watched a video on YouTube and the gentleman replaced the stock hammer on his model 66 with an aftermarket hammer with no spur to make it a DA Only. what are peoples thoughts on this for an everyday day carry revolver? leave it single/double action or modify it to double action only? pros/cons?

disclaimer: im not saying i want to do this, just curious what peoples thoughts are and if there are pros and cons that i havent seen or thought of. so take it easy on me. haha

I would think that 99.9% of any defensive shootings with a revolver would involve DA shooting only. I don't see any drawbacks to a DAO setup. I think the main advantage to a spurless revolver is making it more snag-proof.

However, it's not like a hammer gets cocked by mistake. Simply don't cock it, and your revolver is DAO by default.

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Because of the metric system?

IIRC in the late 70s early 80s; after several shooting where the officers were "accused" of cocking his/his revolver while holding a suspect at gun point; and then shooting the "suspect" by "accident"; and making large payouts in civil suits/settlements.............................

a large number of Police Departments converted or switched to DAO revolvers.....including, again IIRC, New York City.

I'm with PeteP....... 99.99% of any "justifiable" self defense shooting you might ever have to do will be fast and dirty DAO........ the .01% might be a hostage situation...... which I would not want to face SA or DA.

What Pete said.... my EDC revolver does not have a hammer exposed. I have cut many off, but really no need to.

The DAO is somewhat easier to conceal or fit in a pocket due to the hidden hammer. I imagine in most cases in a bad situation a person is going to fire DA anyway.
The advantage to SA/DA is for more precise aiming for longer shots.
I have carried the LCR 357 for the past several years but just recently switched to an Charter Bulldog 44 spl that is DA/SA and I do really like it and the exposed hammer carrying OWB hasn't been a problem carrying.
The Bulldog only weighs 3 OZ more than the LCR and recoil actually is a heck of a lot less than shooting 357 in the LCR.

Agree, and they also favored DAO pistols when available. Our force (in the mid-90's) went to Beretta 92F in DAO.

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Loving retirement!

The only reason I'd make a revolver DAO is to remove the hammer spur for pocket carry. I did it to my 360J. Other than pocket carry, I like having the capability for single action for plinking or shooting at game/pests.

I agree with everybody's comments here. The only benefit I saw with DAO only was maybe less chance of snagging when concealed. But I was just curious if there was any other benefits that I wasn't aware of

For a revolver (such as my 640 and 642's), the advantage, as many have already said, is for concealed carry (such as pocket, etc).

For an auto, such as my S&W third gens, the advantage is in having the same trigger pull, each and every time.

For this reason, I got rid of all of my DA/SA autos in 1991 (when I got my S&W 3953) and went to only autos that have the same trigger pull for all shots.

I think if you want a dedicated, all I am going to do with this is carry and practice with it revolver, it makes sense to make it DAO - one less thing to think about if you need to use it. Otherwise, keeping the SA option makes sense. A good compromise is the Bodyguard shrouded hammer style if you can't decide .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

My EDC is a .38 Centennial, but if I were to carry an auto, I'd prefer a SA/DA. Whenever I carried my 1911 or my M1934 Beretta, I carried in Condition One.

Larry

What's this single action stuff...????

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.............SmithNut

are you asking what SA is? or what revolvers are available in SA only?

I like DAO but carry both.

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Two Handguns every day

FWIW, I rarely shoot SA even at the range. I'll take guns for fun shooting,but I mostly practice with the guns that I'm currently carrying. Since that is mostly wheelguns these days, I want to be proficient shooting DA.

should of put a smiley face I guess... Yes I know what SA is, and it has no place on a carry revolver IMO...

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.............SmithNut

Hmmm

I think John Wayne, et al would disagree.

Don't want the hammer getting caught on anything. Same reason little or no front site.


I have 638, really small hammer, you can cock it. Wish I would have bought one totally enclosed to keep dirt out. I never cock it, I think it has decent pull.


I took side cover off last week, it was clean inside that I could tell. But hammer had lots of lint. Embarassing amount. Looked like some hack carried it. Jacket pockets, and bags. I do use a pocket holster though.

