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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 04-22-2017, 08:19 PM
mainegrw mainegrw is offline
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Default Unhappy Day With My Latest Purchase...

This morning I picked up what I thought to be a very good condition used 617-6 from a major nation-wide chain of sporting goods stores. When I viewed the gun, it was with all of its original accessories, case, and paperwork, and despite being fairly dirty, appeared to be in great shape, so I picked it up.

My usual first step with a new preowned firearm is to clean it, especially rimfire guns, before taking them to the range, and I was glad I did just that. After applying bore cleaner, I ran a bore snake through the barrel, then peered inside to inspect my work, and there it was, a large and pronounced bulge ring about 2" from the muzzle end of the barrel. At that point, I packed the gun back up, got back in the car and returned to the store, to hopefully get my money back.

It just so happens that the store had a S&W promotional event happening, and thus S&W had 2 sales reps on site today. Rather than take the gun in return, or take steps to initiate a repair process, they dragged the more senior of the two reps into the office to inspect the gun.

This is where things get weird: The rep takes a bore light, proceeds to look down the barrel, and tell me there is nothing wrong, and that I don't know what I am talking about. Now, I have seen bulged barrels on center fire guns before, sadly more than I would like to over the past few years, and I can tell you for sure that I know a bulge when I see one. After several minutes of back and fourth, the rep offers that maybe something is wrong, definitely not a bulged barrel (after all, apparently 14 years as a S&W sales rep makes him an expert gunsmith), and that I should not return the gun to the store, instead ship it up to S&W for repair, and get this, "free of charge" under waranty, including shipping. Oh, and did I mention they could turn it around in a couple weeks as well? I argued the point that S&W will not repair damage caused by bad ammo, or misuse free of charge, and again was told that I don't know that it's not a defect, and they will take care of it no matter what. So, seeing as I like the 617 otherwise, and I still have 9 more days on my store function garentee, I decided that I will give the S&W customer service route a try. We shall see what they say when i request the generous service offered by the sales rep I spoke to. Granted, I don't expect much other than to pay out the nose for repair, probably eclipsing the gap between the savings buying a used gun vs buying a brand new one from someone else (this particular chain store does not sell the 617, only the 17-9). I know that this issue is not S&W's fault at all, so to really expect this to be covered under warranty would be crazy. Where I do take issue is the fact that S&W's sales rep got involved at all in this matter, as he is not a gunsmith, not an employee of the store or corporation, and spent majority of the time trying to dissuade me from making the return, and to leave the store without so much as putting the onus on the store to stand behind their product, have them get it fixed.

Furthermore, since I retained the gun in the interim, I dropped by another of my favorite LGSs and asked them what they saw in the barrel: 4 separate staff looked over the gun, all with varying years (some with decades) of experience in firearms training and smithing, and each confirmed my original analysis of a bulged barrel. One even went so far as to point out that in the right light, the bulge could be seen externally, and though very faint, you could almost feel it when running you fingers down the sides of the barrel.

Anyway, to say I am disappointed is an understatement. First thing Monday morning in will be calling S&W to discuss my options. Failing to get anywhere, or rather anywhere inexpensively, I may have to escalate my complaint to the corporate level with the store chain. They are not the brightest bunch, frequently losing paperwork, leading to angry letters from the state, or marking Smythons, Smolts, and Colt Troopers with Python barrels as Colt Pythons, and appending a $2000+ price tag.

On another note, my LGS buddies claims the gun is safe to shoot, but will suffer performance-wise. I am kinda curious how it does as is, not that I intend to leave it that way, but do you all agree with this analysis? Also, and more importantly, how could a 22LR round have enough enough energy behind it to bulge a barrel of this thickness? As I said above, I have seen other bulged barrels in center fire guns, but not quite as pronounced as this barrel's bulge. Maybe it just looks more pronounced to me because of the smaller bore diameter? Could there actually be a metallurgy defect in the gun leading to an exacerbation of the damage?

Finally, shame on the dishonest individual who sold this gun damaged, and dirty to hide the fact. You are the type of person that should not own firearms if you cannot own up to your mistakes and live with them.

