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Old 04-18-2017, 11:55 PM
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Default A "lock" thread...just an idea, not a complaint...

Here's the idea...hide the lock hole entirely behind the cylinder release thumb latch. This might call for the lock hole to drop a millimeter or two and maybe redesign the latch with a slight hump, or both, but it can be covered with the latch in resting position. The lock hole would be exposed only when the release is pushed forward.

Not sure what I am trying to accomplish here...just thinking out loud.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:04 AM
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You can't just put the lock anywhere. It has to be in a specific place in the mechanism.




Last edited by Wise_A; 04-19-2017 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
You can't just put the lock anywhere. It was to be in a specific place in the mechanism.
I appreciate that. Just thinking things could be tweaked a bit. There's not a lot of ground to cover. The hole sits right on top of the latch right now. Again, you can make up some of that just by slightly redesigning the latch with a slight hump.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by NCBeagle View Post
...just thinking out loud.
I like that concept. Socrates, Aristotle, and the boys believed in that. It seemed to work well for them, and we're still studying it!
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:56 AM
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Default Or......

Or, like you said, make the cylinder release bigger or change its shape so that it covers the lock in its present position. Good idea. It's nice to know that people are thinking.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:35 AM
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Best way to skin this cat is to never put the lock on the gun in the first place.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:38 AM
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Change the shape of the cylinder release to an "L".
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:54 AM
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I bet if someone had the know how and skill to sell redesigned release latches that covered the hole, they would have a good market to sell to!

Personally, I don't care for the plugs. The arrow showing which way to turn the lock is still there too. Hate the IL and dislike the plugs.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCBeagle View Post
Not sure what I am trying to accomplish here...just thinking out loud.
It's not a bad idea at all. A hidden IL would be the next best thing to no IL at all. Even I could probably live with that.

Patent the idea... QUICK!!!
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:03 AM
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Is S&W legally obligated to make guns with the locks? Other than politicians, who is asking for guns with locks? Here we are on a forum dedicated to these fine firearms and the vast majority of shooters and collectors here don't like the lock. Others just "don't mind" them but few people actually like them. Why doesn't S&W drop the lock from production or just make it a special order option? We are their bread and butter, not the politicos. I understand that when the locks were originally agreed to, the political climate was different and S&W had to do what they did to stay viable, but times have changed. Isn't there some way to petition S&W to produce the guns we want? Would be cheaper for them to make because of fewer parts and less complex design. Maybe I'm nuts, but I think they should cater to us who actually care about the product and history of these fine revolvers. Rant complete.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:19 AM
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Just in the past couple of years I have purchased six new to me S&W revolvers. All have been pre-owned, pre-lock. I for one do not like the lock, and I would have purchased all my revolvers new if the new ones didn't have the locks. I don't think S&W is doing themselves any favors catering to the lawyers and the anti-gun crowd.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSarge21 View Post
Why doesn't S&W drop the lock from production or just make it a special order option?
That would be like admitting they were wrong in the first place. Big companies just don't do that. Take a look at United Airlines as an example.

And the media, especially in a place like Mass, would do a number on them. They (S&W) don't have the fortitude or conviction to take that on. It easier and cheeper to just keep the lock, as they are currently set up to build their revolvers with the IL.

My $.02 worth,
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
Just in the past couple of years I have purchased six new to me S&W revolvers. All have been pre-owned, pre-lock. I for one do not like the lock, and I would have purchased all my revolvers new if the new ones didn't have the locks. I don't think S&W is doing themselves any favors catering to the lawyers and the anti-gun crowd.
Same here. Ruger and older pre-IL Smith & Wessons have gotten all my revolver business. It's crazy that S&W doesn't care about all the business they are losing.

I am struggling hard right now with the notion of buying a brand new 6" Model 17 Classic since I've had such a ridiculous hard time finding the right K-22 Masterpiece in used/pre-IL... but I just can't bring myself to do it. I will very likely end up with a 6" Ruger GP100 .22 instead.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:40 AM
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I don't use the lock, but it just does not bother me. No offense to those who the lock bothers.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:54 AM
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If most would read the instructions on how to use the loc properly and not fiddle with it they would be ok. When I first purchased every new s&w with the IL I closed the cylinder installed the key in the loc and checked to see if the loc functioned correctly. I then unlocked it and that's the way they sit. Don't play with the loc with the cylinder open.

I know some people will fiddle with things. I had my buddies race mopar running like a Swiss watch yet he was one of those who fiddle with things even though it was running correctly. I reset everything he changed. If you have to fiddle with things get a erector set.

Mr S&W if your reading this do a engineering redesign and put the love on the main spring. Either in the front of the grip frame or on the rear of the grip frame depending on which design the revolver is.

Last edited by BigBill; 04-19-2017 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:02 PM
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The last time I said something about the locks, I got dinged.

They say if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

(sound of silence)

John
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:37 PM
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Why doesn't S&W just do away with them, all together? Then lower the price. I mean Clinton's out of office, isn't he.
Steve
  #18  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:53 PM
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My dad used to say....."son the next time you get a brilliant idea.......keep it to yourself". I reckon most of my ideas growing up didn't quite measure up most of the time.......
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
If most would read the instructions on how to use the loc properly and not fiddle with it they would be ok. When I first purchased every new s&w with the IL I closed the cylinder installed the key in the loc and checked to see if the loc functioned correctly. I then unlocked it and that's the way they sit. Don't play with the loc with the cylinder open.

I know some people will fiddle with things. I had my buddies race mopar running like a Swiss watch yet he was one of those who fiddle with things even though it was running correctly. I reset everything he changed. If you have to fiddle with things get a erector set.

