Hello everybody,

Just wanted to share with you a little something that happened this morning:

I took my S&W 65 3-inch to the range.
Shot 24 rounds of .38 Special. Accurate, soft, great, as usual.

Then proceeded to shoot 6 rounds of 357 Magnum. No problem there.

Loaded another cylinder with .357... didn't want to close... it was stiff. Pushed it in and the cylinder wouldn't rotate.

At first I thought it was the ammo (dirty chambers and casings not sitting fully in). It wasn't.

Removed the ammo, tried again and noticed the star/ratchet was grinding against the frame.

Thought the ejector rod was unscrewing itself. No, it wasn't.

After some more checking, I asked for solvent and a toothbrush. Cleaned under the star... Problem solved. Cylinder turning freely. Everything as usual.

I know what you may be thinking:
"You should clean and lube your guns, bro"

Well... this is the gun. Trust me.. it's squeaky clean and properly lubed:




Anyway...
I felt pretty bad after that.
I had shot only 30 rounds, and it jammed on me in the dumbest possible way. What if I was "on duty"? I'd be dead!

I consider myself a "revolver guy". I love and preach about their inherent reliability. They don't jam, or fail to feed or eject...or... uhm.. well, maybe they do?

Something like this ever happened to you? Did I screw up on something?

Kinda bummed on this one.
Look forward on hearing your opinions, thanks in advance.

Diego

Most common cause is shooting debris and/or unburned powder under the extractor, as you noted in your post. Usually caused by not using the proper procedure when unloading.
When unloading, turn the cylinder (revolver) completely upside down and then eject the spent casings. This helps prevent foreign material from getting caught under the extractor.
Another thing that will help is to keep this area clean and "oil free". Lubricants under the extractor can attract and catch debris and contribute to, or cause the problem you experienced.

__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Shush.........you are not supposed to tell about a revolver failure.
Yep it does happen yet a whole lot less often than a semi auto does.
The couple times a revolver failed for me was due to a cracked casing and head thickness was out of specks on some reloads. I did have a defective new GP100 Match Champion that was okay after Ruger repaired it.
I don't think I own a semi auto that hasn't failed to go bang some time or other. These are not cheap junk guns either. The last three semi autos I bought new have had failures to fire. This is why I carry a revolver for SD. IMO A revolver isn't perfect but it seems much more dependable than a semi auto.

This is usually caused by cheap, underloaded, range ammo. I've had similar problems with an auto and cheap reloaded ammo.

Duty grade stuff usually burns hot.

__________________
Qoheleth 12:13-14

I've had that happen. Last time I shot some old factory wadcutter stuff, I had to clean after every 6 shots. It was pretty filthy.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I usually load my range ammo with lower pressure and slower speed than what I carry for SD. If I shoot 100 rounds of my range ammo the revolvers are pretty dirty with a lot of powder debris. This happens in 38 spl, 357 magnum and even in my .44 magnum revolvers. I have come to expect this especially with the powders I use ,and they are notorious for burning dirty on their lower end of the spectrum. I bring a old tooth brush and clean them a little during my range time when they get a little gritty and the cylinder doesn't close or starts to drag.. Now when I bring full loads to the range with the same powders, or powders known to burn cleaner, while I still have the tooth brush on standby, it never comes out. I find low power loads with ball powder to be the biggest culprits.

As already stated, target loads usually don't burn as clean as hot loads. Some powders are cleaner than others. Keep the area under the extractor clean, dry and free of oil. If it's dry, a lot of times the junk will fall off by itself. If oily, it all sticks instantly.

As a reliability measure, you can take the extractor off and face off the underside of it a few thousandths deep, making sure to leave a ring of original material around the alignment pin holes. This should only be done by someone well versed in revolvers and machining.

ANYTHING made by man can fail. I have worked on guns for well over 40 years and I've seen revolvers with dirt under the star, split forcing cones, unscrewed ejector rods and loose barrels that came unscrewed. I've also seen my share of failures with semi-auto pistols.

I have 8 semi-autos and 40 revolvers. I try to keep them all well maintained, but I know that Murphy can strike at any time. Do your best to learn by your mistakes.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Barrel pointed straight up, firm push on the extractor.

Anything else - powder under the star.

I always hear issues like this because no one ejects the shells properly. It is not hard to do.

Take the gun, point the muzzle straight up in the air, the cylinder will be pointing up too, and eject the shells.

The cases will fall straight down and out, along with any debris left behind inside of them. Problem solved.

When you eject the cases with the gun horizontal, all the debris left in the shells falls down sticking to the cylinder surface where the ratchet rests and sticks on the ejector shaft itself, which then actually gets pulled into the cylinder when the ejector is released and the shaft returns inside.