Thanks for reading my rant, and if I can, I will try to take a couple pictures and post them later. 22 barrels I find to be very difficult to get good, clear bore shots.

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Last edited by mainegrw; 04-22-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:30 PM
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Buyer beware . . .
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:38 PM
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caveat emptor
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:42 PM
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You might be surprised that many people nowadays dump problem guns on the used market. I have become very leery of newer guns for sale that were previously owned. I don't think that there are many people left with what was considered character in the old days. That being said, with a used gun, you get what you get. Sometimes the seller will make good on problems, but don't expect them to go over every used gun with a fine tooth comb. More likely than not, your bulged barrel won't have any bad effect on accuracy. It just might be harder to clean that one spot. I have found that most folks nowadays don't really do any handgun shooting where they would notice an inaccurate gun from one that is super accurate. That is because they don't shoot handguns at any appreciable distance where one can discern the difference. "It's the dismal tide!"
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:43 PM
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Buyer beware . . .
Indeed, I just have not seen a bulged barrel on a 22 before, and in its dirty state, the bulge was not noticeable, and it never occurred to me to check for one. I am much more thorough when inspecting center fire guns however, and things like this usually stick out more. Further, I have dealt with damaged used guns before, as I primarily purchase used, and most retailers are willing to help with repairs, or will accept the gun back if that is desired for a certain period of time. This is the first time a retailer, and a major one at that, told me that I was on my own to fix a gun that I purchased 2 hours previous, and had not even shot.

Last edited by mainegrw; 04-22-2017 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:46 PM
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Get the name of the Smith and Wesson rep. who told you S&W will fix it on their dime. Use his name when dealing with them and send it in.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:47 PM
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I would have taken back and NOT accepted it for any reason....I always take a small flashlight and magnifying glass when I'm gun hunting....The time to find problems is before you purchase.......Case in point...Found a winchester mdl 24, 20 ga dbl in a pawn shop.....Had dirty bores.....Ask shop for a paper towel and cleaning rod.......Found one barrel was severely pitted about half way down.....NO WAY would I put a shell in it and shoot it......I like my fingers too much......Told them the gun was dangerous and should be destroyed....They probably put it back out for sale after I left...........
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:55 PM
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Photos attached...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2017-04-22 20.30.01.jpg (19.5 KB, 700 views)
File Type: jpg 2017-04-22 20.30.02.jpg (17.9 KB, 625 views)
File Type: jpg 2017-04-22 20.30.07.jpg (22.6 KB, 632 views)
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:01 PM
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Generally, when buying a used rim fire, your not going to be looking for a bulged barrel. That's just not something you see in rim fire guns so don't beat yourself up for missing it. Who knows? Smith might make it right for you. If they don't, I would shoot it as is. You might be surprised at how well it shoots.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:27 PM
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Wow, that really sucks. I think I would insist that the store take that one back. They sold you a gun with a bad barrel and it's not like 617's are extremely rare.
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:13 AM
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Great pics and definitely a bulged barrel. Frank
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:43 AM
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The budge might of occurred at the factory. It's possible it's a manufacturing defect.

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Old 04-23-2017, 06:04 AM
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People knowingly sell USED goods that are damaged??

Ain't that how ''BEN HUR'' bought his first chariot??
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:29 AM
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You might be surprised that many people nowadays dump problem guns on the used market . . .
You're kidding, right? I am shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:02 AM
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You're kidding, right? I am shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
Most of the people I know wouldn't stick someone else with their problem without at least pointing it out. I do see a lot of sleeze balls at gun shows, however. It is simply a matter of honesty and character. Some have it and some do not.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:14 AM
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Does that large retail outlet have a name?
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:21 AM
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Does that large retail outlet have a name?
Yes, but until I get it this resolved, I will not mention it... It is however not Bass Pro Shops, or Academy Sports...

