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Old 02-21-2017, 09:15 PM
Brasso4 Brasso4 is offline
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Default Tried to remove the lock....failed.

So I saw the video on how to remove the ILS from a S&W revolver. The video was done on a J-frame. I have a 686. I learned two things after I removed the sideplate.

1. I don't know jack about the inner workings of a S&W.

2. An L-frame don't look nothing like a J-frame.

After I finally found a picture showing where the hammer block goes, I put it back together.

Any videos out there on how to remove the ILS from a 686?

Rob
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:43 PM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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I'd start there for disassembly. The lock mechanism should be the same on every frame.

Full disclosure, I've never done it.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:47 PM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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Also, I don't think you have to remove the trigger assembly like he does in the video.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:13 PM
wrangler5 wrangler5 is offline
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I haven't watched the video, but I know I did NOT remove the trigger when I took out the lock on my 638 and installed a PLUG.
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Old 02-21-2017, 11:34 PM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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Yeah, the value is in the first quarter of the video. Anything after that, besides the reassembly, shouldn't need to be done.

His gun is a pre-lock, but after the hammer is removed, the lock should be just behind it.
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Old 02-22-2017, 12:54 AM
Brasso4 Brasso4 is offline
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Awesome. Thanks. I'll give another go.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:37 AM
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While I agree the trigger does not need to be removed, having the gun open already provides the ideal time to remove all the internal parts and inspect them for uneven wear, burs (especially on the machined parts of the frame), as well as clean them and re-lube them.

But that's just me.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:47 AM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
While I agree the trigger does not need to be removed, having the gun open already provides the ideal time to remove all the internal parts and inspect them for uneven wear, burs (especially on the machined parts of the frame), as well as clean them and re-lube them.

But that's just me.
I agree. I haven't taken delivery of my first Smith yet, but after watching that video and reading a few how-to's, it doesn't seem to be the Pandora's box some make it out to be. Though I suppose my line of work might make it seem simpler to me.

Just watch for launching springs, and use a better screw driver than he did!

Last edited by Mumbly-Peg; 02-22-2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:25 AM
gnystrom gnystrom is offline
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Please make sure you do it correctly. Incorrectly installing a plug can negate any of the locks perceived problems. Personally, I leave the lock alone and as a RSO for years I have never personally experienced any S&W lock issues. Do I like it? No. Do I care if it is on the gun? No.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:50 AM
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I've done four of them... Once the hammer is out it isn't too complicated. Toughest thing is getting the little clip on The Plug. A small needle nose pliers works best.

Bob
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:47 PM
Double-O-Dave Double-O-Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso4 View Post
An L-frame don't look nothing like a J-frame.
Except for frame size - the J-frame is currently the smallest revolver frame made by S&W, and the L-frame is considered a medium/large sized frame - and the mainsprings - the J-frame has a coil mainspring while the L-frame has a leaf mainspring - the two revolvers are very similar. Yes, there are some differences if you are trying to compare a concealed hammer J-frame (Model 640) to an L-frame, but otherwise, in my opinion, the internals should be similar enough for comparison. YMMV.

Good luck,

Dave
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:23 PM
Brasso4 Brasso4 is offline
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My intent is to grind off the nub on the flag and leave everything in place.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso4 View Post
My intent is to grind off the nub on the flag and leave everything in place.
You can do that, however if you ever wish to resell the gun you'll want to replace it with a new one to avoid potential problems. And while I know well all think "I'm never going to sell this gun" no one knows for certain what the future holds. Never say never.
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Old 02-23-2017, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
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My intent is to grind off the nub on the flag and leave everything in place.
Can't you just sell that thing and buy a pistol without a lock if you don't want a pistol with the lock?
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
You can do that, however if you ever wish to resell the gun you'll want to replace it with a new one to avoid potential problems. And while I know well all think "I'm never going to sell this gun" no one knows for certain what the future holds. Never say never.
I think we've been told that you cannot buy the locking flag from S&W as a part, so if you want to restore a lock's function you have to send the gun back to the factory at your expense (next day air) for repair at their commercial rates, which are not cheap. Plus shipping back.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:26 AM
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Find a recommended local gunsmith and have him do a lock remove and trigger job.
Geoff
Who is still looking for such a mythical beast in his neighborhood.

Last edited by Skeptic 9c; 02-27-2017 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Auto censor problem.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:30 AM
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I don't understand all the fuss about S&W locks. My 629-6 has the lock which I never use and frankly I don't notice it being there. S&W warranty is null and void if you mess with it.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:35 AM
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After you remove the hammer, you need to take the thumb latch nut off and remove the bar. Watch for the spring on the back side. Then you can remove the lock without damaging the spring. Absolutely DO NOT disable the lock and leave it in place. Regardless of what you may think, you are not the last owner of your gun.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
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I don't understand all the fuss about S&W locks.
There isn't anything to understand. Some people just like to fuss about inconsequential things.
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:14 AM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake1945 View Post
I don't understand all the fuss about S&W locks. My 629-6 has the lock which I never use and frankly I don't notice it being there. S&W warranty is null and void if you mess with it.
It's funny to me. Being new to revolvers, I honestly would never have thought about it if it wasn't for all of the online hullabaloo.
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Old 02-23-2017, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbly-Peg View Post
It's funny to me. Being new to revolvers, I honestly would never have thought about it if it wasn't for all of the online hullabaloo.
Thank you!

