter me, but blued guns are a different breed.


Please let us know what happens.

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Your timing is perfect for me to speak about what happened to me this week. A local dealer had a TALO 686 3-inch in stock when I went to pick up a 637. I had previously told him that I would probably take it - based on pictures on his website. I checked it out and backed out of the deal. When S&W installed the barrel, they caused a couple of noticeable bumps in the steel on the left side of the barrel - right where it meets the frame. These bumps are too big to be polished out with emery paper. So, I reneged on it and told him no thanks.

Understand your situation is different since you've actually ordered one. That said, you have to look out for yourself and I would refuse to pay for it if it didn't pass a cursory inspection. Ironically, I found that a well-known tactical store (at least here on the East Coast) sells a 686-3-inch for $100 less - for military and LEO. Since I'm retired Army I think I should qualify for that price. I have talked to the folks at that store before, and there is no obligation to take an ordered handgun if it fails a quality check.

If you can not see an issue with the gun, enjoy your purchase.
It is your choice and your dealer to complete the sale.
And don't read too much into the bad stories. So far my buys have worked.
I just bought a 686+, could find a Talo.

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Some assembly required..

Thanks guys. I do realize the Internet is full of negative reviews on just about everything. Seems like most are eager to post their bad experiences but not the good. Plus some will never be satisfied. I tend to take most feedback with a grain of salt.
Most things mechanically can be fixed. I ordered a PC 442 last month and was a little disappointed when it showed up with a small maybe 1/8" long light scratch on the trigger guard. Really stuck out on the black. But it checked out great otherwise and since it's going to be a carry piece I took it home. A couple dabs of aluminum black later and the scratch is gone and I couldn't be happier with it.

I think a lot of the disappointments come from sellers not posted enough good, quality pictures and not mentioning any issues with the item.
When I sell a gun, I wait until a over cast day and take my pictures outside and from all angles. If there's any issues like wear spots, or such, I include them in the photos.
I can't believe some of the sellers asking several thousand dollars for a gun and then they post 4-5 pictures taken indoors with a cell phone.

I have a Talo 686 3" on order too, so I am interested on seeing how yours comes through. I know some do not like them but the unfluted cylinder grew on me.

I don't have this particular gun, but it sounds a little like cold feet after reading internet horror stories.

If you initially liked this and ordered it, then give it a good looking over, but don't go in with apprehension and wanting to find a reason to refuse it.

I'd refuse if it didn't match the described condition; I once was part of a group order (we all did it legally with the forms and transfers, but combined shipping) and my particular pistol wasn't in good working order. Gun would fire while on safe. Came from J&G, it was one of the surplus pistols, and they advertised as G-VG condition.

My LGS contacted J&G, and they exchanged it for one that did work. This was about 5 years ago.

Did you ask LGS to order gun for you? Is it a new gun? Did you pay for the gun? If you answered yes to the above, it is YOUR gun ( with any warts, etc ) that now needs to be transferred to you. If you ordered a 686 3" Talo and that it what you received, it is yours. It will be your responsibility to send it back to S&W ( any company ) for repair, replacement, it is not the LGS problem, since they cannot control what they receive from distributor9 rub mark from box, etc. The LGS is not responsible for what you receive. You seem to be having unfounded fear of the unknown. "Bad" trigger?? whatever that means to you- Send it to S&W. Dealer buys from distributor, if it is a factory"defect" you will have to deal with S&W, it is not the LGS's problem. Most LGS will try to work with you, but unless it is the wrong gun secondary to LGS ordering wrong or distributor sending wrong item, it becomes your problem.. If you decide not to accept "transfer" than your unacceptable gun will sit in LGS safe till eternity, your loss, since they have no control over what was sent. On a used gun that is locked up, will not fire than the dealer will fix the problem. If you buy a "NIB" gun on the internet , it is yours, not the dealers problem. Be Safe, Doug

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Nope, not paid for. Dealers distributor had a couple in stock so he had one shipped to him. Dealer said he has no problem with return on a refusal to transfer if there is an issue. Obvious cosmetic issues I could not live with would be an immediate refusal but I was more curious about mechanical.
You're right, I'm probably making too big of a deal of this. Just a pretty good chink of change for me.

I am quite sure the LGS can return a defective gun to his distributor. If I go to the Ford dealership and order a new pickup and it come with a blotched up paint job and oil dripping out of it I don't think I am going to be leaving with it.

Both you and the LGS are expecting to receive a new gun corrrectly configured. NOT a flawed piece. I am sure his distributor willl take it back if defective.