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Old 04-23-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
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Most of the people I know wouldn't stick someone else with their problem without at least pointing it out. I do see a lot of sleeze balls at gun shows, however. It is simply a matter of honesty and character. Some have it and some do not.
I'm willing to be that that nobody you know traded that pistol in to the big box store. Were I of a deceptive tilt, trading a damaged gun to a big box store, where I'd be able to get a better pistol with little if any real inspection of my damaged pistol, would seem like a pretty good idea. When that traded in, damaged pistol is subsequently sold, the big box store would naturally ignore your complaints, as I'm sure there's a sign somewhere in all caps about all used gun sales being final.

I'd never buy a used gun from anyone except an acquaintance or my LGS . . .
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I'm willing to be that that nobody you know traded that pistol in to the big box store. Were I of a deceptive tilt, trading a damaged gun to a big box store, where I'd be able to get a better pistol with little if any real inspection of my damaged pistol, would seem like a pretty good idea. When that traded in, damaged pistol is subsequently sold, the big box store would naturally ignore your complaints, as I'm sure there's a sign somewhere in all caps about all used gun sales being final.

I'd never buy a used gun from anyone except an acquaintance or my LGS . . .
I've had very good dealings with folks on the few gun related websites that I frequent. There is a good possibility that the previous owner of the 617 never really knew that the barrel had a bulge. In a prior life, I worked in gun shops and there were many guns brought in for sale or trade, especially rimfires, that looked like they had never been cleaned.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:47 AM
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I've had very good dealings with folks on the few gun related websites that I frequent. There is a good possibility that the previous owner of the 617 never really knew that the barrel had a bulge. In a prior life, I worked in gun shops and there were many guns brought in for sale or trade, especially rimfires, that looked like they had never been cleaned.
Your scenario is equally probable . . .
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:59 AM
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Finally, shame on the dishonest individual who sold this gun damaged, and dirty to hide the fact. You are the type of person that should not own firearms if you cannot own up to your mistakes and live with them.
Up until that little paragraph, I see nothing in your post that alludes to the previous owner of the gun.

That owner may not be as experienced as you say you are, someone who "knows a bulge when he sees one." I don't see that you have any reason to accuse him of deliberately leaving the gun dirty to hide any damage, much less to accuse him of being dishonest and the "type of person that should not own firearms."

Just as an aside, I don't consider myself to be any sort of firearms expert. What I am, though, is someone who has a borelight with him when going to an LGS or big box store. I'll do as thorough an inspection of a gun as possible before I plunk down my hard earned money and leave the store with a purchase.

As someone else says...buyer beware.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:00 AM
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I will be interested to hear what S&W has to say. I agree it would be good to mention the S&W sales reps name when you talk to S&W.

I assume if you could find another 617 in your area, you won't be messing around with this and just return it. Right?
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:23 AM
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I know when you buy a new gun at Academy Sports they tell you up front they cannot take it back for any reason if it has a problem or other wise, you will have to send it back to the factory for warranty work. Something to do with the state or Federal gun laws because that doesn't apply to any other product they sell.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:59 AM
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Yes, some people do sell guns with damages and not identify them. I bought a 22/32 HFT that had a bulge just past the ejector rod latch. you couldn't see it but you could just feel it. When I pushed a tight patch down the barrel it was very evident. It is one I discussed with David Chicoine and he installed a sleeve in the barrel and it shoots as expected. I doubt if I'll ever recover the expense of having him sleeve it though.
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:46 AM
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Sorry for the OPs problem.

Lots of people buy used guns w/o issues, I don't go there. The only way I would buy a used gun would be if I knew the person selling it well.

My concern would be that someone would handload wildly overpressure rounds and overstress the gun, something, unless really obvious, couldn't be detected w/o magnafluxing or other scientific test.

Just my 2 cents worth. Don
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:48 AM
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In the state of Georgia, a merchant has to give a refund if the item is defective from the start. A gun store owner found that out in court. Dean
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:33 AM
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To the OP,

I can appreciate your position. If I were you, since you still have some type of warranty recourse from the merchant for your revolver, I would take it back to them. If need be, address the store manager. The fact that they purchased such a dirty used gun places them at fault, if not on a contributory basis, but I would not let it rest there. I would contact S&W to advise them not just of the damaged revolver, but the interference of the senior S&W rep and his generous claim that S&W would repair the damage on your new to you used revolver. I would emphasize that he discounted your assessment of damage which has been confirmed by a number of reputable shops/smiths. Include pictures of the bore, as you provided here.

