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Old 04-15-2017, 04:59 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Thumbs down New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.

Second trip back. This revolver was a lemon. I should not have accepted it at my local FFL for the transfer. We couldn't get the crane to open. We messed with it for ten minutes before I slammed it on the counter to get the cylinder down. S&W changed a bunch of parts and opened the forcing cone A LOT. The thing won't group and is tight on several cylinder holes. I took it to my local range and the gunsmith there said the rifling in the barrel didn't look complete. He shot it and was amazed at how bad the trigger was. He couldn't get it to group either. When the revolver is empty everything works smoothly but put some rounds or snap caps in it and it tightens up.
He gave me the email of the local S&W sales rep and I told him what had happened and sent him the paperwork from S&W from the first trip back. We sent the revolver back in again.
I'll post what happens next here.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:28 PM
DumpStick DumpStick is offline
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Yeah, seems Taurus can't, or won't make a good revolver.... wait.....

Did you say S&W ?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It sure seems that QC has gone downhill in many companies.
Hope you get this squared away.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:08 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpStick View Post
Yeah, seems Taurus can't, or won't make a good revolver.... wait.....

Did you say S&W ?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It sure seems that QC has gone downhill in many companies.
Hope you get this squared away.
This revolver showed up during FireArmageddon and they had six of them that sold out in one day. I wish every day I'm alive that I had never sold my 63 six shot four inch square butt revolver back in 1990. I honestly thought back then that they would always be available and of the highest quality. Again, I was mistaken.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:21 AM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Default On it's way back.

I wonder two things...
Would it have sat there a few more weeks if I had not emailed?
Did they fix it this time?
It's being shipped to my gun range. The gunsmith will check it out and if not in good working order will contact S&W again.
I hope they replaced it.

Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2017 12:17 PM
Hi Mr. xxxxxxx,
Your firearm is being shipped today, here is the tracking info, very sorry for the delay

Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:31 PM
Hi Mr. xxxxxxx,
I have not heard either, and have sent an urgent communication...it appears the firearm is ready to return to you, but hasn't shipped, trying to confirm why, will advise asap
xxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: RMA CYFxxxx
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:31 PM
Hi xxxxxx,
I never got a response.
Thanks,
xxx

On 5/11/2017 5:31 PM, xxxxxxx wrote:
> Good afternoon, Mr. xxxxxxx,
> I will be out of the office tomorrow, but I have forwarded this to
> others for some information for you, sincerely sorry for the delay,
> xxxxxx