And don't let these guys say these modern locked guns with ALL the enhancements AND the warranty, ever, EVER dissuade you from buying a new gun.

MIM may not be as strong as a forged piece or whatever they were made before. Has a new piece broken on your gun? Rarely- rarely do the locks fail. Like any mechanical piece can fail. Murphy's Law. Fine. It makes me sick hearing these *******s bitch about the lock. Making the guy who spent 1k on a SMITH feel like ****.

Shoot your guns, if they fail, the warranty kicks in.

The End

Ps. Bitching about the lock is bashing the BRAND. Let's move on.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:10 PM
Mumbly-Peg Mumbly-Peg is offline
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Yeah, I would think that fans of the brand would at least want them to stay in business.

The chances of actually needing to shoot a 2-legger for self defense (unless you're military or LEO) are pretty slim. Compound that with the chances of a lock making your revolver seize up, and you've got a scenario less likely than winning the lottery. If you're afraid of those chances, I don't see how fear doesn't keep you in bed all day.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:34 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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^^^^

What he said! It's ridiculous for you to fiddle around with your gun to grind off the nub. Just leave it alone or sell it if the flag gives you the "willies"!
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Old 02-23-2017, 04:02 PM
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I removed the locking flag on my NM66 when I tore it completely down to have it re bead-blasted. I left the flag out when I put it back together due in large part to the hubbub of people who despise it.

I didn't like the small notch gap on the left side of the hammer with the locking flag omitted... there was no way to make it look like something wasn't missing due to that empty space. I re-installed the flag, function tested it, and it's never caused me a problem.

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Old 02-23-2017, 04:44 PM
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Default a word about "self-smithing" and trained smiths

My company manufactures highly complex (technically) heavy duty high speed rotating equipment for the power generation industry. We produce detailed Maintenance Manuals, and are free with expert advice when customers call.

However, at the near end to 54 years in this racket, I still get calls from mechanics, millwrights, construction workers that either can't find or follow the detailed instructions and simply want some help getting over the next step.

Bottom line? I love to help the ones that call because they are the ones that realized for whatever reason they are momentarily stuck and could just use some advice.

The ones that really bug me are the ones who do the damage, call to get it fixed, complain to everyone that my travelling service engineer charges are highway robbery, then complain that the product was defective as far as they are concerned.

Kudoos to the OP....he said he went so far, found out he needed help and jumps on the forum to seek some advice.

What do I tell the ones bad mouthing my companies product, my field engineers, my prices and all?

I usually e-mail (after hanging up on them if they get extra loud) a photo with attached quote of one of my old time heroes
...... Red Adair.....Texas Oil Well firefighter.

"If you think it is expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur".

I don't bash anyone, and a guy that can change stocks is not necessarily qualified to go much further, while others can probably strip guns totally down blindfolded.

So it may be with self smithing vs the trained smith. I know my goal is not the actual work, but to be able to recognize what I can do and what I cannot feel comfortable doing.
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Old 02-23-2017, 08:40 PM
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"remove the lock" ...Why? None of mine have caused me grief. If you want a pre lock then trade that one in and, buy a pre lock. Removing that lock would devalue that gun.

Last edited by Arm; 02-23-2017 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:45 PM
Brasso4 Brasso4 is offline
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Haven't messed with it again..yet. I may just leave it and make it the truck gun.

It's heavy LOL.

I'm Jonesing for a 640 for CC anyway.
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:58 AM
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I can see how it could bother someone on a stainless if they are an obsessive type of person. It just doesn't bother me one way or the other. The nice thing about a blued revolver though, is you don't notice it anywhere near as much. You are too busy looking at how beautiful it looks!
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Old 02-25-2017, 08:55 PM
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I think the OP was correct in getting advice. The 4th element of the Hippocratic Oath: "I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery." When we are working on firearms we owe it to those around us to know what we don't know and get help from those who do or stop.

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Old 02-27-2017, 08:08 AM
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Just stay leery of .44 Magnums with lightweight frames. They had lock problems, but I would have recoil problems anyway.
Geoff
Whose .44 Magnum is a Superblackhawk 7.5 inch.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:55 AM
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To many of those who dislike the lock, it's largely a cosmetic issue. Failures are not unknown, though they are pretty rare. When I removed the lock from my 686 and my 627 Pro, there were marks left on the side of the hammer where the flag had been dragging. Now that is probably more of a legitimate concern than unintentional locking.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:08 AM
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Just leave it alone. It only makes you feel better, its still a lock SW. Leave it be its not a problem. The plugs have locked up. Never had a lock problem and the shop has sold thousands never a problem. I would not buy a messed with plugged SW.
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