It would be my suspicion that a previous owner had a couple of squib loads and kept firing without checking the bore. That is about the only logical explanation I can provide for the bulge.

Good luck!
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:02 PM
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So I took it to the range this morning, and I will rate its accuracy as decent considering the bulge. Below are two targets: the first was shot single action at 50 feet, from a standing position, no rest. The second was double action at 50 feet, again free standing, no rest. The single action break is nice and smooth in this gun, as I would expect from any of my S&Ws, the double action is good, but is a bit heavier than my 17-9. Someone had loosened the strain screw to try to lighten it at some point, however the gun was light striking set up that loose. The DA pull is just something I will need to adjust to, and practice with...

Some of you have pointed out that many stores sell guns as is and all sales final, and that I should have been more careful in my prepurchase inspection. I did thoroughly inspect the gun, the bore's fouling hid the bulge when I looked it over, and again, I have never seen a 22LR revolver with a bulged barrel before, so I wasn't particularly looking hard for one anyway. This dealer in particular offers a safety and function garentee for 10 days, during which they will fix or take the gun back. Most of the local dealers do this as well, and none have ever contested a return like this before, in the very few instances that I have asked to do so. I am very accustomed to buying used guns, I'd say 95% if the firearms I own were bought used, the only brand new gun that comes to mind that I have purchased recently was an M&P 15-22, and only because used examples are not available in my area. Nearly every rimfire gun I have bought came thoroughly filthy, but I usually find a decent gun underneath, the 17-9 I mentioned above, for example, came to me caked with so much lead that the forcing come appeared to have grown in diameter. The previous owner tried to hide the fouling by coloring it over with a Sharpie or bluing pen, and after about 2 hours of careful cleaning, the gun looked practically brand new. I am leary of certain brands, Taurus for example, that are popular with new and inexperinced shooters, as I have had other problem guns, one 22 revolver appearing to have had its chambers reamed with a drill bit, and again hidden beneath fouling, however at least in my area, the 617 is not considered an entry-level gun, and finds most of its following amongst competition shooters or at the very least, shooters of a higher experience level, rather than first time buyers.

That said, I counter the argument that a previous owner may not have known the barrel was bulged: If you have ever experienced this condition occurring, you'd know it right away. Even if you did not notice right away, you would certainly notice when your cleaning rod doesn't fit all the way through the barrel due to an obstruction. The gun was dirty when I bought it, but not to the point where I would suspect that the previous owner didn't bother to ever clean it. It had maybe 1000 rounds worth of fouling on it, and, as there were no bullets stuck in the barrel, somebody also had to go through the process of removing them. I would not expect to find a bulge like this if the pressure from the second round had pushed both bullets out of the gun, so the likelyhood of the barrel being obstructed is pretty good. Also, knowing the retailer, they are at least smart enough to check every incoming firearm for barrel or chamber obstructions, so I suspect that it was clear when they took it in, else they wouldn't have taken it.

Feel however you want about my situation, at this point, I probably will work with S&W on barrel replacement and just keep the gun. From now on I will insist on pushing a patch through the barrel of every gun, so I can feel for any problems not easily visible.

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Old 04-23-2017, 02:20 PM
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Buyer beware . . .
True. But when buying at a gun store, I am expecting some assistance in this. I am expecting them to have looked over it. To what degree, is a good question.