> Subject: RMA CYFxxxx
>
> Hi xxxxxx,
> My name is xxx xxxxxxx and I sent a S&W Model 63-5 revolver in for a second time due to poor performance.
> The RMA is the serial number of the revolver CYFxxxx.
> The FedEx package arrived at the S&W service center on April 13th, 2017.
> Is there any update on this revolver you can pass along to me?
> Thank you,
xxx xxxxxxx
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:01 AM
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I bought a new one when they first came out. It has worked perfectly ever since.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:28 AM
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Lately it seems that most manufacturers, S&W, Ruger, Charter Arms, Taurus, Kimber etc. are relying on either their dealers or the customer who buys the gun to be the final quality check.
My friend has to send back firearms from just about every company his store deals with because of obvious defects. He just returned a Ruger LCP because the trigger stuck to the rear when he pulled it to check the action. How did that revolver get by the QC?
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:33 AM
gnystrom gnystrom is offline
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The OP's third sentence was correct and this story would have ended there.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:49 PM
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I wish people would have their problem fixed and THEN post to tell us all about it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:56 PM
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I sent my 63 back for a clocked barrel. S&W fixed it - well mostly, it's still slightly off and returned it quickly. I am satisfied, but I won't buy another that I can't inspect first. Mine is a great shooter.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:50 AM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus357 View Post
I wish people would have their problem fixed and THEN post to tell us all about it.
If they'd fix it I would. It is scheduled to arrive at my local range today. I'll post what they did, how it shoots and whether or not it gets sent back.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:02 AM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamloco76 View Post
Lately it seems that most manufacturers, S&W, Ruger, Charter Arms, Taurus, Kimber etc. are relying on either their dealers or the customer who buys the gun to be the final quality check.
My friend has to send back firearms from just about every company his store deals with because of obvious defects. He just returned a Ruger LCP because the trigger stuck to the rear when he pulled it to check the action. How did that revolver get by the QC?
These QC issues sort of remind me of the US auto makers of the late 1970s and 1980s. Get it built and get it out. However, I have a model 60-15, M&P Shield 9, Victory .22, M&P Compact .40 and a Walther PPK made by S&W that are all flawless.
I'm an airgun tuner and a lot of the German rifles made in the 2000 to 2010 range were terrible. Weihrauch and Diana have retooled their factory and now produce some of the best air rifles ever.
I wish S&W would do the same. But it appears they are wringing every last dollar they can out of their product. Probably pushing their employees too hard and giving the familiar industrial cry "Let it gooo".
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:06 AM
twodog max twodog max is offline
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Just an opinion here but I think that the root problem is the modern manufacturing and its ability to adapt its product. Face it revolvers are a lot different product than the modern semi auto handguns that are a mass production designed product. Revolvers are holdover from a time of hand craftsmanship and cheap skilled labor. These days companies like S&W are struggling to keep revolvers in production and reduce the need for skilled high priced labor for fitting. IMO they and all others have not yet figured out how to do this on the scale consumers demand. Frankly I am amazed at how well they do. I have had a couple of returns to S&W and others but so far have only had positive results. Like everyone else I miss the old days of works of handfitted art but unless there is a dramatic shift in the industrial arena those days are long gone to likely never return. It is my hope that S&W will figure out how to produce revolvers with the consistent quality consumers expect.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:21 AM
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I recall when my agency replaced our aging Model 15 w/the new stainless revolvers, 4" for uniformed and 2" K frame for commanders & detectives. Many had to be worked on at the range and several went back to the factory so it seems little has changed from the late '70s. I don't mean to knock S&W, they still produce one of the best revolvers on the market. It could be that market forces have impacted all firearm companies b/c it seems they all have similar problems.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:24 AM
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Maybe S&W should simply mass manufacture the guns, and then send to various "finishers" who do the final fit and finish and function check QC. Then let competition between the multiple finishers compete for level of fit, finish and price. Some finishers will do minimal work and function test and they would sell for the least amount. Other finishers would be truly custom including trigger jobs etc and would be top dollar. Others will fall somewhere in between.

Just a different supply and distribution process rather than direct S&W to FFL. Sure it might add some costs, but the public and the reputation of the finishers will establish themselves and the buyers would have increased confidence in the quality, and someone to go back to if they find something amiss who has a direct motivation to make the customer happy so as to not harm their reputation. The internet is instantaneous with both praise and complaints. They cannot afford to have too many complaints or they may not be in business long.

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Old 05-18-2017, 05:35 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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They fixed it. No note this time but they included a target of groups. The binding is gone. It shoots just like I expected. I opened it up and it looks like they replaced everything but the frame and barrel.
I'm very please that I have a 63 again.
AA
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnystrom View Post
The OP's third sentence was correct and this story would have ended there.
So correct!

Why, in God's name, would anyone purchase a gun that they, your quote, "We messed with it for ten minutes before I slammed it on the counter to get the cylinder down"?
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:24 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwt1405 View Post
So correct!

Why, in God's name, would anyone purchase a gun that they, your quote, "We messed with it for ten minutes before I slammed it on the counter to get the cylinder down"?
Because there were none to be had. Don't you remember a few years ago?
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamloco76 View Post
Lately it seems that most manufacturers, S&W, Ruger, Charter Arms, Taurus, Kimber etc. are relying on either their dealers or the customer who buys the gun to be the final quality check.
My friend has to send back firearms from just about every company his store deals with because of obvious defects. He just returned a Ruger LCP because the trigger stuck to the rear when he pulled it to check the action. How did that revolver get by the QC?
I know of no manufacture in America with a QC department. They died out over 20 years ago.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:44 PM
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Well, after cleaning it I noticed the timing was slow. I called again and now my revolver is going to the super guru according to S&W customer service.
Back it goes for the third time.
AA
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:36 AM
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I was going to buy a 929 but my 986 has a visible rifling defect and will be returned to S&W. My next gun will be a Dan Wesson Silverback. S&W's shoddy workmanship has cost them a sell. Now and in the future!
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:50 AM
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By the late 19th Century, companies like Winchester had their piece-worked parts spec'd out closely enough to achieve almost total interchangeability. For instance, you can still take an unaltered high wall barrel from one rifle and have a high likelihood that it will clock up correctly on another, unaltered, receiver. If they could do this by hand 125 years or more ago, it should be achievable with modern technology such as CNC & CAM, wouldn't you think?

