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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 03-25-2017, 06:24 PM
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Looking at a NIB 686-6 on line. I have read a few articles about people receiving the 686 only to find the barrel was canted. So, do you think this happens very often? Hate to buy one and have to send it back right away. Model 164300. Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:36 PM
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This does happen from time to time. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell until you lay hands on the gun.

In these days of computer driven machine tools and lasers, you'ld think they could get the barrel straight without fail?
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:06 PM
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Totally unscientific hunch, but it seems there are small batches of similar faults for different gun models. There were a batch of new, canted 686's a while back, but it's been quiet around here regarding that problem lately. Of course, refusing the purchase after inspection is the easiest way to avoid it.

Full disclosure. Last time I mentioned in a thread that certain gun problems had apparently ceased, and members here agreed, the problems restarted a few months later.

Good luck on yours, and come on back with impressions if you go through with it.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:15 PM
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Just a thought on this subject...But we all know more often then not,a six inch barrel may actually be 5.7/8 inches ,where some are spot on at Six inches.Any connection made between those that have missed the mark and the canted ones?
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:24 PM
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I had a factory new "canted"629. Totally missed it when I purchased at a LGS.

And I lived to tell about it!

😉

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Old 03-25-2017, 07:31 PM
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The 686+ I bought a month ago was built in early February of this year according to the tag on the case and the barrel was nice and straight. It's a beautiful gun and a joy to shoot.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
This does happen from time to time. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell until you lay hands on the gun.

In these days of computer driven machine tools and lasers, you'ld think they could get the barrel straight without fail?
Personally, I'd think a high school shop class could screw a barrel on straight.
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:45 PM
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There's a video on-line showing S&W factory workers screwing on barrels. The first worker screws the barrel on to the last half turn or so, then the next guy puts the gun in a vice and does the final half turn with a huge wrench. He eye-balls whether it's at 12 o'clock. No machinery or gauges or meters -- he just eye-balls it for a second or two.

Last edited by Ashlander; 03-30-2017 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:57 AM
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Yep, no guarantees no matter which model you buy, or when. It's a toss up.

So far I've been able to living with the canted ones (yes, plural) I've bought.

But you'd think in this day & age of computer controlled equipment they could do it perfectly each time.

.
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:50 AM
mgriffin mgriffin is offline
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Thank you for all of your responses!
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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Most all the later models Smith revolver barrels are a crush fit. I've had one 686+ that was over clocked. Meaning the last bit of tightening to get that crush fit was too far. The most noticed part of this was looking through the sight picture from the rear and see the flat grooved section on top of the barrel didn't match up with the tang on the rear sight as to make a straight line. In my case I had enough of a crush fit to counter clock the barrel just enough to make it right and leave me with a .006 BC gap. It also helped that my best friend happens to be a gunsmith and let me use his frame wrench. Over 500 rounds been through it and it has not moved. Most of the time the barrel would have to be removed, turned down and set back to correct this. I got lucky I guess. I think S&W has done away with the grooved area on top so now you don't notice it as easy.
The model 69 and other models with a shroud is not so easy to fix being these are pinned in place and would most likely have to be replaced. I have passed on 3 model 69s because the shroud was off center witch tilted the front sight. Even though I doubt it will help my shooting I still want it made right. I guess I am just picky like that and have been told this by many people. The new Smiths shoot great so don't let this stop you from getting one.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:12 AM
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Both KY Gun Company and Buds Guns provide return shipping if you find a flaw with the gun upon inspection at the receiving FFL. Just call the seller before signing any paperwork and they will send a Return shipping label. You get a 100% refund.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jul View Post
The model 69 and other models with a shroud is not so easy to fix being these are pinned in place and would most likely have to be replaced. I have passed on 3 model 69s because the shroud was off center witch tilted the front sight.
The M69s are two-piece barrels. I can't recall seeing one disassembled but I have other two & three-piece barrelled models. Their shrouds are indexed into the frame with one, usually two large matching key tab/keyslot points.

The matching indexing points are molded into the frame for alignment when manufactured, not added by hand later. It's always been my observation that two & three piece barrels have been immune from the one-piece barrel's canting issues.