Is there a reason why we are scared to say the name of the store? I am curious who offers a guarantee that it will function for so many days.
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Old 04-23-2017, 02:22 PM
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, but until I get it this resolved, I will not mention it..atalk
I hate **** like this.
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:59 PM
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True. But when buying at a gun store, I am expecting some assistance in this. I am expecting them to have looked over it. To what degree, is a good question.
I agree with you, and because of it have had a similar experience. I was checking out a Colt Official Police .22 at a big box gun store. Was labeled as a totally functioning gun with nothing wrong with it. The man at the counter handled it first and said it was great. Hands it to me and that thing must have had a 25lb trigger pull. Pulling the hammer back was sometimes near impossible I felt like I was going to break it if I tried any harder.
I was surprised that a store like that would not even inspect or notice that obvious of a problem (especially for a .22). And when I asked about their return policy there were so many hoops to jump through it wasn't even worth it.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:52 PM
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Their job is to get your money, your job is to get your money's worth. There are four kinds of lies in the world: Big lies, little lies, statistics and EVERYTHING that a sales man (or lady) says.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:24 PM
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I don't read any mention of anyone measuring anything. So it is all just speculation. Oh yes a mention of you can almost feel something. Just what does that mean?
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:24 PM
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I bought a brand new model 69 about 3 weeks ago with the exact same "bulge" in it....it shoots better than most of my other handguns, i can supply pictures of targets and the barrel if you would like.....I too did not see it because it was dirty from the factory firing two test rounds in it. I personally feel it is more a tooling marking, a really bad one, than a bulge. If it were a bulge the lands would be dismembered and not just the groves.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mainegrw View Post
So I took it to the range this morning, and I will rate its accuracy as decent considering the bulge.
My S&W model 17 is very picky about ammo. It shoots much better groups with certain ammo than others. There is also some .22 ammo out there that I have found (unfortunately I bought a bunch) isn't accurate out of any of my .22 guns, including rifles.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:21 PM
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I don't read any mention of anyone measuring anything. So it is all just speculation. Oh yes a mention of you can almost feel something. Just what does that mean?
Regretfully, I don't own a set if pin gauges that would fit into a 22 barrel. I can see the bulge ring very clearly on the inside of the barrel, the almost feel something refers to the outside of the barrel. In the right light it is actually a visible bulge, and can be felt too. I was going to try to photograph it and post a pic, but can get a good shot. I will however grab my dial caliper out of my tool box tonight before I leave work and take a measurement of the exterior bulge to back up what I am saying.

Also, somebody mentioned that the lands don't seem to be affected, only the grooves, thus maybe a factory defect: The lands are deformed in this spot, it's more clear to the naked eye, and hard to see in my photos. It is definitely a bulge ring.

Anyway, spoke to S&W service this morning, they are taking the gun in for analysis, and looking into the claims made by their sales rep. Hopefully they can help me out, without costing too much...

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Old 04-24-2017, 07:56 PM
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@mainegrw,

I am not trying to Monday morning quarterback you ... personally, I hate that.

As a barometer or point of reference, when I shoot my Model 17 at 50' (one handed, unsupported, single action), I can expect my revolver to print 5 rounds in a bit over an inch. Sadly, I can't equate the performance of my K22 with your target, since I don't know the scoring ring diameter.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:36 PM
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@mainegrw,

I am not trying to Monday morning quarterback you ... personally, I hate that.

As a barometer or point of reference, when I shoot my Model 17 at 50' (one handed, unsupported, single action), I can expect my revolver to print 5 rounds in a bit over an inch. Sadly, I can't equate the performance of my K22 with your target, since I don't know the scoring ring diameter.
The overall target diameter is about 8", and I would estimate the diameter of the 6 ring to be around 4" in diameter. There are few things at play here, the first being the damage to the barrel, next my inexperience with this particular gun, i.e. I have not spent nearly the same amount of time shooting and dry firing with this gun as with most of my other guns, and finally, I have never made any claim about being a great marksman, granted that I still could produce at least 2" group at the same distance with other 22 revolvers if I tried hard. Truthfully, bullseye shooting isn't really my thing, steel plates however is, and my practice as of late, even on paper, emphasizes quicker target acquisition before high accuracy.