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Old 05-25-2017, 09:05 AM
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It always helps when you "slam" something down. I'm sure you informed the service department that you "slammed" it.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:33 PM
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It always helps when you "slam" something down. I'm sure you informed the service department that you "slammed" it.
Yes, I did.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AlwaysArmed View Post
Because there were none to be had. Don't you remember a few years ago?
I do, very well.

But I also know that I would NEVER except a firearm, like that.

Also, I have never been in the situation of "needing" to buy a firearm, in a situation like that, because I prepared prior to such circumstances.

As a matter of fact, those situations are some of the rare times that I will sell firearms, as I have gotten the best prices at those times, and then bought more AFTER the circumstances corrected themselves.

“Chance favors only the prepared mind.”
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:56 PM
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Because there were none to be had. Don't you remember a few years ago?
I meant no ill will toward you.

And I wish you luck with the revolver.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:11 AM
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No ill will taken from anyone here ever. If I were that kind of guy I wouldn't post. We are a community of seekers and helpers.
I've worked on machines for a living for the past 35 years. Most of them would make an automatic transmission look as complicated as a spoon.
The real question here is, why would S&W let a revolver leave their manufacturing floor in that condition? I think I know the answer. Money. During those days they could sell every gun they made. Push, push, push was probably the mantra of management back then.
But I honestly felt that there was some burr or flake of shaving in the revolver that I could fix. Not so.
So I sent it back. It was better, but not acceptable. I sent it back a second time with the kind help of the gunsmith at Denver Defense. It was better, but not acceptable.
I called to order an extractor to try to fix it myself and the guy said "We can't sell you one of those. They have to be hand fit. Send the gun in". That's when I told him I already sent it in twice. How many times would I have to send it in? He asked for the serial number and put me on hold. He sits in the same office with the woman who helped me with the second repair and she overheard our conversation and she got involved. They both have been there for decades and they both profusely apologized for the trouble I have had and the below average workmanship performed on the repairs. And after giving them the serial number of the revolver they were able to see every note and picture I sent.
They sent me a next day air shipping label and called me back several times to assure me this issue would be resolved this time. The shipping label was directed to a person, not customer service. The two people I spoke with said this department handles problem guns like mine. We shall see.
But if you guys only want to hear sweet songs of praise for every gun (which is simply a machine) made by S&W you won't get it.
This is merely my experience. And, S&W is aware of this forum and it is read by their management regularly. If a bad gun gets out and only the customer knows about it that's one thing. But this thread has been viewed 1363 times. That is important to S&W and helps to police their QC. And I believe it's important to the readers here as well.
This thread is not a rant, rave or whine. It's a real experience. Should I have sent the gun back? Yes. Should I have not handled that sharp knife improperly when I was six years old? Yes. But I can't change the past.
Should I have sold the revolver to someone else and let it be their problem and bought another one since they are now available? Hell no! That isn't me.
I'll keep you posted.
AA

Last edited by AlwaysArmed; 05-26-2017 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysArmed View Post
The real question here is, why would S&W let a revolver leave their manufacturing floor in that condition? I think I know the answer. Money. During those days they could sell every gun they made. Push, push, push was probably the mantra of management back then.


This thread is not a rant, rave or whine. It's a real experience. Should I have sent the gun back? Yes. Should I have not handled that sharp knife improperly when I was six years old? Yes. But I can't change the past.
Should I have sold the revolver to someone else and let it be their problem and bought another one since they are now available? Hell no! That isn't me.
I'll keep you posted.
AA

I totally get both points and agree!

