As of today, I just picked up my first S&W gun. Actually my first revolver by S&W. It's a 686 SSR pro. 6 shot, 357. Bought the gun online through Tombstone Tactical for $825. I am not an avid poster on these forums. More of lurker/observer for the past few years.

So I picked up the gun today from a local FFL. Looked over the gun, saw a few "dings" in the finish, but that didn't bother me. I was planning to give the gun a different finish later on, so I wasn't too concerned about the dings. I was kinda of expecting better from a $825 gun, to be honest. That's an entire paycheck for some people. The barrel looked even on the frame. I can't really tell if it's canted or not. I won't know for sure until I shoot it. I would be lying if I said I didn't say a prayer every day hoping this gun didn't have any issues during the time I waited for it to arrive at my FFL. (I've been reading these forums a lot). So buying a Smith & Wesson gun was a bit of a gamble for me.

I felt like I looked over the gun pretty good for any mechanical issues, or so I thought. Yup...rolled a pair of snake eyes...

After I bring the gun home I begin to dry fire it and noticing something odd with the cylinder stop. I didn't even think to look for this issue when I was at my FFL.

Basically when I put the gun in single action. I have to rotate the cylinder (in the correct direction) probably 1/32" to engage the cylinder stop. This happens on about 4 cylinder notches or chambers. Now once I dry fire the gun in single action, the force of hammer hitting the hammer block causing the cylinder stop to finally engage. Now I tried the same thing again, but this time with snap caps and the cylinder stop still fails to engage in the cylinder notches until the hammer hits the hammer block. The cylinder stop will not engage once the hammer begins to fall. It only engages on these 4 notches/chambers when the hammer hits the hammer block. I still get the same failure with the cylinder stop when dry firing the gun in double action as well.

Now my first thought was maybe there was a small burr on the cylinder notches or the star on the cylinder. So I took a diamond bit for my Dremel and created a very small bevel on the edges of where a bur might be. Then I cleaned it up with coarse, medium, fine, steel wool bits from my Dremel. So all the edges had a slight smooth bevel to them. Tested the gun again. Nope. Nothing worked. So I decided to do the same thing, but this time on the cylinder stop. I created a small bevel on the side of the side of stop, and smoothed out the bevel. Nope nothing. Cylinder stop still won't engage on these specific cylinder notches.

So now I am thinking it is the "hand", part 72. It's either too small or, the gaps in the star are off. I guessing at this point this whole issue is what you call a "timing issue". I think. If it's a simple fix, I would rather do it myself then sending it back to Smith & Wesson and just waiting on them. Keep in mind I still haven't shot the gun yet. The cylinders do appear to line up perfectly when looking down the barrel. However, I am bit leerious about shooting the gun with cylinder not locking up on 4 of these chambers.

Call customer service to send the gun in and have it test fired. Just tell em it's out of timing; like you said.

No one here I think will arm chair analyze a probable cause to the condition that can cause the gun to do what you said.

Play it safe. Confirm with a local gunsmith if you are reluctant to send it in.





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Timing issues are tricky. Messing with it yourself might not help and, worse yet, could void your warranty. I agree with Lou the Welder (above). And remember that warranty work is free (even shipping) and takes just 2 or 3 weeks (no time at all in the grand scheme of things -- and less time than most gun smiths I know).

Even if I chose to do this fix myself, it won't be happening any time soon. I looked online for the parts. Most places don't have it in stock.

I guess I will give S&W a call tomorrow and start the whole process.

I will report back as to what they had replaced. Hopefully that info will help someone else down the road.

Too bad about the initial experience being problematic, and wish you luck.

The S&W warranty means a short phone call, and a pre-paid shipping label can be emailed to you. FedEx even comes to your door to pick it up. You'll get email updates on its status.

Might want to put the Dremel away before you turn that SSR into a paperweight that the factory disowns, if you haven't already.

I just found out something interesting with the gun. I bought a pro series 686 ssr. However from what I've seen online, the right side of the frame has "Pro Series" lasered or etched into it. Mine doesn't have this. At first I thought, maybe the regular model was put into the pro series gun case by mistake. So I checked the handgun case barcode on the side. The serial number on the sticker matches with my gun. The label says pro series on the case.

So someone at the factory either a) put on the wrong side plate to the frame that did not have the "Pro Series" etched into the side. Or b) the gun did not get into the "etching phase" down the assembly line.