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Beware the man with one gun.

The 36 is bobbed but with enough hammer left to cock it if I want to. The 38 is made with a little nub showing for the same reason. The completely shrouded hammer is best for SD, but I like to cock a gun every now and again.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

For me, my big hammer revolvers are for fun at the range. Hammerless small j's for my pocket.

I guess you have a point, but since there are no Schofields in this section I'll just have to stand with my point albeit modified a bit as below...

For clarity, single action has no place on a S&W Double action revolver used in a Carry role .... Again, IMO

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.............SmithNut

Just my personal opinion, FWIW, but for a carry gun I have a strong preference for DAO, especially with revolvers.

Self defense shootings are typically fast, close range affairs. SA has absolutely no advantange over DA, and some pretty big disadvantages (additional time needed to cock the hammer, extra manipulation to cock the hammer, very light and short trigger pull while under stress).

Legally, can a prosecutor/plaintiff claim you cocked the hammer? Did that lead to an unintentional discharge? Or did it mean you had malice aforethought? On the other hand, I could have a DAO gun and that claim isn't even possible, as rare as it would be.

Bobbing the hammer is another issue. If you're going to bob the hammer to give it a lower profile that's less likely to snag, I'd recommend converting it internally to DAO. Some people say they leave enough spur to cock the gun, but the problem then becomes one of de-cocking the gun, especially if you might be a little shaky after defending yourself if you didn't need to fire. I know I'm probably the only one here who wants a DAO Bodyguard (there are other reasons for having an exposed hammer spur/nub than cocking the gun).

With semi-autos (I only mention them because a few others have), I prefer DAO, but am ok with DA/SA (my HD gun is a Beretta 92FS). The main difference is in the SA trigger. SA triggers on revolvers are very light and very short, which is not a good thing to have in your hands if you're under the stress of someone trying to kill you. The SA trigger on DA/SA guns are, for the most part, in the 4-6lb range, which is generally considered acceptable for self defense.

Again, just my opinion.

my bad. completely overlooked the sarcasm.

No worries at all...


Agree with you 100% here.

A competent revolver driver should be capable and accurate shooting DA, whether for self defense/carry, but on other occasions too, IMO.

I think anyone who handles a revolver and could find themselves in a defensive scenario should shoot DA only.

Interesting, and troubling story/observation from the past...

About 15-18 years ago, the local range I used to hang out in invited a qualified Utah instructor to come up and run a class about how to get your Utah carry license. It was interesting, and helped a lot of folks get their Utah permit, which gave them expanded reciprocity for travel purposes.

Part of the class (at the end) had the instructor get folks up, one at a time, to demonstrate safe handling of a semi-auto and a revolver, manipulating for loading purposes, and then bringing the weapon up to shooting position.... I have to tell you it was informative, and a bit scary to me.

There were about 40 people in the class, and my guess was that about 70-75% (probably more) were auto carriers, mostly 1911 and Glock folks, with some Sig carriers thrown in. The troubling part was this, when each and every one of the auto guys/gals picked up the revolver used in the training, they all put the gun up to eye level and reached for the hammer and yanked it back. Yes, 100% of these folks thought that was the only way to shoot a revolver.

Now, you say, they were auto carriers and that was just the way it is, but I have to tell you that it's troubling in many ways, for instance, if you should find yourself having to use your injured buddies revolver in a stressful situation after your autojammer ran out of ammo, the first thing you are going to do is yank that hammer back and guess what - it's only gonna take but a few stress induced ounces to make a lot of noise, maybe at the wrong time.....

Anyway, everyone should practice shooting their DA revolver DA, it's not only challenging but fun too. Leave the SA shooting for hunting and long range competition/target shooting only. Better yet. use the hammer (if you have one) to do a function check only, making sure all rotates good and smooth.

One of the reasons I like DAO autos as well, no worries about what is going to happen, no light trigger pull to "go", simple operation, no safeties to worry about or snag on clothing. DA/SA is OK, but for real world work, a DAO auto is just right.

Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.......

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.............SmithNut

Never deliberately give away an option you may need someday.

anybody ever try the "spurless" hammer from Apex Tactical? they claim they are a drop-in aftermarket hammer to convert to DAO that is made to manufacture specs. just wondering if the quality is there?

I honestly can't remember the last time I fired a DA revolver in SA mode. Years ago I did so when testing ammunition but these days I even do that DA.

As a long time defensive handgun instructor (both LE and civilian) training/practicing with the same trigger pull for everything is the best way to insure you will react correctly in a defensive situation.

Cutting off a hammer spur isn't necessary unless the revolver is going to be carried concealed. Then it makes a lot of sense.

YMMV,
Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

DAO 100% for a carry gun, and I'd prefer a shrouded hammer- i.e. centennial if possible. I see no need for a single action as it's quite unlikely to be used in SD. It can cause problems on the draw and hang up if fired from a pocket.

KISS- w/ DAO

I hardly ever use my revolvers in SA mode. I wouldn't go replacing parts just to make it DAO

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

For carry, and HD I've gone 100: DAO.

Carry rotation:

and

As for HD:

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I agree!

I purchased my 3953 in 1991 and followed that up in 1996 (or so) with a 642, and these have been my carry handguns since (ok, there was a short period that I carried a Glock 30).

I do not, and did not care for the transition from DA to SA in DA/SA autos, and as such I sold all of the ones I had.

If you are able to make that transition, and make ALL of your shots accurately, then more power to you (and I can tell you, from watching others, many can NOT).

What I found (at least for me) was that I needed to change my hold of the auto, when the trigger pull changed from DA to SA, and (at least for me) that resulted in decreased accuracy (again, at least for me), and as such I will not carry a DA/SA auto because of that.

I grew up shooting a 1949 cap and ball pocket revolver, SAO. I can shoot both, but if I can have the option I would rather have it than not. I still carry on occasion single action revolvers, especially woods carry.

With the gun pics you show, wouldn't that be DAO??

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.............SmithNut

My bad
Brain fade.
Posted before my morning coffee.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I agree with the consensus. DAO by all means. Less danger of snagging
on the draw. No wasted time cocking. Probably no safety to switch off.
A couple of things to keep in mind:
1. If you cock the hammer on your concealed carry gun, and you are
holding someone at gunpoint until the cavalry arrives, it takes much
less to accidentally shoot than it would with a DAO. And you may
very well be a little shaky anyway.
2. I have had guns with hammer spurs removed and sear notch removed
to render them DAO. Then when you go to sell, you are probably
marked down for it.

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In Omnia Paratus

If we stick to revolvers in this discussion, I don't personally have a preference for DAO versus a standard double action revolver capable of being fired single action - let's call that a TDR - typical double action revolver. I have both and I carry both. Neither really has an advantage over the other because you should never, not ever, NEVER cock the hammer of a TDR in a defensive situation. You might even be better off never practicing with a cocked revolver at the range so you don't get used to it. The infamous Miami riots of several decades back occurred after an LEO cocked his revolver whilst holding a suspect at bay and then he touched the now very light trigger, BANG, dead suspect, people went nuts.

If you're going to shoot, shoot, don't cock. If you're not going to shoot DEFINITELY don't cock that hammer.

As a side bar, this explains why I don't approve of single action pistols for concealed carry. Long story for a different thread.

The hammer is never cocked on a SA revolver until it is going to be fired. SA revolvers have no double action. So the same rules apply to SA/DA revolvers. Most important the finger should never be on the trigger unless the decision has been made to shoot. Plus for most of us the gun should never leave the holster in public unless the decision has been made to shoot. You don't have to shoot if the situation deescalates, but you damn better be justified when pulling it in most states.

Basically past the legalities it is personal choice how one carries, and deploys, and none of my business. I also tend to do things my way, as to listen to others who do not wear my shoes.

still wondering if anybody has tried an aftermarket "spurless hammer" as opposed to grinding the stock hammer down?