But, I think that although one should thoroughly inspect any gun, new or used, I think that going into it with a positive frame of mind instead of a negative is the way to go. I hear the stories and I am sure there are guns out there that S&W should be ashamed off, butt the few newer guns I have bought have been really nice.

I refused a transfer on a revolver that I couldn't open the cylinder on. After I tried a salesman in the gun shop tried; he couldn't open it, and finally a third guy got it open.
All three agreed it needed to go back to the dealer, so i refused the order.
A guy on this forum has a new gun that has the front sight sticking up off the barrel. He accepted the gun; I wouldn't have.

I think the answer somewhat depends on he circumstance.
If the dealer your taking possession and ordered the gun for you, then it should be perfect. If not, it's on him to get you another since he is the sole maker of profit on the transaction.
However, if you purchased the gun online, and are just having the FFL bring it in for you ( for lets say a $30 transfer fee), then its not his problem. It's between you and the original seller (i.e the one making the sales profit.) In that case you might overlook something small to keep the return hassle and costs to a minimum.

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Dave

Most distributors will refer you to the manufacture, and will Not take it back. A Mossberg shotgun arrived, sealed from the factory, the barrel and action did not match. The distributor, did not take it back nor should they. They did not make, pack, etc, it had to go back to Mossberg, who replaced it quickly, picking up shipping both ways. Most distributors do not open factory sealed boxes, so it is not their problem, it goes back to manufacture. The dealer is in the middle, if I order a gun for you that I do not stock, or want to stock, which you paid for before the order, it now becomes your gun. I will help in resolving the problem, but it is Your problem. Someone called to order a gun, which I do not sell, ( I believe it is a piece of ****), told the customer, that he had to pay for it first since I believed it to be a waste and unreliable. I tried to suggest other makes in same caliber, configuration, price range, he refused, even though I offered other items at or below cost, (Yes I would lose money to sell a single item at a loss to prevent someone from buying an unsafe/unreliable gun ). If he does have problems , I will give him manufacture number and wish him luck. I tried. Be Safe,

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The entire dealer/distributor model for profit is built on accountability. Without it, there is zero incentive to buy from you.


My dealer is happy to be 'in the middle,' as the effort expended drops directly to his bottom line. Any issues, and the DEALER is fighting on MY BEHALF to remedy the problem.


I would not purchase from a reseller who took your position.

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If you purchase a gun through a dealer and it's defective, it's up to him to make it right. If a new (or used) gun is transferred from a dealer to your dealer, or any other secondary sale, I believe most would still charge the transfer fee and the return fee, for any reason. By taking the gun in, they still have to run it through their books, and it's not their problem that the gun has a problem. They're not responsible for the condition or defects of the gun as it came from the original seller. They would only be responsible for any damage they might have done after receiving the item.

Sorry if I started any trouble here being a newby , maybe I should have been a little clearer.
After looking for a nice used 3" 686 for awhile, I just decided to purchase new. Liked the 357 Talo so I went to the dealer , he checked his distributor who had one in stock. They're shipping it to him, should be here tomorrow. No money has been exchanged yet on my end and he told me the distributor has no problem taking it back if it doesn't check out before it's transferred to me. I could have got it cheaper from GAG or Bud but I like to support local, both business and tax wise, guess I'm weird that way, so I had the dealer get it.
I was just curious about what some of you would consider a refusal for versus just accepting and sending it back to S&W for service. That sloppily outlined rear site on the recent 629 comes to mind. To me if the gun checks out fine except for a minor issue like that, it makes more sense to accept and return to S&W myself under warranty rather than refuse transfer and take a chance on another.
I know I'm overthinking this. You should of seen me when I ordered a new Jeep a couple of years ago and waited for delivery!

Well that is unfortunate since you live in the mitten we may have done business. If you read my post, the case I was referring to involved a specific gun that I do not sell because of it's poor reliability, if the customer absolutely has to have that gun, he must then pay for it and deal with any problems. If he decides that he does not want it, what do I do with it? I will not sell it, so it is a straight loss for me. If I order a gun for someone that I sell/stock ( S&W, DPMS, Colt, Sig, Taurus, etc) then I will contact the manufacture and make it right for the customer. In the OP's case it is a 686 Talo, if there was a manufacture defect( sights, scratch, crack ) I would talk to S&W and get it corrected or a new gun. If his dealer can send it back, great, unfortunately, a "rough" trigger may be inherent in that model, and the major distributors will NOT take it back, it is considered a factory issue. So lets hope he gets one that is pristine, smooth trigger and has no worries. Be Safe,

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If there's anything that doesn't look right, refuse the gun. Why would you accept something with any defects when you're buying it brand new? You'd accept it and then send it back to the factory to let them fix it? That makes no sense. Good luck.