Keep trying to fix it and you will void the warranty. Actually because of your tinkering at this point S&W would be within their rights to void your warranty as soon as a technician sees what you have done. Chances are they will replace the cylinder stop you have damaged under warranty but it's a real NO NO to tinker with components that are critical to safe function and you have damaged that cylinder stop.

S&W actually has very good warranty service and the turn around has been reported many times on this forum to be 3 weeks or less. So call S&W and arrange to have your revolver serviced under warranty.

PS: the Pro series models do NOT get marked as such, it's the features of the revolver than "label" it as a Pro Series version.

I have a local gunsmith that is a very experienced, long time S&W revolver guy. I took him my new 627 a few months ago and he told me that nearly every new Smith he has worked on lately had hand timing issues.

Mine did as well, unlike yours, which seems to be a bit retarded, mine was too advanced. At the end of the DA trigger pull, it would get noticeably more difficult. The hand was still in motion even after the cylinder was locked and was fighting against the ratchet.

He reworked it and now it is a thing of beauty.

Scooter, thanks for the heads up!
However, don't get me wrong here with the tinkering! I have simply removed areas that had a burr. I am not removing tons of metal or drastically changing the shapes of these parts. The bevels I mentioned are so small you can barely see them with a magnifying glass. These were created from removing the burr's. Even after the attempted fix, it still didn't fix the cylinder lock up issues and the side to side play were the same after the burr removal. So nothing too drastically changed.

As for the Pro Series engraving, explain this to me;
http://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImage...wm_6180088.jpg

Did early models have etching?

Any time I hear Dremel tool and new gun I cringe.

Both of my ssr's have pro series etching on right side.

My 627 "pro" says "Pro Series" on the side, it is laser etched like the one you linked to.

I have an early one and it is etched Pro Series. Don't feel alone, I too have a minor timing issue but the gun shoots like a dream so I leave it alone and try to ignore it.

This happened to me with a 5" 629 classic I bought from Bud's Gun Shop back in December. My FFL received the weapon and as I was inspecting it prior to transfer, I found the cylinder to be out of time on 4 of the 6 chambers. I refused the transfer and my FFL sent it back to Bud's. Bud's sent a replacement and I had a new 629 in perfect shape 6 days later.

S&W should never let these new weapons out of their facility that are not mechanically sound. Very disappointing!

This is also getting to be a common occurrence. Pro models not shipped with etched sideplate. All pro models should have sideplates with etched "pro series" on sideplate. This is another warranty issue.





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Took the gun out 15 minutes ago. Put 80 rounds through it of 158 grain, 357 mag. Last 6 rounds I shot with a target 8 inches off to the side of the gun. The gun is spitting lead. Took it to my local gunsmith at the same range, told him what was going on. He stuck a feeler gauge down the barrel and confirmed the timing is off with the same cylinders that were not locking up.

I called Smith as well, they were able to confirm that yes, the gun should of have had that etching. Told them about the timing issues, and they said that is really not common with the Pro Series guns and apologized. Got set up with a fedex label, and going to be shipping the gun off soon.

The timing issue isn't too common with the 6 shot as with the 7. I had a 686+ go out of timing after 250 rounds. So I sent it in. No biggie. (Warranty)

You should always have them fix the gun first if it's a warranty issue. SAW makes it super easy to return with a label and for warranties, super quick for getting it back!

This forum has great info and even experienced gunsmiths that lurk here and there. They will give advice on anything that you could probably diy. I've done some diy stuff on my guns. Changed triggers. Springs, sights, usw. Even still , I wouldn't mess with the Timing if I had a warranty.

Send us a report back (maybe with pictures, we love pictures) and tell us how your experience went.

Lou

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I will definitely post the results as well as pictures when the gun comes back.

While I was waiting in line to drop the gun off to FedEx, I told the Fedex employee that a gun was being shipped(per shipping instructions).

Employee: What company is it going back to?
Me: Um...Smith & Wesson....?
Employee: You're the 3rd person today that has come in here to ship something to them...

There was a guy behind me who said, "I guess I am the fourth person today then".

I turned around to look at this guy.
He had a decent size box that a handgun might fit inside. I didn't ask him what he was shipping back.

This is very disconcerting.

Trust me. Once it's fixed right, you won't have to mess with it again. I've sent 4 different guns for totally different reasons and once they came back....they were/are perfect!

