Just bought a model 60 since they run 357 as well as 38 I'm having trouble choosing what to carry as a defensive round. Was thinking about either .38 Spl Ammo by Hornady - 125gr JHP or .357 Mag Ammo by Hornady - 125gr JHP. Let me know what you think and why its a snub nose and i have heard many argument on grain size and length of the barrel so let me know what you think.
Thanks

I prefer the Speer .38 +P 135gr Short Barrel because the bullet is designed to expand at snubby speed, and I don't carry .357 in a snubby. If I had to, it would be something less than full mag power, like Golden Saber.
Suggest you shoot an IDPA BUG scenario with your candidates and see if you can hit anything at speed before you choose. Job one in defense is hit the target.

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Science plus Art

I carry 38sp Hornady Critical Defense or Critical defense lite in all my J frames. Even though I am sure it is very effective .357 is a little too much in my little Js.

If you want to carry .357 try the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel
35 gr. It's a mild load for . 357 and I find it manageable in my Model 60.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Good suggestions above. Since you can buy many .38 and .357 defensive loads in 20-25 round boxes, try a few and see which have good accuracy, tolerable recoil and won't break the bank. You may get along with full 125 gr .357s but probably not .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I have shot both .38 & .357 Hornady Critical Defense in my M640 hammer less snub nose. I carry the .357 Critical Defense round for two reasons. First, the .38 drops around 200 fps and 200 fpe.(8-900fps vs 1100 fps)from the .357 round. Second, there is a bit of difference in recoil but I would prefer stopping power over a minor pain in my hand for a couple of minutes. Think about this. How many rounds will you fire in self defense? 5-10 instead of going to the range and shoot 50 rounds at a paper target. At the range the paper target will Always lose. Will you win or lose in a self defense fight with a underpowered round? Placement is critical but stopping the threat is equally important.

Based on reviews that I have read, I have chosen to carry Winchester PDX-1 Defender .38 +P, 130grain in my 3" Mod. 60-15. Readily available and shoots point of aim at 10-15 yards. Can't ask anything more from a SD round.

I load my own lite loads in 357 cases, but if I had to buy my ammo, I would use Speer Short Barrel or 38 +p. Shooting any kind of serious 357 in a Model 60 is not much fun.

Why buy a .357 if you don't want to SHOOT .357???

Life is full of mysteries!

Thanks everyone I have not shot it yet, but am extreamly eager to see how it handels both 38 and 357 just wanted to get an opionion on what y'all carry. Like previously stated why buy a 357 if your not gonna use it!

There's a man who has his thinking cap on.

Why not buy a .38 snubbie? Less weight, too.



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I like the Speer Short Barrel 135 grain in .38 special in my j frame's. However, I just got the same round in .357 and although I haven't been to the range with them yet, I'm pretty excited about trying them. They maybe the new carry round in my Model 60 and 640.

My .357 Smith snubs (except the 360Sc with its titanium cylinder) like the 110gr .357 Mag. JHP loads. R-P and W-W load this bullet weight and offer it in 50-round boxes. The W-W version is often available at Walmart for about $27 a box.

I shot my Model 60 LadySmith .357 two weeks ago with the R-P 110 load and the Perfecta 158gr practice load. Both were controllable on pie plates, even with the UM boot grip. I won't shoot the 125gr "planetwreckers" in these guns, but may try the 145gr W-W Silvertip in the 60 next time out.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Groo here
If you "MUST" shoot 38's in a 357 ,,,
Clean well EVERY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I shoot a few 38's in my m-60 PRO but Most have been 357's.
110gr to 200 gr [Groo Monster Maulers]...
For a full time carry, look at the Buffelo Bore 38-44 loads
AKA Outdoorsman load.
158gr SWC at 1100 from a 4in, 1000 from a snub.
Hits hard , lower pressure [ 38 +P] short case to help ejection.
And also low flash..

Groo, ALL the loads I mentioned are .357s.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Because the same gun is not available in 38 Special, and because the platform has already been modified to accommodate 357 Magnum length and power level. I would rather have the 38 Special-only gun, but the manufacturer has to offer it that way. If you only have one or a few guns though, choosing versatility can make sense, given a realistic chance that 357 Magnum will actually be used on occasion.

My M&P 340 is loaded w/the Speer 135 grain +P b/c I've found that even the mildest .357 too much for accurate/fast follow up shots. I chose this no lock model in 2012 for the front sight as well as its light weight frame.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Casey, any of the ammo you mentioned should work just fine. Understand some guns "like" one style of ammo over another. Finding the right one can be trial and error.

I carry Underwood brand 38 special +P ammo ( 1200 FPS and 550 foot pounds of energy) in my 640, as .357 Ammo is just no fun to shoot in a J frame. I often load the same ammo in my 2 1/2" K frames.

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Always Stay Strong!

