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02-18-2017, 10:25 PM
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Stumbled on a 438, the ultimate question "To buy, or not to buy."
Good evening! Yesterday I stumbled onto a 438 on consignment at a local gun store for $350. I am not certain if it comes with the Box or any accessories and since it is consignment relatively certain has been fired however it looked brand new to me. I was not actively looking for anything and stumbled on this and like it very much. I have wanted a single action/ double action small frame revolver to carry in an ankle rig or pocket. Frankly I am overwhelmed by the variety of options from Smith & Wesson and other manufacturers but this seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. I have read some discussions on this forum regarding stainless steel vs carbon steel, closed hammer/DAO vs shrouded hammer/ SA-DA, Etc.
I guess the first question is, at $350 a too good to pass up price or just average?
Second, I guess my question is about durability and weight. I am pretty well set that I do want a SA/DA gun but the question then is the weight of an airweight versus a stainless steel frame noticeable, and is the 438 sufficiently resistance to sweat and other elements?
If you have other recommendstions I am open to suggestions. I just didn't want to miss letting this one go if it was something I should snag now.
Thank you.
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02-18-2017, 11:36 PM
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Artyldr,
Go for it. You won't find another one like that. I recently found a great deal here in the classifieds on a 38-2, which is almost identical to what you are looking at.
You should be looking at a matte black finish - correct? If so, I have that 38-2 and a similar finished 442 that I bought back in the 1990's. Still looks great, and as I said on another thread, it wears better than a blued gun.
As to weight, obviously you are in the 15 ounce area, great for carry, not as much fun for long range sessions, at that weight, you will forget you are carrying it, and it is not as punishing to shoot as the air light scandium frames, nor will it have the bullet pulling problems they exhibit with some loads. A stainless steel model would weigh in around 23 ounces, a bit more noticeable, but more comfortable to shoot. So shoot a steel one and carry the air weight.
My ratio of air weights to steel guns is running about 3 to 1.
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02-18-2017, 11:45 PM
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Everything adwjc said....if your lgs is a friend, ask him to allow you one dry fire da pull. You may like it, you may not. It's long for me, but my wrist is fused so there are some mobility issues. Just a thought.
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02-18-2017, 11:52 PM
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Price sounds reasonable to me. I like the all-steel revolvers better, I'd probably look for an older 649 in .38 special (about 20 oz). But I know a lot of people find those too heavy.
The old Model 38s were great guns but I doubt you will find one for that price.
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02-18-2017, 11:57 PM
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Thanks for the advice! This will be an EDC in an ankle rig or pocket so weight and reliability is paramount. I will shoot it enough to remain proficient but have other things to shoot for entertainment so it sounds like this fits the bill. Yes it is the matte black finish and feels very light especially compared to the Browning Hi Power, Kimber 1911, and Walther P99c, and Kel-Tec PF-9 I currently carry!
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02-19-2017, 12:14 AM
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I see the heading PINNED and UNPINNED on the forum headings. I presume, older guns were better built? It might be my bias for the "good old days" but am I off the mark?
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02-19-2017, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyldr01
I see the heading PINNED and UNPINNED on the forum headings. I presume, older guns were better built? It might be my bias for the "good old days" but am I off the mark?
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I find the older J-frames tend to have better actions. Of current production guns, the Centennials seem to have the smoothest triggers. This is just my personal experience. Metallurgy has certainly gotten better, none of the older airweights are rated for +P.
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02-19-2017, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversnake
I find the older J-frames tend to have better actions. Of current production guns, the Centennials seem to have the smoothest triggers. This is just my personal experience. Metallurgy has certainly gotten better, none of the older airweights are rated for +P.
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FWIW, Buffalo Bore offers a standard pressure 158g lead SWCHP round whose bullet leaves my 2" J frames at exactly the same speed as Remington's +P load with the same bullet. It is also just as unpleasant to shoot, IMHO, especially in alloy guns. But if you want that level of performance and are concerned about guns not rated +P, there's an option.
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02-19-2017, 01:32 AM
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That's a good point. You can also load them with wadcutters and then have a +P hollowpoint for your reload. I almost always prefer steel revolvers but airweights have their place.
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02-19-2017, 07:19 PM
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So I called the dealer to confirm details and it seems I had the price wrong, it is listed at $400 without box etc. Seems high for used, when I see them online new still for similar.
A new wrinkle to the equation, I went to my PX and they have both a 638 and 442 for the same price, $385 (tax free, the PX perk).
Reading the forum it seems there may also be differences in the smoothness/crispness of the DA trigger pull between the 442 /638 due to the SA/DA vs DAO. Any thoughts on this?
I am slowly coming around to the 442 but really like the 438.
Again, thanks for listening and input.
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02-19-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversnake
That's a good point. You can also load them with wadcutters and then have a +P hollowpoint for your reload. I almost always prefer steel revolvers but airweights have their place.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't you carry the more powerful HPs for the first 5 rounds? You may not (probably won't) be able to reload and you WILL need the ***rsepower' in an ugly confrontation. I'm still looking for a J-frame that chambers 12-gauge slugs!
As for the 438, I've never even seen one! I carried the 638 for several years and it has been a comforting companion in casino parking lots at night time. If the condition is good, $350 is a wonderful price. I would buy it simply to prevent someone else from getting it! BTW, I've done this more than once!