Also, I now have hard numbers to quantify the extent of the barrel bulge as exhibited externally: Measured with a digital caliper (rather than my dial caliper), I observed a fairly consistent width measurement of 0.714" from either end of the barrel to within 1" of either side of the highest spot of the bulge. At its peak, the bulge measures 0.730", a difference of 0.016 or just over 1/64". It may not sound like a lot to some of you, but it's enough for it to be felt. Again, I lack the necessary gauge set to get an internal measurement of the area, so I will let S&W do that part.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:54 PM
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If he's in Maine, it's probably Kittery Trading Post. I'm in TX, but me and a shooting buddy have bought several used guns from them online in the past. They used to have great prices on used handguns.

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Old 04-24-2017, 11:18 PM
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KTP is not a national chain, it's a large operation with one site in ME and one in NH. OTOH, there is a big national chain in Maine. That's Cabelas.

Just my guess.

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If he's in Maine, it's probably Kittery Trading Post. I'm in TX, but me and a shooting buddy have bought several used guns from them online in the past. They used to have great prices on used handguns.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:18 AM
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KTP is not a national chain, it's a large operation with one site in ME and one in NH. OTOH, there is a big national chain in Maine. That's Cabelas.

Just my guess.
I don't live in Maine, I live in CT...

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Old 04-25-2017, 08:54 AM
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I don't live in Maine, I live in CT...

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Well, its a mark against people who live there.

Not going to tell us where you bought it from?

Why not just wait to start this thread, until than?

I'd just like to know who offers warranty period on used guns.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:54 AM
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Why complain if they had a 10 day warranty either take back or get repaired by S&W instead making a deal about it the guy that checked it in at the undesclosed store you talked about may not be no more of a gun smith than you. You didn't see it at store. And you said you throughly looked it over. If a store gives you a 10 day return policy then that's pretty good you know. I would like to know which store may buy my next gun there as all stores I been to in my area that I have experienced buying guns do not have return policies. Most will not even gunsmith on one either I guess due to liability. Anyway there maybe great buys on good used guns but I myself don't know enough gunsmithing knowledge to purchase one without knowing who had it before. I did however almost buy a used Kimber 1911 once but I decided to pay couple extra hundred dollars and buy new one with warranty sometimes it pays more to buy new that has warranty. Than buy a used worn out gun that doesn't. And be in your situation. If your so worried about repair costs I'd just return and get a new one somewhere else.

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Old 04-25-2017, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
Wow, that really sucks. I think I would insist that the store take that one back. They sold you a gun with a bad barrel and it's not like 617's are extremely rare.
I agree with the above. Why should you have to go thru the angst of returning the gun to S&W and hope the don't charge you for the repair.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
Well, its a mark against people who live there.

Not going to tell us where you bought it from?

Why not just wait to start this thread, until than?

I'd just like to know who offers warranty period on used guns.
I can certainly understand why the OP doesn't want to state where he purchased the gun. There is a thing called slander and until he works this through in his own head and comes to a comfortable feeling about exactly what happened, he will reserve the name. I get it. I don't see the big deal in knowing anyway. It wont help him in this situation and it will only start another battle on this thread. IMOP
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:20 PM
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Why complain if they had a 10 day warranty either take back or get repaired by S&W instead making a deal about it the guy that checked it in at the undesclosed store you talked about may not be no more of a gun smith than you. You didn't see it at store. And you said you throughly looked it over. If a store gives you a 10 day return policy then that's pretty good you know. I would like to know which store may buy my next gun there as all stores I been to in my area that I have experienced buying guns do not have return policies. Most will not even gunsmith on one either I guess due to liability. Anyway there maybe great buys on good used guns but I myself don't know enough gunsmithing knowledge to purchase one without knowing who had it before. I did however almost buy a used Kimber 1911 once but I decided to pay couple extra hundred dollars and buy new one with warranty sometimes it pays more to buy new that has warranty. Than buy a used worn out gun that doesn't. And be in your situation. If your so worried about repair costs I'd just return and get a new one somewhere else.
Nearly every gun store I deal with offers at least a 10 day guarentee, on both new and used guns, and will usually take the gun back or fix it if it is damaged or not functioning properly. I have taken advantage of this before, for example, I had a Beretta 21A that exhibited function issues (not an ammo problem) shortly after purchase, so the store took it back. Another time, a shop serviced, at their option, a Beretta 70S I had purchased because I found it missing a snap ring and spacer that prevent the slide release lever from being able to fall out. The gun operated fine without it, I even tried to source one on my own, failing that, I asked for the shop help in sourcing one, and they offered to take the gun in and have their smith take care of it for me, free of charge. The same shop that I dealt with the 70S with are a real stand up group, even offering to buy back an older firearm from me that was found to have a magazine modified to accept more than the 10 round limit we have locally, and that was long after my initial purchase. These are the types of shops I usually deal with, though there are several others that don't offer any kind of return policy, and with those places I am either more thorough on my initial inspections, or whatever I am buying is a good enough deal that it's worth the risk.