Look at it this way -- how many personal defense gunfights go more than 30 rounds.

Besides what was already mentioned about tipping the revolver up to unload, it's not the best idea to shoot the shorter 38 rounds and then move up to the longer 357 rounds. Debris left from the 38's can cause the 357's not to chamber, which could have been your real problem here. Once you removed the rounds to clean under the extractor, whatever has holding the rounds may have fallen free.

__________________
So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I used to carry a sawed-off toothbrush along with my permit, but ejection with the muzzle skyward has worked well enough that I don't bother anymore. I probably should.

Good morning gentlemen,

You are most definitely right in your replies.

I acknowledge I must have induced the failure by user error:
- having a drop of oil in the extractor shaft
- not fully pointing the firearm up when unloading

Also it must be noted that I was using some dirty reloads. I used to shoot factory ammo only and never (not one single time) I had an issue with any of my revolvers.

Also, it doesn't help being a bit OCD and getting frustrated when things don't work out as they should.


OK now let's erase everything before the semi-auto crowd comes in and feasts on this.

Well, not trying to pick on you, but I would file that problem maintenance failure not gun failure thus implying a mechanical failure.

I've had the same happen to me with a 28. I now clean under the extractor after every outing.

Had it happen to me one time with my m29. A unburnt flake of Unique got under the star. I quit using Unique and started cleaning under the star more..

All of those accusing the OP of poor or inadequate maintenance are hardly being fair. These is no indication that his revolver was dirty to begin with. In fact, from his comments I'm guessing it was spotless when he started his 30 rounds.

The criticism about shooting Magnums after several cylinders of 38 Specials is valid. He should have run a stiff brush through the chambers and brushed under the extractor before firing the Magnums. But recall, he did chamber and successfully fired the first 6 rounds of Magnums with no problem.

My personal experience (you can't argue what I have personally had happened) is that good semi autos are more reliable than revolvers. This is based on thousands of rounds shot in practical pistol competition (both semi autos and revolvers) and training, to include myself and observation during 16 years as a firearms instructor. Revolvers do malfunction, in a variety of ways.

l have carried both for personal protection and will again. I am in no way suggesting revolvers are defective or not suitable for protecting your self, your family or your home. But believing they will never fail/malfunction is setting yourself up for the surprise the OP experienced.

Dave

__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Poster DaveT is a 'savvy hombre.' While I have read that revolvers are more tolerant of neglect, and semis are more tolerant of abuse, anything can happen and does. An EDC weapon should be inspected as often as possible. While here in the desert, we don't have rust, we DO have dust. Interesting how much dust can accumulate on a small revolver, even in pocket carry! A wipe-down with a rag will take care of the dust and fingerprints. A clean patch through the chamber(s) and bbl does not hurt.

Cartridges also bear examination. (A clean, separate rag for them, however, to protect the primers.) I once had a revolver cylinder fail to rotate because there was a burr on the rim face of a .38 factory round and the round did not fully seat. At least it happened on a range.

Good, safe shooting all!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

30 rounds ain't a gunfight, it's a war.

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

I have one of those-its a peach-a real shooters gun.

Sorry to hear that. The model 65 is my favorite K frame, wish I had mine back. The info will help others though, thanks for that.

My Dad used to say..." lessons learned hard are lessons learned well".

This is a timely post. I just had this happen with one of my 29-2 revolvers.

I was shooting light-magnum reloads. The cylinder started to bind and didn't want to close, and if it did close, it didn't want to lock in place.

This is the first time that has happened to me. I had no idea what the problem was.

This revolver is kept immaculate and lightly oiled, so we're not talking about a dirty, neglected gun.

After returning home and cleaning the revolver, it seems perfectly normal.

So perhaps there was some unburned powder that got stuck under the star.
I will start carrying a cleaning toothbrush to the range and watch for that.

Thanks

I think there's a pretty good chance that if you have discharged 30 rounds from your revolver while on duty and the situation has not been resolved, you're probably going to be killed weather or not your gun is dirty.

You should just trade it to me for my Talo 686. You know you want to. That nagging little voice in the back of your mind that keeps reminding you that the gun failed, and it might do it again? You need to relieve yourself of that pressure. You can't live like that.

__________________
Qoheleth 12:13-14

Well, Mr. Brasso, I wouldn't mind checking out that 686. Problem is I'm like 12 thousand miles away.

Would like to visit Alabama someday, but the 65 has to stay home.

I was just watching the news (leftist propaganda). So the deputy sheriff was testifying. She didn't even know she had been shot until her Jam-a-matic did the jam thing. Its a timely news blurb.

And the poster above predicted the jam fans would seize on it as proof their jam prone guns are somehow superior.