Kaaskop49
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02-19-2017, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyldr01
So I called the dealer to confirm details and it seems I had the price wrong, it is listed at $400 without box etc. Seems high for used, when I see them online new still for similar.
A new wrinkle to the equation, I went to my PX and they have both a 638 and 442 for the same price, $385 (tax free, the PX perk).
Reading the forum it seems there may also be differences in the smoothness/crispness of the DA trigger pull between the 442 /638 due to the SA/DA vs DAO. Any thoughts on this?
I am slowly coming around to the 442 but really like the 438.
Again, thanks for listening and input.
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I have both a 442 and 638, and after shooting both of 'em for a while I can't tell any difference between DA trigger pulls. And I have never regretted having SA available on the 638. Not that I use it a whole lot, but it's great for showing off at the range, like on plates at 50 yards.
As for new or used, I personally would NOT pay extra for a used gun of unknown provenance (even if it looks perfect) when I could buy a truly equivalent new one for the same or less. Even at your original thought of $350 for the used one I'd pick a new one at $385, just so's I'd know for sure where it had been.
I would also pick a 638 over a 438 (or a 442), whether new or used, given my unhappy experience with rust spots on the yoke of my daily-carry 442 when I didn't pay enough attention to a daily wipedown with a silicone cloth. This is an experience I have NEVER had with the 638 or any other daily carry stainless gun. (To be fair, it's only the carbon steel yoke on the 442 that was a problem - the blackened stainless of the barrel and cylinder were never a problem.) I assume this difference would be present between the used 438 and the 638, as well as still being the case with current 442s.
So if you really like the 638, I'd say go for it.
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02-19-2017, 08:47 PM
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Great insight, thank you. I think you are right, new vs used (especially at comparable prices) and stainless vs. carbon steel. I think I see a 638 in my future!
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02-19-2017, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaaskop49
Maybe I'm missing something, but why wouldn't you carry the more powerful HPs for the first 5 rounds? You may not (probably won't) be able to reload and you WILL need the ***rsepower' in an ugly confrontation. I'm still looking for a J-frame that chambers 12-gauge slugs!
As for the 438, I've never even seen one! I carried the 638 for several years and it has been a comforting companion in casino parking lots at night time. If the condition is good, $350 is a wonderful price. I would buy it simply to prevent someone else from getting it! BTW, I've done this more than once!
Kaaskop49
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Some people prefer the lower recoil of the wadcutters for fast follow up shots or they want to shoot with the same ammo they've been training with.
If you have to reload however the shape of wadcutters makes them more difficult to get into the cylinder.
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02-19-2017, 10:48 PM
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I like airweight J-frames, and I own a 438. But I have found that the shrouded hammer guns like the 438 have a disadvantage which is rarely mentioned. It is difficult to decock them safely. Because of this issue, I prefer a "hammerless" gun like a 442 for most purposes.
I described issue with decocking in more detail in this post:
Any positive or negative comments: 438
As far as differences in trigger pull between the different models, I have not observed that. In my experience all the airweight J-frames have triggers that are acceptable, but not great. And they can all be improved by a gunsmith.
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02-19-2017, 11:21 PM
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I've heard a few others talk about the decocking issue. Is it any more challenging than decocking a 1911?
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02-19-2017, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyldr01
I've heard a few others talk about the decocking issue. Is it any more challenging than decocking a 1911?
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Artyldr,
you would only be cocking it for a very deliberate shot. A shrouded hammer would not allow you to put a finger under the hammer, so you would probably have introduce a "foreign object" - not easy to do in a stressful situation. A DAO (442) would eliminate this problem.
Back to your earlier post- New vs Used - S&W warranty makes it an added benefit when you buy new.
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Last edited by adwjc; 02-19-2017 at 11:59 PM.
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02-19-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyldr01
I've heard a few others talk about the decocking issue. Is it any more challenging than decocking a 1911?
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I can't think of any reason to decock a 1911. It is designed to be carried cocked and locked, so if it is cocked and you decide not to fire, just engage the thumb safety and holster it. This is a very different situation than if you cock a revolver and then decide not to fire it.
The correct procedure to decock a revolver is to put your off hand thumb in front of the hammer. That way even if you lose control of the hammer, it is blocked by your thumb. On a 438 you can't put your thumb in front of the hammer, and it is not easy to get a firm grip on the small portion of the hammer spur that is exposed.
I talked a little more about these issues in the thread that was linked from my previous post.
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02-20-2017, 12:00 AM
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As I read more in the forum, will all new have the internal lock? Dead horse of a topic I'm sure but is there any factual testimony of problems with the lock activating inadvertently under duress? Is it that much of a real issue?
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02-20-2017, 12:58 PM
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If it has no lock and for that price, I would buy it in a heart beet.
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02-20-2017, 05:56 PM
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438
Picked this one up about 3 or 4 years ago. It along with
my .380 bodyguard are my two everyday carry guns. This
one has Crimson Trace grips and loaded with some Golddot
short barrel 135gr.
Most of the time I just carry it in the paddle holster, its easy on and off, when its time to run out to get something, or walk the dogs.
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02-20-2017, 06:09 PM
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I also would get it - all I've seen around here are 638's - and I've seen here on SWF that the 6-series tend to have a softer/non-anodized finish ...
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