The store I am dealing with now, and if you must know it's Cabela's, also offers this guarantee, for function and damage, though I have never had to take advantage of this until now. I buy, sell, or trade used firearms at a rate of maybe around 15-20 per year, many through Cabela's and have never had an issue before. Typically their guns are in good shape, and I have had no reason not to trust their judgment when it comes to safety and function until now. Don't get me wrong, I harbor no ill will against them, though as I stated in my original post, I have seen them do some bone-head things before, usually calling things Colt Pythons, that aren't, mislabeling calibers, etc., but my understanding has always been that someone in the company is at least responsible for safety and function checking each firearm before it is put out for sale, and that obviously doesn't catch everything, as in my case. All I wanted in this case was to have the right of refusal based on their 10 day policy, and this is where I take issue with what transpired. The S&W sales rep, who is not a qualified gunsmith, essentially told me and them that I didn't know what I was talking about, and not to accept the gun back. As they won't take it back on the opinion of the rep, I don't have that as an option anymore, and despite my insistence there was something wrong, they were very reluctant to even send it to their gunsmith for evaluation. That is why I am a little upset. I have been in contact with S&W about the situation, and it sounds like they are at least willing help me out if my analysis of the damage holds true.

Regardless of what happens, am I going to stop buying guns from Cabela's? No. Will I be more thorough on my pre-purchase inspections when I buy from them? Absolutely. Do I harbor any ill will toward S&W, and will stop buying their products? Of course not, S&W makes a quality product, and will never stop buying them.

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Old 04-25-2017, 01:37 PM
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I hope you get it sorted out and that stinks that the S&W sales rep done that to you. Good luck to you I hope smith does you right which I am sure they will.
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Old 04-25-2017, 02:36 PM
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From what you have said, the Sales Rep was letting his mouth overload his butt. Use that to your advantage if needed - such as if S&W balks about fixing it free. Hopefully you have his name.

As for the person who owned it before you, I agree with what others have said, which is he may not have been aware of the defect. I've shot with more than one person who literally could not hit the broad side of a barn if they were standing inside. How would someone like that know they gun wasn't shooting accurately? I've also seen guns that looked like the owner never cleaned them. Personally, I believe the chance of a squib causing the ring is quite low, given the caliber, and the ring was a manufacturing defect.

In any regard, keep us informed of what the factory says.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainegrw View Post
Nearly every gun store I deal with offers at least a 10 day guarentee, on both new and used guns, and will usually take the gun back or fix it if it is damaged or not functioning properly.
I have never seen a policy of any kind of guarantee on a used gun at a gun shop, and I've been around the block many times. I've lived in several different states and even worked in gun shops over the years. New guns generally are supported by the manufacturers, even though some, like Ruger give no written warranty. You are very fortunate.
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:38 PM
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Yeah, I don't see a .22 squib causing a groove that deep, and that perfect.

Moreover, I don't see how you get something that significant inside the bore, yet without there being a significant bulge on the outside of the barrel.

In my opinion, that defect was in the bore from Day 1.

OP has good reason to be disappointed.

But let's be real. This thing aint the Hope Diamond.
It shoots OK as-is.
I'd probably stop losing any sleep over it, and just accept the fact that the used thing I bought is worth $50 - $100 less than I thought it was worth.

Then go shooting.
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