Mine came in today.

Cylinder throats approx .4295. Measured with pin/plug gauges (minus verity) -- .429 go, .430 no go in all five throats.

Took it to the range for limited workout (time constrained).

Ended up putting the X Frame 500 Hogues on the gun. After that all was good. Holsters for my 396 fit the M69 2.75" perfectly.

All groups shot at 25 yds rested. The lead loads were just some ammo I had around for testing other guns -- I'm sure that a load could be (will be) developed for this particular gun.

The .44 special equivalent loads were easy shooting. The .44 mag equivalent (H110) loads were not at all unpleasant with the Hogue 500s.

I didn't chrono anything today, but for reference velocities form one of my 4 1/4" M69s at 5 long paces and 50 deg _+ were

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,224 fps
240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,230 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,220 fps
240gr Zero JSP with 8.5gr Univ avg 910 fps
250gr Keith (Lyman 429421) with 21.1gr H2400 avg 1,250 fps

I'm very happy with the two groups with H110 considering old eyes, iron sights and short sight radius.

This gun was very comfortable to shoot with the Hogue 500 X Frame grips -- not so much (for me) with factory grips.

Paul

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Don't know why the one picture is rotated incorrectly -- let's try again

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I'd like to find a nice set of guages. They seem to be pretty expensive.

I got an import set for general .001" work and then a few individual Meyer Gage pins for work with 44's, kind of a mini set in .0005" steps.
250 Piece, 0.251-0.5 Inch Diameter Plug and 86463023 - MSC
Individual Gage Pins available in all Classes - Class Z Individual Gage Pins, Class ZZ Individual Gage Pins, Class X Individual Gage Pins, Class XX Individual Gage Pins | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.
Considering they should last a couple of lifetimes given proper care, they are pretty cheap especially if you just get the ones you need.
Make sure you get good case for them from the maker even if you only get a few pins.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

When I got mine, three years ago now, the discount stores on-line were very reasonable (<$100 & free shipping). Now I see that business was bought out by someone else & the prices have doubled.

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Waiting for the break of day

Amazon sells American made Vermont Gauge pin gauges in -.0002 size for between $2 and $4 each. I just get the 3-4 sizes I need for each caliber to measure throats. For example .4295 is $2.78. Just plug in the sizes you need in the drop down.
Vermont Gage Steel No-Go Plug Gage, Tolerance Class ZZ, 0.004" Gage Diameter: Hardware Pin Gauges: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Stu

Quick update:

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69 today. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F.

260 WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps
240 Zero JSP with 23.5gr H110 avg 1,126 fps
240gr Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat) 1,119 fps avg
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps

Because some of the numbers were so close, I checked and rechecked -- it is what it is. Increased round count would probably change the results a bit.

Still amazed at how well this little gun handles recoil with the Hogue 500 X Frame grips.

Paul

Thanks Paul. Great info. As I've said before, I'm really liking this 69. It's an awesome package.

Thanks for the data!
The 260 WFNGC is one of my favorite 44 mag bullets of all time.
I run it with 18-19 grains 2400.
Also in the .445 with 31 grains IMR-4227.
I have just one small caution for you.
I would hesitate to run the Zero .431" 240 JSPFN thru your gun with .4295" throats.
They are obviously working but may be causing either higher pressure than you think or excessive wear on those throats (or both).
I reserve that bullet for the many 44's than have throats larger than .430".
Can't wait to get my hands on one of those model 69 revolvers.

I must be getting to be a dirty old man because the model number makes me think about getting the gun
engraved along the lines of one Ted Nugent had made for him awhile back featuring ... well you get the picture.
Urban legend has it he was friends with Roy Jinks' daughter at the time. (Izzat true Roy?)

I have just chronographed the Zero 240 JSP bullet in the 444 with the following results for those interested in the high end of things:

Virgin Starline brass, WLR primer, IMR-4227 powder:
31 grains - 1958 fps - 22" 444S
35 grains - 2164 fps - 22" 444S

Virgin Starline brass, WLR primer, IMR-4198 powder:
44 grains - 2313 fps - 22" 444S
45 grains - 2375 fps - 22" 444S

44 grains - 2378 fps - 24" Rizzini BR550E
45 grains - 2432 fps - 24" Rizzini BR550E

This is kind of an academic exercise as I suspect the Zero is going to blow up hitting anything at Mach 2.
I would use the Swift A-Frame if a 240 was to be used seriously.
For big game I am working up a load for the Woodleigh 280 weldcore which would be my main jacketed bullet in the 444 other than the Hornady 265FP.
The Woodleigh is designed for an impact velocity of 1800-2200 fps.
Many 444 big game loads are heavy cast gas check bullets.
The 444 Master Reloading Table is curated by yours truly.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I picked up the 69 snubby yesterday and have been carrying it in my galco leather 686 holster. I mowed the yard today while carrying it and had to stop at my steel target and dump the cylinder. I was just carrying American Eagle 240 HP. I Hit my steel 4 out of 5 times at just 7 yards, which is on par with the rest of the snubbys I shoot, I like the dents it puts into the steel.