Best of luck with it, and do keep us posted.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:56 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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UPDATE:
I contacted S&W customer service while this revolver was there. My contact was out on medical. When she got back she said she would wait until the service had been done on this revolver then send it to the supervisor and have him check it again. The supervisor said nothing was wrong with it and they shipped it back next day delivery.
I got a chance to take it to the range yesterday and put about 800 rounds of good to premium ammo through it. CCI SV & MM, S&B, Federal UM & Champion, Aguila SV, HV, Pistol Match and HyperV as well as others.
The timing is perfect now.
But, it keeps binding. The trigger is variable on every chamber and it shoots lead back into my face again.
10 yard groups are about 3 inches with the ammo it likes best. Sellier & Bellot HV HP, Aguila Super Extra HV and surprisingly, the round it liked best was Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Velocity.
It didn't like anything CCI and bound up on SV & MiniMag 40 & 36 grain. Strangely enough, I had a 50 box of Stingers that was at least 20+ years old. It fired every round.
It's alright out to 7 yards I guess. So, I'll get a brick or two of Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Velocity and try to work on the best accuracy I can get with this revolver.
I also have a set of Wolf springs for J frame. I'll work with them to get a lighter trigger with reliable ignition.
Thanks S&W Forum. I guess we all get lemons every once in a while. I'll try to make lemonade out of this one.
Happy Independence day. You can thank courage, veterans and guns for that.
AA
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2017, 06:03 PM
tguil tguil is offline
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New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.  
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For the past several months, I've been looking for a new Model 63. Think that I'll quit looking and continue to enjoy my heavy but very reliable stainless Ruger Mark II.
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  #30  
Old 07-04-2017, 06:05 PM
DumpStick DumpStick is offline
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New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.  
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3" groups at 10 yds with a 3" barrel 22 revolver ?

You could do worse.

Personally, if it were mine, I would take it to the next gun show, and come home without it.
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  #31  
Old 07-04-2017, 08:41 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tguil View Post
For the past several months, I've been looking for a new Model 63. Think that I'll quit looking and continue to enjoy my heavy but very reliable stainless Ruger Mark II.
I hear ya.
I have a 22 Victory with a red dot on it that will group 1.5 inches at 25 yards all day.
But I wanted a kit gun I could keep in a small holster when hiking through the woods around here.
Maybe somebody will make a better set of sights for it. I have a nice leather holster for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpStick View Post
3" groups at 10 yds with a 3" barrel 22 revolver ?

You could do worse.

Personally, if it were mine, I would take it to the next gun show, and come home without it.
I guess my 63 four inch that I sold years ago spoiled me. That thing was great. I see them all the time on gun broker for $1000 to $1300. That price is just stupid.
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  #32  
Old 07-04-2017, 11:39 PM
VaTom VaTom is offline
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New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.  
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[QUOT
I guess my 63 four inch that I sold years ago spoiled me. That thing was great. I see them all the time on gun broker for $1000 to $1300. That price is just stupid.[/QUOTE]

Bought a 63 no dash several years ago on GB for 650. Thought I paid too much but now that I see the prices they are bringing I feel good about what I paid. Very nice piece and fun to shoot .
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  #33  
Old 07-05-2017, 04:48 AM
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chief38 chief38 is offline
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If they can NOT iron your M63 out to your satisfaction demand they give you your money back and then buy a VINTAGE M63. You will pay handsomely for one, but they are TERRIFIC! Mine has been running great ever since I bought 25 or 30 years ago. It's only the traditional 6 shots but that's what I prefer anyway.
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2017, 12:32 PM
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nipperdog nipperdog is offline
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New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN. New Model 63 going back to S&W AGAIN.  
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I bought my M63 several years ago to replace a "New Model" Ruger SP-101 22lr that I Absolutely Hated for Numerous Reasons. The M63 has been perfect in every way and a Joy to Shoot. When I want to shoot a .22 Revolver I usually grab the M63, and leave my 4" M617 languishing in the Safe.
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2017, 12:52 PM
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gwpercle gwpercle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysArmed View Post
This revolver showed up during FireArmageddon and they had six of them that sold out in one day. I wish every day I'm alive that I had never sold my 63 six shot four inch square butt revolver back in 1990. I honestly thought back then that they would always be available and of the highest quality. Again, I was mistaken.
Years ago when I was about 17 my Daddy, who I thought was the dumbest human on Earth told me " Never sell a gun you like, even if you just like it a little" That old man wasn't as dumb as I thought. So many say " I wish I had never sold that gun"
I have only sold one...I hated the thing .
Gary
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:54 PM
AlwaysArmed AlwaysArmed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
If they can NOT iron your M63 out to your satisfaction demand they give you your money back
I already asked them to replace it or buy it back. They said "Nothing wrong with it". But there is no way they shot the thing. It's obvious.
AA
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2017, 11:06 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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I have said this on other posts: We are collectively the ones who let quality slip, because we will not pay for top quality firearms. We have encouraged manufacturers to reduce costs and let inferior product slip through and let the unfortunate buyer have it fixed rather than make it right in the first place. We get the quality that we are willing to pay for.
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