I even accept the idea that it was operator error as pointed out already. Just because you have made a revolver fire for you doesn't mean its the correct way to do it. Or that the way we all maintain guns is even acceptable.

I like to look at and handle guns. Mostly revolvers. But I've seen literally thousands of them with a mass of oil under the star. So the next time you see and handle a revolver, open the cylinder. Then press the extractor rod and really look. Many or most folks open the cylinder for the purpose of assuring the gun is empty. Go the extra step and look both at the underside of the star and the milled relief on the cylinder. You're looking for any trace of oil or lubricant. You shouldn't see any at all. If you do, you're looking at a gun that wasn't maintained properly. I don't care how experienced the owner says he is, if you can see even a thick film, its poor care.

Caring for your revolver doesn't inlcude spraying some lube product down each hole. From either end. It also doesn't include spraying in the hammer or trigger cut. Or putting a drop or 5 in those places (I recently heard the suggest to put 5 drops in each.) I don't care if its 10w-30, 3 in 1, CLP, or your mothers sewing machine oil. In the rust prevention thread someone mentioned spraying. Its OK to do that. But then the next step should be to dry off every place you can find that might have it still. Leaving a flood is a bad practice. Never, ever do it. An exception might be when you're putting the gun away for long term storage and you leave a note to completely use solvent and then dry the whole gun. Including the insides and the extractor and star.

__________________
Dick Burg

'Bout 30 years ago, a cop buddy brought me his M19 to work on. It cycled fine for 3 chambers and barely would rotate on the other three. After a while, I FINALLY looked under the ejector and found some unburned powder flakes.

I also worked with a sheriff's deputy who had bought a new M19. We were at the office one night and he decided to clean his gun. After wiping it down, he turned it upside down and started squirting 3 in 1 oil in around the trigger and then turned it over and did the same to the hammer recess!!!!! I tried to tell him to quit, but he said he wanted it good and oily so it wouldn't rust. Every time you dry fired it, oil would squirt out. I just shook my head.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The point about light ammo is valid. Conduct the same course(s) of fire with the stuff you carry for real, which is hopefully loaded differently than the plinking ammo to which you referred, and I bet you won't have that problem. Want to shoot the light stuff at the range for a while? I'll never criticize that - the most fun handgun I own is an M14 that I shoot with wadcutters. Go ahead, just give the revolver some attention at the end of that when you start back to serious ammo, and I'll bet this won't happen again.

I have had autopistols that did not malf. My Wilson KZ9 had a lot of magazine problems when I first got it, and I worked with the shop manager of the time to unscrew the magazines (it was a broad spectrum problem affecting the majority of the mags, not just mine). When I got it back, I ran through over 800 rounds of mixed ball and various duty ammo in a couple of range sessions (no cleaning, just lube - a good pistol should not need cleaning in so few rounds) without a malf.

I had a Yam 10-8 that had a few thousand rounds through it; 2 malfs with ammo for which it was not tuned (+P; it was tuned for standard pressure) and one with (issued) crud practice ammo. With quality ball (mostly Black hills, of course) or duty ammo (Gold dot 230, standard pressure), no malfs. There is a lesson there. My issued Glock 21 went through 700 rounds of ball and duty ammo when I first got it, no cleaning, just lube, and never malfed in the time I had it. My Glock 19L (customized 17 with the butt shortened to 19 length) has never malfed with any ammo. I no longer use cheap ammo, and have not for years, and have no problems. I do not recall having a malf with the used Sig 239 I bought some time back and use a lot as a fanny pack gun.

If you have a serious use autopistol that won't go 1000 rounds of duty/carry ammo without a malf (no cleaning, just lube) there is something very wrong. My Glock 33 has not malfed, but it does not get a lot of rounds at a time or between cleanings because it is not fun to shoot. Almost all autopistol malfunctions can be addressed with an immediate action drill; a revolver that does is likely out of action, or will at least take longer to address. I always carried a BUG in uniform, and sometimes still do - not because I was worried about a malf, but to allow for things like hand injuries etc.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

It happens with dirty powders. A quick swipe under the star with a dry pinkie finger will usually remedy the issue. It's good it happened. NOW you know how to clear it.

The 3-inch 10/13 and 64/65 revolvers are some of the best revolvers S&W built. They are built for a lifetime of use.

I quick tap on the ejector rod (doing the Universal reload) is all you need. Hitting it more than once is a sure way to have the star slip the rim or to introduce grit (unburned powder flakes) under the star.

Makes you appreciate the tolerances built into the "lowly" wheelgun...

Are you using a fast burning powder in your reloads?

When ejecting fired cases hold the muzzle straight up at the sky.

Always carry a "Backup" (same caliber as your service piece)