I also have the 4.25 version of the 69 that I've shot some of my Hot hand loads in and I'd say the American Eagle 240 HP felt just as hot in this 2.75". I don't think I'll be up loading to this like I do for the 8 3/8 and the 4.25. Great to feel power of a 44 mag though. I will have to work down some load for this 2.75 barrel using 44 mag casing.

Received the pin gauges today. Results were .4295 go, .430 no go!

Cool. Nice to know.
That seems to be typical of the S&W 44's since about Y2K.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

What is a PINK GAUGE, Shark Bait? Do you perhaps mean PIN gauge? Check your thread title.

Yup, just saw that. I hate auto-correct. Fixed now. Thanks.

My 629-3 and 629-4 both are smaller than .4295, and my pre-29 and 24-3 are larger than .431.

My M396NG has .4285" throat. My 629-5 & M329NG have .4290" throats. All made since 2000.

I ordered a M69 2-3/4" from Grab-A-Gun yesterday. Waiting for them to ship it now.

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Waiting for the break of day

Got mine! Really like it so far.

I was surprised when I measured the SA pull at 6#s out of the box. Didn't feel bad. Polished things up & put a Wolff 14# rebound spring in (cut 1/2 a coil off) & now it's 3#.

I took the factory "imitation Hogue grips" off right away (they are always uncomfortable to shot) & put the Badgers on for show but I got some Pachmayr Diamond Pros for range day to use on it.

The forcing cones on these 2 piece barrel guns have always been smoother & have a better transition to the rifling than the one piece barrels. This one looks good too.

The throats measure right at .429" with my pin gages. B-C is a tight .005". Weight 34.1 oz.

I cleaned up the muzzle burrs, left from the installation tool, with my 45 degree chamfer tool.

More after I get to the range later this week.

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Waiting for the break of day

200 rounds through mine now and it still has that giggle factor. Put in a 11lb. rebound spring and the trigger wouldn't return. Did a little polishing and it still wouldn't return the trigger. Was out of 12lb so a 13lb went in. Worked just fine and I'll leave it as is.
Definitely will put a F.O. front sight on it. Love it on my 627.
Have put a Hogue grip on it and will have to post a pic. Really liking this little boomer!

Little over 400 rnd thru mine. Original trigger pull just under 5 1/2 lbs. Currently right at 4 ¾ lbs – doesn’t feel that heavy and works fine for me. I replaced the factory grips with the S&W 500 X Frame Hogues. A set of Pachmayr Diamon Pros are supposed to arrive today – will give them a try to see if they work as good as the X Frame Hogues.

Here’s a group I shot at 50 yards rested over my range bag 2 days ago.



Not a fluke – similar groups at both 25 & 50 yds previously.

My gun shoots extremely well with loads it likes but is pretty picky, so if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.

Second the “giggle factor” – really like this little gun.



Paul

I guess I see things a bit differently as I feel that measuring the cylinder throats is only 1/2 of the process . If the throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel you will get significant leading of the barrel . I feel that getting the " groove " diameter of the barrel is just as important . The Smith rifling is a bit harder to measure but you can get a number that is real close using a micrometer . I would rather have throats that are a bit oversize than under size compared to the groove diameter of the barrel .

All true... but, you can make tight throats (exit bores) bigger. You can't make big ones smaller.

Nice shooting, Paul105!

I do not intend to go back to lead bullets in any of my guns again. I'm personally past that after decades of shooting them. Plated & jacketed work fine for me now.

I did however check many more clearances/dimensions than I posted above:

- bore: .4168"
- groove: .4296"

The rest of them will be posted in a thread after I get some range time. ( I'll be leaving the 25yd & > targets for Paul. )

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Waiting for the break of day

Some random thoughts/additional info:

Tried the Pachmayr Diamond Pros. They don’t work for me – too narrow at the top and allow trigger guard to impact middle finger. They are real thick in the middle and the rubber material is very tacky. Don’t let my experience dissuade you. Everyone’s different, so they may work for someone else. I will stick with the Hogue X Frame 500s.