Don't let this experience dissuade you from buying a new gun. Many people say the older guns are the ones to get; but do you know how many times the older ones had to be fixed? And how many owners they had?

You can buy new. Use the warranty. Get the gun back. Have a perfect gun!

Have patience.

Lou

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I wanted to let everyone know I got the gun back today. It arrived at the S&W factory on April 5th. Arrived today May 4th. Almost a month. I didn't call S&W during this waiting period. S&W fixed everything that I documented in my letter. I also feel like the gun came back with a trigger job as well. The double action is smoother and the single action is much lighter then before. I dunno if it's because of the what they replaced.

Since the gun was going back to the S&W I asked if they could fix a few other issues that I did not mention here.
The ejector rod. At the very end of it where the grippy surface (kind of look likes the teeth of a metal file) of the ejector rod it looked like it got chewed up in machine that was cutting it. S&W fixed it.

The hammer really dragged on the left side of the frame. I believe this created a heavier pull in DA and SA. The hammer is now centered and it's easier to get the trigger to break quicker in double action.

The side plate (already mentioned here) now has Pro Series engraved.

As for everything else S&W fixed was the following;
Replace Extractor Rod
Replace Extractor
Repair Frame (I assume the Pro Series engraving?)
Replace Bolt (I don't know what that is on a Revolver)
Replace Hammer

I am very pleased with what I got in the end. I just wish this is what I ended up with when I picked the gun up from my LGS the first time. I am currently considering a model 66 at this time. I will be a little bit more cautious looking over a S&W gun in the future. Probably need to pick up a feeler gauge for 357 just to see if the timing is correct on a "new" S&W gun. If I do pick up a model 66, it will probably be my last S&W gun. I don't want to go through this experience again. ��

Here are some photos as promised. These were taken after the gun came back.







The black marks on the rear of the cylinder is from a sharpie that I used to show the chambers that weren't locking up.

Glad it worked out for you.
I'm having a vary similar issue right now. Last month I purchased a new, old stock ( 2015 vintage) 986 Pro Series off a reputable dealer on a well know auction site. (The price was low enough to make me overlook my distaste for Titanium cylinders and bite ). Three days latter when it arrived, I did a quick inspection at the receiving shop . Everything seemed as expected and functioned fine with normal quick DA dry firing. However, a routine thumb drag timing test showed retarded timing on all 7 holes to the point it would not lock up on any of them before the hammer fell. SA testing, showed similar faults on 3 of the holes at full cock. ( All, maybe 1/32" shy of lock-up so I also suspect a hand replacement will cure all.)
A quick message to S&W had a fed-x label emailed to me within 24 hrs. The gun has been back at the mother ship now (which is just 100 mi away) for about 7 days. I got notification just today they "received" it. I'm hoping "received" means "working" in this case but time will tell.

Bottom Line: I'm happy with the overall fit and finish of the 986, and happy with S&W CS (so far) but really have to wonder how a Pro series gun with obvious (Safety?) issues can get through the Pro/Performance center QA system.

Looks like its not a one time thing either.

__________________
Dave

To the OP: the problem is sometimes generically referred to as "timing" but it is correctly termed a "carry up" failure. In most cases it is the result of wear on the hand, frame and extractor stars. It definitely should not be seen on a gun with low mileage on it. It is repaired by installing a "wide hand" but it must be fitted so it is gunsmith only operation.

FYI: check carry up both for SA pull and DA pull with cylinder filled with fired brass to get proper reading.

Yes, this is often overlooked. The cylinder should have brass for carry up checking. Even pinned extractors can wear on the pins or have loose fit. DO NOT CHECK CARRY UP ON SMITHS TOUCHING THE CYLINDER. They are NOT tested with "light thumb pressure" on the cylinder.

If over time you have a slow cylinder or two, just give the corresponding rachet a few careful firm strikes with a flat punch near the edge and top. That is the correct technique for a well worn gun. If that doesn't fix it, which is never in my experience, I suppose a new hand would be in order.

A new weapon of course should be good to go. I have noticed so many new DCU "doesn't carry up" conditions (and I bring formed brass) primarily on Performance Center Guns. Now that I think about it, I haven't actually ever tested a new PC gun that did carry up on all cylinders in many years. It has been so long I can't even remember. Most of the line guns are perfect.

I was very nervous when I ordered my new 66-8 2.75, but it was perfect.

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