I hope you don't run your shop the way you replied to this post. If you do you're one of the dealers that give LGS a bad name and drive people to buy online!

You need to read all 3 posts before you make statements that are wrong. I tried to give facts for the sake of brevity, obviously you missed the specifics. No problem. I hope the OP gets a perfect gun and has no problems. Unfortunately you are not a dealer, and have not dealt with the distributors who will not take an item back secondary to a defect, they will refer you to the company. He said his dealer could send it back, excellent, but I have dealt in the real world since 1991, with all of the major distributors in the US and that is not how they do business. I wish it were true, but that is not the way it works, you get referred to the company. I am sorry if the facts upset you, that was not my intent. I spend a great deal of time trying to get the customer what they want, so I do not give LGS a "bad" name, but please talk to your dealer and see if he can return a special order gun. Best of luck. Be Safe,

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Well good news. The gun checked out great. Nice straight barrel with no cant, smooth trigger, locks up tight, nice even finish with not a scuff or scratch. Just needs a good deep cleaning. Couldn't be happier.

Just not sure about the grip. Looks fantastic but I've got pretty large hands and I'm not a fan of the finger grips. I like the wood but my fingers don't fit well in them, not just these but any type of grip with them. Hopefully get to the range possibly later this week and see how it handles.

My buddy will only do FFL to FFL transfers, his shop his rules. Ordered a sporterized pattern 14 rifle in 303 British. I was assured that that he would include a copy of his dealers FFL. All we got was a copy of his drivers license. Removed the scope rings and bases and found 4 holes drilled and tapped for the scope mount. Boxed up the rifle with a note stating why transfer was being refused. Guy tried to make a stink about it but I reminded him a copy of the FFL was supposed to be included and the front receiver had 4 holes drilled and tapped. He had at the start of this story been reminded twice that only FFL to FFL transfers will be done by this shop. While in some locales a drivers license may be ok not in my friends shop. I had one guy try to charge me an extra $35 for a copy of his FFL when doing a transfer. Told him I'll pay for the transfer at my end and you do the same otherwise the deal is off. He did send a copy of his FFL as was requested at the beginning of the buy. Frank

On a used/sporterized gun from an individual federal law does not require an FFL from seller just pruchaser, but you friend has every right to decide who he will or will not ( FFL/No FFL )accept from. I make sure there is a a receipt with SN#, make, model, caliber, Date, signature if it is an individual by mail or in the shop. Not disclosing multiple drills is not good to do. I always try to make sure any warts whether open or hidden are known- it saves an question down the road. The receiver could have been drilled incorrectly than corrected and the first set of holes filled. Be Safe

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I did read all three posts and stand by my statement!
You can whine and cry and stamp your feet but in the end you're wrong.

Vipermd- I understand your point, but the problem is the brands you stock all have positive reputations for customer service. While that might not seem like a problem, it really just means that people have no real reason to buy local. Problem with a new gun? No biggie, just contact Smith, that's all the LGS would do anyway.

Now if there's a problem with that's harder to get resolved, a dealer who has a standing relationship with a distributor has more weight behind him than some schmo that orders 1 gun a year. Saying that you won't help resolve that issue really just negates every benefit of ordering locally.

You're right from a legal standpoint, though. It's not your problem. But that outlook makes ordering online and saving $200 look mighty appealing.

I purchased a new Mod 70 rifle and had it shipped to my local FFL. When I went to pick it up we opened the box and I wasn't happy with the looks of the stock. I accepted the rifle and I dealt with Winchester on the stock issue. I could have refused it but I didn't feel it was my FFL's problem if I didn't like the stock. I contacted Winchester, they had me ship it back to them and they replaced the stock and shipped it back to me.

No not wrong, But if you say so. OK Be Safe,

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Mumbly-Peg: I do not stock Jiminez and will not sell it, secondary to problems on the few another dealer had and we tested. If customer did not want that gun, I would not sell it, because I would feel uncomfortable selling a customer a firearm with multiple problems, FTF, FTE, Mag dropping on firing, so that would mean the gun got put back into the safe, or it would have to be destroyed since I would not sell it. As for the distributors, in the last day I tried to find a distributor that would take back a defective item- 12 different ones- all stated " We are not a repair station". "Defective merchandise must be sent to the manufacturer". Now if I made a mistake in the order, or if they did, or someone dropped an anvil on a product- Those could be returned- but if it is a defective part covered under warranty it has to be returned to manufacturer, which is why I posted in the beginning. I am glad that the OP got a great gun. Be Safe,

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Nope, he's dead on right.

Walk in to ANY firearms retailer. If you don't see a sign stating all gun sales are final, ask, and they'll tell you the same thing.