My (8) different S&W multi-piece barrel models have not exhibited any canting. Not something I can say for my one-piecers.

I'm curious of other's observations on this as it's not something I've heard of & question.

.


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Old 03-27-2017, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
So far I've been able to living with the canted ones (yes, plural) I've bought.
I don't know how you do it because I could never get over it. Every time you look down the barrel to aim, you have a crooked front sight staring back at you screaming "I'm canted"!

The first canted barrel I got was on a 8" Anaconda from '95. Besides that one, I have only heard of 2 other Colts with canted barrels and those were shared online and ironically they were Pythons.

The second gun I got with a canted barrel was my 3" 629-2E from '89. However, I have seen countless other S&Ws being shared with canted barrels. They dated clear back to the early '80s sometimes, so this is not a recent event.

I ended up selling the 8" Anaconda as is, and sold my 6" Anaconda too. With the proceeds, I paid Frank Glenn to correct the canted barrel 629 because I was keeping it as my only 44mag. Simply better quality than an Anaconda. See, I am not totally a Colt guy.

I am surprised to hear reports of actual 'batches' of guns coming out this way though. That would suggest an automated process but that isn't the case apparently. Not sure why that would happen then. It's a shame that the problem spans all models of S&W too.

There is one glimmer of light here. Considering the number of guns S&W puts out, the number of actual faulty ones is rather slim. Still, the possibility of getting a 'bad' one is very real. I got caught twice with canted barrels and I can assure you it will never happen to me again. I will always inquire as to how the straight the barrel is now on ANY purchase, and I suggest everyone else do the same.

I also have a theory as to how things like canted barrels aren't noticed right away, and that is due to "new gun excitement blindness". Yes, you heard it correct. If most people are like me, when they get a new gun, they are very excited to receive it. That excitement tends to cause things to be overlooked. That's how 2 got by me, which happened to be early on when I was still 'new'. I learned the hard way. However, if someone follows this advice from the start, it will save them from learning the hard way too.

Last edited by iPac; 03-27-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 03-27-2017, 03:54 AM
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S&W must have hired a bunch of Cock-eyed assemblers because this subject is coming up more and more frequent. Not that it never happened back 30 - 50 years ago, but it was VERY RARE as opposed to how many times it has come up here lately.

I can only assume that their final inspection area (before the guns are packaged for shipment) is lacking in either un-acceptable specifications or ethics. UNACCEPTABLE!
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
The M69s are two-piece barrels. I can't recall seeing one disassembled but I have other two & three-piece barrelled models. Their shrouds are indexed into the frame with one, usually two large matching key tab/keyslot points.

The matching indexing points are molded into the frame for alignment when manufactured, not added by hand later. It's always been my observation that two & three piece barrels have been immune from the one-piece barrel's canting issues.

My (8) different S&W multi-piece barrel models have not exhibited any canting. Not something I can say for my one-piecers.

I'm curious of other's observations on this as it's not something I've heard of & question.

.


.
I had some pictures of one that a guy sent me showing this. If I still have them I will post it.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:41 AM
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S&W must have hired a bunch of Cock-eyed assemblers because this subject is coming up more and more frequent. Not that it never happened back 30 - 50 years ago, but it was VERY RARE as opposed to how many times it has come up here lately.

I can only assume that their final inspection area (before the guns are packaged for shipment) is lacking in either un-acceptable specifications or ethics. UNACCEPTABLE!
So 30-50 years ago, you didn't see very many canted barrels, eh?

And now, you say you hear about them all the time?

Huh. I wonder why that is?

Oh well, it's good that we have forums like this to discuss the declining quality of our firearms!

Also, Interwabz aside, when did they stop, you know...pinning the barrels?
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Old 03-27-2017, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
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I am surprised to hear reports of actual 'batches' of guns coming out this way though. That would suggest an automated process but that isn't the case apparently. Not sure why that would happen then. It's a shame that the problem spans all models of S&W too.
I didn't mean batches of canted barrels, but batches of problems in general. There were Shield RSA's that were reported failing for a period, then the reports stopped for many months, now there seems to be another batch of reports. The Shield slide jamming is new problem that's had a recent batch of reports here.