Wish Hogue would make a “reduced profile” version of the X Frame 500s. I’ve thought about reshaping them with a belt sander, but I typically make things worse, so I’ve been reluctant to do so. Be nice if the finger groves were eliminated (although they fit my hand perfectly), and the butt was recontoured/rounded.

Seems to be mixed feelings among very knowledgeable handgunners/reloaders about using the Zero .431 Jacket Flat Points in guns with smaller throats. Some say no problem, some say S&W revolvers are a bit “delicate” and it might be wiser to use smaller diameter bullets. With that in mind, I ran the .431 zeros thru a lee .429 push thru, cast bullet sizer die. Not much resistance and the bullets come out exactly .430 on my Mitutoyo digital micrometer. You can do a bunch of these in short order if this is the direction you want to take. Note that Hornady’s XTPs are .430 so the resized Zero’s should be good to go for anyone with concerns.

Tried these .430 Zeros over 9.0gr of Hodgdon Universal. Max load on Hodgdon’s online data is 10.2gr with 240gr Nosler Jacketed, so the usual cautions are in order. Shot very well in the 2 ¾” M69 at 25 yds rested over my range bag. The one (xed out) on the lower right was my bad. Didn’t chrono or compare to .431s. Just a guess, but these are probably running around 950 fps +- in the 2 ¾” bbl. The HP38 loads in the second photo are definitely slower and are very comfortable to shoot.



Here are some lighter loads that didn’t shoot quite as well but should be serviceable and would probably tighten up with some tweaking.

These were deep seated to .44 special OALs in .44 Magnum cases. Bayou’s at 1.515” OAL. Berry’s also at 1.515”.




Paul

My 44 Caliber Range loads:

Starline 44 magnum case:
240gr LSWC over 5.0gr Bullseye
240gr LSWC over 7.0gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 7.5gr BE86

Starline 44 Special Case:
240gr LSWC over 4.0gr Trail Boss
240gr LSWC over 5.5gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 4.3gr 700X

I use a lot of S&B primers reloading 44 Caliber but usually it's whichever I found a good buy on.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I loaded up some Nosler 240gr JHPs, with Unique, to run thru the M69 (hopefully THIS week ) & started loading them in my very old Remington 44 Mag cases when I noticed they had very little resistance (bullet-case tension) being seated. Short story, the Noslers are right at .4290" & the thin case walls of the Remingtons weren't a good match. Ended up using those Remington cases with some Xtreme 240gr P-RNFPs (.4296") bullets instead. Used the Noslers in some Starline cases (thicker case walls) instead. I had forgotten the Noslers were that size.

Why did you deep seat those bullets to that (1.515") OAL"? (My 44 Specials loaded with Berry's 240gr were 1.435" OAL.)

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Waiting for the break of day

When using commercial 240gr SWC BB bullets in .44 Mag cases, I seat/lightly crimp the bullet just above the front drive band. Didn't change the seating depth for the Berry's, so they just happened to come out the same OAL.

Paul

Now if they would only make them in .41 Magnum.......

Nothing says you have to shoot full-powered loads.
.44 Special-type loads are still powerful and more pleasant to shoot.

Yep.
8 grains Unique/Universal and the 240 grain bullet of your choice (I choose cast) covers pretty much all the bases except maybe engine blocks and Kodiak bears.
7 grains is even nicer to shoot and almost as powerful, just not going to get you trans or supersonic.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

Finally made it to the range with the M69. It shot great with everything to tried. (All in 44 Magnum cases & CCI 300 primers.)

Loaded (100) Nosler 240gr JHPs with some work-up/get-to-know-you loads, 8.6 -> 10.3grs/Unique. I only loaded (10) of the max load (Speer #14) but they grouped the best (below, 2" bullseye).

Also (100) Xtreme 240gr P-RNFPs loads with 9.0 -> 10.5grs/Power Pistol. Only shot about half of these. Acceptable grouping but not as good as the JHPs of course. Love the extra flash you get with P-P in the short barrel.

Forgot my 2400 loads so I'll try them next trip.

Oh, the Pachmayr Diamond Pros worked great for me. Their soft flat backstrap surface felt good. Recoil was no problem with these loads. (I don't shoot heavier than 240gr normally.)

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Waiting for the break of day

Over 400 now and this is just one fun shooting revolver. I think S&W hit this one out of the park. Keep thinking about having it cut for moon clips.