Mr S&W if your reading this do a engineering redesign and put the love on the main spring. Either in the front of the grip frame or on the rear of the grip frame depending on which design the revolver is.
My wife has a Rossi 352, their lock is on the hammer. I threw the key away when she first got it, about 20 years. Rossi, and Taurus have always copied S&W. On the IL they should have copied R&T.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:16 PM
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Default A "lock" thread...just an idea, not a complaint...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
If most would read the instructions on how to use the loc properly and not fiddle with it they would be ok. When I first purchased every new s&w with the IL I closed the cylinder installed the key in the loc and checked to see if the loc functioned correctly. I then unlocked it and that's the way they sit. Don't play with the loc with the cylinder open.
???
My manual says to engage and disengage the internal lock with the cylinder open, and that the cylinder may be opened and closed with the IL locked.

Maybe thats why mine locked up under recoil...
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:19 PM
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The best lock post ever.

Bashing, Crying, & Whining

I'd love to be a mod for just a week.

Last edited by ladder13; 04-19-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:33 PM
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Hey! Let's remove the seat belts and air bags in most of our cars! It's a safety device! Big deal! In the last 300,000 miles; I can assure you I've never needed my seat belt as I've haven't been in an accident in that long, but in how much trouble would I be in if I grabbed a ratchet and socket and removed my seat belts. Just because I didn't like the way they looked!

Not gonna happen. The lock? Not gonna go away. It would be hard to remove a so deemed "safety device" even if it's so hated. It would be hard for the company to go back (or forward?) And start making revolvers without locks. (Although, in the current catalog, there are 3? A 442,642 and a 640pro? Right?)

I used to love getting in my old Nova with just a lap belt. And even sometimes without. Those days are past too.

Hey. Let's start making cars with carburetors and R12 a/c too! We all know R12 cooled alot better and faster but we all gotta use R134a . Also not gonna happen.

If having the gun disabled, prevents one childhood death in a million. It would be worth it. Sorry. Ugly lock stays.





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Old 04-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Is S&W legally obligated to make guns with the locks? Other than politicians, who is asking for guns with locks? Here we are on a forum dedicated to these fine firearms and the vast majority of shooters and collectors here don't like the lock. Others just "don't mind" them but few people actually like them. Why doesn't S&W drop the lock from production or just make it a special order option? We are their bread and butter, not the politicos. I understand that when the locks were originally agreed to, the political climate was different and S&W had to do what they did to stay viable, but times have changed. Isn't there some way to petition S&W to produce the guns we want? Would be cheaper for them to make because of fewer parts and less complex design. Maybe I'm nuts, but I think they should cater to us who actually care about the product and history of these fine revolvers.
Politicians, Hillary, Bill, etc.....are not responsible for Smith and Wesson's having locks. It is great to blame them, get the crowd stirred and rally support for the cause, but it is all false.

No agreement between Smith and Wesson and the US Government was ever fully signed and executed, no matter what the news media would have liked you to believe. No document exists that contains both government and corporate signatures on it.

So what really happened . . . . .

Just prior to the turn of this century, Smith and Wesson was on the precipice of financial collapse. An American Icon that would not have survived the next several years. Sales were in the toilet and dropping. Tompkins, the British Company that owned Smith and Wesson, had already raided any valuable holdings that Smith and Wesson had. Some of you might recall the auctioning off of the Factory Museum Collection in the 90s. All the cash went to the British.

Since Smith and Wesson was a British holding at the time, so the corporation was not overly objectionable to discussions with Government and this is were talks with the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development began.

Lots of stuff went back and forth over many months even years, however no document that was agreeable to both sides ever came to be.

In the second quarter of 2001 an Arizona based gun lock company called Saf-T-Hammer bought Smith and Wesson back from the British. The deal was so sweet, I would have found the money to do it if it had been offered to me.

It should be no surprise to anyone here that when a Lock company buys a gun company, eventually locks will be incorporated in to the guns.

If Good Year bought Maserati, I would certainly expect that the tires on NEW Maseratis would soon be Good Years and I would expect all the Pirelli fans to complain about it for years to come.

Thanks to Saf-T-Hammer, Smith and Wesson is AMERICAN once again

In the last 15 years, Saf-T-Hammer has brought greatness back to Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson produces around 1,250,000 firearms each year now according to 2015 ATF reports. 989,000 of that was handguns in 2015. That is 5 times their 1999 British Owned firearms production.

The 20,000+ members of this fine forum do not even come close to being "the vast majority" of Smith and buyers. That is presuming that every one of the members here are active in the shooting sports and disciplines, which obviously they are not.

We are the tiny minority of Smith and Wesson purchasers. As much as I would like to believe it as well, we are not even close to being Smith and Wesson's bread and butter.

I do not find the lock aesthetically pleasing, but it is there, it is going to be there so I ignore it.

Last edited by colt_saa; 04-19-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:02 PM
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S&W was bought for 15 million in 2001 and is worth today, with a few aquisitions since then, about 1.2 billion.
I'd say they're doing just fine, as well as their stockholders.

A bit off track though.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:09 PM
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I just bought a Rossi 971 that has the Taurus hammer mounted lock. Very hard to notice this set up.Why Smith decided to go with their ugly version is what upsets most people.I have two SA 1911 GI remakes that both have the lock on the grip frame.I honestly forgot about three times that they have locks on them.Again somewhat hidden and out of sight,and still have locks.

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Old 04-19-2017, 02:11 PM
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Question: If you remove the lock and replace with a "plug," does it leave a gap along the hammer where the flag lives?
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:10 PM
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LOCKS.. Thank you all for your ideas and input..


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