In this instance, the xfer dealer is only providing a service. He's not the seller and isn't responsible for condition. Once he's received the gun, except for background check, he's delivered on his end The gun is legally his. Refuse the transfer, and he has every right to keep it. If the seller is willing to take it back (if it's a new gun from a dealer or distributor, forget it), then you still owe the transfer dealer his fee + shipping to send it back.

Try asking FedEx for a refund on shipping because you don't like the product Amazon sent you. Do get back to us with how that worked out.

Taking care of customers doesn't mean you bend over when one cries and stamps their feet with a ridiculous expectation, which is exactly what you're proposing dealers should do.

Amazon offers me a full refund and free return shipping. That's one of the reasons to use them.


Likewise, the FFLs who get quite a bit of $$$ from me gladly offer better customer service than what's been described in this thread.

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Sounds like your definition of good customer service is a dealer who lets you screw him.

If you've contracted (implicitly) with a third party dealer to receive and transfer a gun you've bought from someone else, it's unethical to back out of the deal because you decide you don't like the gun. The xfer dealer is responsible for the service he provides, not the product you purchased.

If you spend so much at your LGS they're willing to let you walk away from a transfer of a gun you bought elsewhere, well, good for you. The average online buyer doesn't have that kind of relationship with an LGS and the very fact they're buying online means they probably don't spend that much with a dealer. Most xfer dealers are very small shops, anyway. So leaving them holding the bag is all the worse.

But then, as I pointed out before, the gun is legally part of their inventory. They're under no obligation to attempt to return to the seller, unless you contract with them to ship it back. So they can keep the gun until the buyer decided to pay up.

Well...

I recently bought a used gun, and went to a different LGS (my regular one closed down).

Before we started any paperwork, the clerk told me to check over the gun to make sure I wanted to accept the transfer.

They are now my new usual LGS.

Part of being 'in business' is taking care of your customers when something happens. It's called the Cost of Doing Business.

Usually, everything is perfect - customer is happy with service, business owner is paid. It's the measure of a man, how he behaves when everything ISN'T perfect.


A wise business owner doesn't cry and whine about working for little/no profit on a single deal. A wise business owner is pragmatic, and sees the big picture with satisfied customers.


Also, sometimes the best thing is to turn away business that you don't want or need. The Jimenez sale comes to mind. Some customers aren't worth the sale.

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You are right about jiminez deal, I try too hard to make everything perfect for all customers. And discussing this with him, caused me to reply to the post. I thought I could give the general public ( forum), some basics about what distributors will and will not do, I was wrong. I will not flagellate this dead equine any longer. All the best to all. Be Safe,

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How long do you think an FFL who keeps guns he didn't pay for would remain in business?


The gun may be in their inventory, but you're describing theft. They're not on the hook for return shipping, please don't pretend that's what we're discussing here.

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I screwed myself one time because I didn't look down the barrel when I got the gun from my FFL. The outside of barrel had a lot of patina which made the ringed expanded barrel hard to detect. It was a month later that I saw the ringed barrel during cleaning. If I had seen the defect I would have declined the gun. I even talked to the dealer about the gun when I bought it and he said nothing about the ringed barrel. He got me because I didn't look down the barrel when I accepted the gun transfer.

Because of reports on new gun defects I thoroughly check every gun now. I even take snap caps to check the function of the gun. I check for barrel canted or ringed, cylinder lock up and malfunctions, trigger function, any cracks or discolorations, sight problems and basically everything about the gun. Once you accept a gun and the return policy lapses that gun is yours.

I have been screwed by an FFL also and I was at fault for not making sure I got what I paid for. The FFL had my gun laying out on a shelf and the shipping box it came in was gone. This FFL always had the guns in the boxes when I received other transfers through him. This time it didn't.
It should have had an extra magazine but I didn't check for that at the transfer. I called the seller and he said the mag was there but my FFL said it wasn't in the box. Well the box was no where to be found. FFL said he wasn't going to go the he said I said so he would get me another mag which he always had an excuse why he didn't have it. I got online and bought one within 15 minutes and received it in a few days.

I don't deal with this FFL anymore. IMO He made it plain he didn't want my transfer business anymore. I heard from someone else that he got treated wrong and got an attitude from this FFL also.

The one FFL I use now doesn't even open the box till I get there. No questions of what was or wasn't in the box then. So basically you want to watch how your FFL handles transfers so you don't get screwed. At this FFL there was a magazine missing when the box was opened and I called the seller right then. The seller acted so surprised but sure enough he still had the magazine. So always make sure you see the shipping box when you inspect the gun. You might be missing something you paid for.