For many folks the J-frame class guns in .357 are heavier and have longer grips. Firing .38 Special is less powerful, but still effective. I carry the 638 with Hornady low recoil rounds because my wife can shoot it well. She carries the M 38 with a much better trigger.
Geoff
Who notes it's better to carry than not.

Speer 135 grain JHP 357 short barrel gets my vote.

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Foster Positivity.

In my 340 M&P, I prefer to carry the Buffalo Bore FBI load .38 158gr. LHPGC at 1000 fps. It's a stout .38, but effective and controllable. I also use it in my 640, but if I want .357 I use the Speer GD 135gr. JHP Short Barrel.

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Dave Frost

*warning* Novel ahead...

My overall philosophy* on SD ammo has two parts. One, reliability and shootability are more important than terminal ballistics, but as long as the first two conditions are met one would be best served using the best SD ammo available. Two, HP bullet weights in the medium-to-heavy range for caliber are preferable as they seem to offer the best balance between adequate penetration and expansion. In .38 Special/.357 Magnum I'd consider that to be 125gr and up.

I'm in the Speer .38 Special 135gr SB-GDHP camp. It's probably the best snub load right now. I find it controllable in my 642 so it shouldn't be a problem in a 60. It has a good track record in actual shootings, having been used by NYPD and, IIRC, Chicago PD.

My second choice is the Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158gr LSWCHP standard pressure load. Controllable in my 642. FBI loads, in general, have a good track record in actual shootings. Even when I had a .357 Magnum revolver, in my case a 3" 65, I carried this load over the +P version for the quicker follow-up shots.

If I couldn't find either of those, I'd probably try to find some Winchester .38 Special 130gr PDX1, or the similar Ranger ammo in the 50-round boxes.

I don't see a big advantage to using full-power .357 Magnum loads in a self defense snub. The higher recoil slows down follow-up shots. People often post about how you won't feel the recoil with the adrenaline of a self-defense encounter, but that doesn't change the laws of physics with regard to one's ability to fire multiple shots quickly. Add in that most self defense handgun rounds perform more or less the same in actual shootings, and I would just stick with .38 Special or mid-range .357 Magnum. And this is before considering the potential negative effect of the increased muzzle blast/flash.

Availability is the biggest downside to the .38 Special Speer load as it's produced in cycles. Fortunately, they're available in 50-round boxes for less than other SD ammo that's only sold in 20- or 25-round boxes so it's a bit easier to stock up.

But if you want to try some .357 Magnum SD ammo, I'd echo murphydog's recommendation to try a few and see how that works out for you. Same with .38 Special SD ammo. While I consider the Speer SB-GDHP to be the best choice, it may not perform as well as other options for you.

I did like the Speer .357 Magnum 135gr SB-GDHP in my 65, but it seems to be even less available than than the .38 Special version, and only available in 20-round boxes.

While I do have a preference for medium-to-heavy weight HP for SD, I'm not against the lighter weight bullets. My favorite .357 Magnum load to shoot was the WWB 110gr SJHP. Very easy to shoot with low recoil, and ballistics equivalent to 9mm 115gr +P, IIRC. I would feel comfortable carrying it. The biggest downside is that it does produce quite a bit of muzzle flash, which can be cool when shooting at an indoor range ( ) but not so much in a self defense encounter. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the US Marshals used a 110gr .357 Magnum load in their issue 3" GP100s before switching over to Glock.

Final thought (I promise!)...As Groo mentioned, if you shoot both .38 Special and .357 Magnum in your revolver, make sure to clean the chambers thoroughly. With the shorter cases, firing .38 Special in a .357 Magnum revolver can leave residue in the chamber that can prevent .357 Magnum ammo from being fully seated.



* My philosophy has evolved over the years as I learn more about what happens in actual shootings, and may change as time goes on.

S&W (and others) don't give us much choice. Except for Airweight models like the 442, they don't produce 38 Cal only revolvers anymore, and haven't for over two decades. Since the M60 dash 9 and 10 versions were introduced.
I like the 357 MGN versions because they let me load plus p plus, that is, over SAMMMI max loads, like the Speer 135 gr SB MGN loads. I think these have less power than the Buffalo Bore 38 Spec plus pee 158 gr LSWCHP, but I would prefer them for terminal performance of the bullet. But no full power MGN for me. Too slow on recovery. For ME!

Best,
Rick

I've been carrying a J Frame of some sort or another since 1978. Back then decent SD ammo needed to be either hand loaded or you used the FBI load 158 Gr, LSWC-HP+P. Well over the years I have pretty much settled on the FBI load for my primary SD load. It works!

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Support your Police, & NRA

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revo...llistics-test/

Should provide some insight into what works well in short barreled revolvers.

I bought this 60-16 chambered in 38 Special +P a few days ago. The 357 models are the same price but was holding out for the 38 only model. The gun is well made for a newer production Smith & Wesson. I like the Remington Golden Sabre 125 gr. 38 Special +P.

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