As to why a non-automated process has batch's of problems, it ultimately rests on management and QC, but it might be that the "good" guy with the big wrench was on vacation.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
There's a video on-line showing S&W factory workers screwing on barrels. The first worker screws the barrel on to the last half turn or so, then the next guy puts the gun in a vice and does the final half turn with a huge wretch. He eye-balls whether it's at 12 o'clock. No machinery or gauges or meters -- he just eye-balls it for a second or two.
Think about what that one guy is costing. He's probably "making" more than a Senior Vice President with Harvard MBA and 20 years of seniority. The highest "paid" employee at the company.
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Old 03-27-2017, 11:41 AM
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Wrong link.

Last edited by Jul; 03-27-2017 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:21 PM
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Buy from a local dealer , it's worth giving him your business if you can eye-ball the gun , before laying out the money.
My Daddy always said " Don't go buying no pig in a poke" .
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Old 03-27-2017, 12:23 PM
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I was hearing reports about this back in 2008-09 and have only ever seen one where it was very slightly canted. You had to have a good eye to even notice it. Haven't ever seen one since. My guess is after all the warranty returns they were getting, S&W either fired the guy screwing the barrels on or had him go back through training again. I have a 686+ manufactured in 2010 and the barrel is perfect.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:52 PM
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Default It's ok to ask.....

You ask the vendor (If he is an A+ vendor) about the canting. You can ask for a picture that specifically shows barrel alignment.
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Old 03-29-2017, 01:12 PM
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I had a canted barrel on a 6" 686-3 that I bought new in the mid 80's. Not knowing any better, I put the lugged barrel in a padded bench vise, slipped a piece of hardwood scrap through the frame, and fixed it myself. The gun has shot fine for the past 30+ years. I'd do it again if I had to, only today I'd fabricate a better fitting set of hardwood frame blocks before turning.

My point is that canned barrels aren't anything new. The internet is, relatively speaking!

Lou
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Most all the later models Smith revolver barrels are a crush fit.
Just to restate, all one piece revolver barrels are "crush fit". If you think that the old style "pinned" barrels were just screwed into the frame until hand tight and the the pin was inserted would be 100% dead wrong. The fact is that the barrel's shoulder is trimmed so that when the barrel is threaded into the frame until hand tight, it is about 60 degrees before top dead center. The barrel is then tightened the rest of the way up to TDC using the appropriate wrenches and fixtures. The difference between installing a "pinned" barrel and a "crush fit" barrel is essentially the pin. The procedure is the same. Incidentally, hand tight is defined as being as tight as possible without the use of tools.

Quote:
I had a canted barrel on a 6" 686-3 that I bought new in the mid 80's. Not knowing any better, I put the lugged barrel in a padded bench vise, slipped a piece of hardwood scrap through the frame, and fixed it myself.
I'm sorry to say this but the procedure described in the above quote is the exact definition of "Bubba" whether it worked or not and is an excellent way to warp the frame. It's commonly known to pistolsmiths as the "hammer handle" method.

Bruce

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Old 10-18-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac View Post
I also have a theory as to how things like canted barrels aren't noticed right away, and that is due to "new gun excitement blindness". Yes, you heard it correct. If most people are like me, when they get a new gun, they are very excited to receive it. That excitement tends to cause things to be overlooked. That's how 2 got by me, which happened to be early on when I was still 'new'. I learned the hard way. However, if someone follows this advice from the start, it will save them from learning the hard way too.
I believe your theory is correct. New gun! you want it, you have been waiting for it, thinking about it for some time, maybe even dreaming of it, and you finally have it in your hands... now you are not going to put it down and suffer through all the longing again.

You subconsciously glaze over any minor non-catastrophic detail that is present. It is not until later when you have cooled down and are going over it with a more objective view that you realize the defect.

Happened to me with a new 686-6 pro series I bought a few months ago. I checked for a canted barrel in the shop... or did I? Anyway, once in my possession at home, CANTED BARREL

The front sight is leaning to the left, had to drift the rear almost all the way to the left stop to get it to cut center at 25m. It is correctable, but now I have to take in to account windage adjustment as well as elevation corrections for different distances. A QUALITY firearm shouldn't leave the factory with unsquared sights.
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