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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 05-29-2017, 11:39 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Default 500 S&W Magnum leaves a mark - S&W's response

My son and I went plinking on Saturday. A 8-3/8" 500 was on the list to sight in after replacing the Aimpoint H2 mount with an ADM QD mount. I had a couple of boxes of Federal Fusion 325 GR soft point rounds to play with...

We were having lots of fun until I heard an "Ouch!" from my son.

He was standing about 5' away from me, at about my 7:00 - 8:00, when he felt a sting in his right bicep.

Whatever it was that hit him did it hard enough that it drew blood. Rather than a penetrating event, it appears that he got grazed, and the resulting nick bled plenty.

We also experienced some blowing sand sensation on occasion, but not regularly, or in sequence with a particular chamber.

Looking at the frame of the pistol, the cylinder face and the barrel entry - none of these areas show any evidence of material spraying after 20 rounds.

Could the ouch and sand blast be from the powder? Should I be looking for issues with timing, alignment, gaps?

Update...

S&W customer service contacted me via email on Friday. They won't be sending the pistol I sent them back to *me*. Instead, I'll be picking up a pistol from a FFL, and they needed to know who to send it to. Whatever was wrong, the fix involved replacing the frame, and the pistol will have to be transferred to me via my FFL.

Last edited by Flipside; 06-24-2017 at 03:32 PM. Reason: updates
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:25 AM
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After cleaning the revolver, check the Barrel / Cylinder Gap on ALL 5 Chambers - check from both left side and right side. See if there is any substantial variation - use an accurate feeler gauge. If so, call S&W and they will set you up for the return and repair.

I consider the B/C Gap excessive if more than .007". Unfortunately Smith NOW sees it at .012"

Last edited by chief38; 05-30-2017 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:36 AM
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Default That's a little scary........

Jacketed bullets blowing stuff out of the cylinder gap??? I'd definitely check that gap and barrel alignment.

No other ammo does this? I can see powders with some incompletely burned kernals, cinders or whatever giving that 'sand' feeling, but what came out that was solid enough to cause a bleeding wound in your bicep??? It must have been part of the jacket but that shouldn't be happening at all. Nothing on the bullet should shave or break off and come out through the cylinder gap.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:18 AM
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You did not mention how you are shooting, off a bench,off ground?

The pressure out the BC gap is sufficient to remove the paint and wood from the partitions at my local range and bench booth. I have had paint chips and wood particles hit me in the past and embed in the skin. I use a piece of carpet when shooting of the ground and bench (with bipod) to prevent this from happening.

I have had my shooting bags (which are leather) cut by the gas out of BC out of both 500 and 460 S&W revolvers.

Be safe
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:31 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Ruggy,

Great points!

I'm 6'-4", shooting outside, Weaver stance, tail wind that was light, not enough to kick up any dust or debris.

Pic of nick attached...
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:54 AM
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What were you shooting at and how far away is it? Could it have been a ricochet?
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:58 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Ricochet?

Maybe...

Backstop was a sand berm, 75 feet away.
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:15 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Jacketed bullets blowing stuff out of the cylinder gap??? I'd definitely check that gap and barrel alignment.

No other ammo does this? I can see powders with some incompletely burned kernals, cinders or whatever giving that 'sand' feeling, but what came out that was solid enough to cause a bleeding wound in your bicep??? It must have been part of the jacket but that shouldn't be happening at all. Nothing on the bullet should shave or break off and come out through the cylinder gap.
Measured the gap at 0.006" at the top strap, tapering to about 0.0035 towards the ejector. A 0.004" wouldn't pass, but a 0.003 would. This was true on all chambers, except one where the top was 0.005"

The measurements suggest a slight taper, but is 0.0015" over 0.500" something to sweat?

I'm beginning to think a ricochet is the most likely suspect. Even though the sand had no stone in it - evidenced by what the bullets were digging up - maybe a bullet buried in the sand sent something back? Dunno... just goes to show you PPE like glasses are important even if you're not on the line pulling the trigger.

The Fusion was the only ammo I've shot so far. I also have some Buffalo Bore 440GR Lead Cast, but haven't launched any of that yet.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipside View Post
Measured the gap at 0.006" at the top strap, tapering to about 0.0035 towards the ejector. A 0.004" wouldn't pass, but a 0.003 would. This was true on all chambers, except one where the top was 0.005"

The measurements suggest a slight taper, but is 0.0015" over 0.500" something to sweat?

I'm beginning to think a ricochet is the most likely suspect. Even though the sand had no stone in it - evidenced by what the bullets were digging up - maybe a bullet buried in the sand sent something back? Dunno... just goes to show you PPE like glasses are important even if you're not on the line pulling the trigger.

The Fusion was the only ammo I've shot so far. I also have some Buffalo Bore 440GR Lead Cast, but haven't launched any of that yet.

Your B/C Gap variation is a bit off (maybe due to Forcing Cone or Cylinder Rotation) but may actually be less than many made these days. While we would all like the B/C Gap to be consistent and within the perfect spec's, that is a real rarity these days. The B/C Gap itself is within Spec (the old spec too ) and so that in itself should not be causing your problem.

I'd try some other ammunition before contacting The Company. If it happens with other name brand ammo as well, then set up a return. Also check to make sure (with an EMPTY CYLINDER) that when the trigger is in the most rearward position (fire mode) the cylinder does not move side to side excessively.

Last edited by chief38; 05-31-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:55 PM
Road_Clam Road_Clam is offline
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ricochet is the only real logical conclusion I can put fourth. By X frame design there is really no way a piece of debris can fly backwards and strike your bicept. Although a ricochet at 75 ft is a stretch. I've gotten shrapnel pelted at 25 ft a few times. Was there other shooters near you ? Possibly a ricochet from an adjacent shooter ? I have the 12" 460XVR and never had an issue. I also shoot with a scope so my face needs to be close to the frame (closer that I feel comfortable with) and I always wear wrap around protective eyewear.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Clam View Post
ricochet is the only real logical conclusion I can put fourth. By X frame design there is really no way a piece of debris can fly backwards and strike your bicept. Although a ricochet at 75 ft is a stretch. I've gotten shrapnel pelted at 25 ft a few times. Was there other shooters near you ? Possibly a ricochet from an adjacent shooter ? I have the 12" 460XVR and never had an issue. I also shoot with a scope so my face needs to be close to the frame (closer that I feel comfortable with) and I always wear wrap around protective eyewear.
It was my son's bicep that got hit; he was 5' away from me @ my 8:00. We were the only people there.

I too think ricochet is a strong contender. However, we were both getting sandblasted, so I'm also suspicious something else may be going on. While the gap is one thing (not square / parallel), timing is something else.

After talking to their CS, I sent it in to S&W. A month from now, there may be some answers from them...
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:29 AM
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What ammo were you shooting? Any signs of bullet jacket hitting the forcing cone?

I was shooting some new 350gr XTPs from North Georgia Reloading and there was quite a bit of unburned powder, which I attribute to the sand blast feeling on my cheeks and forearms. I experienced none of this with my reloads.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:09 AM
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Federal Fusions... Jacketeted soft points, 325 gr
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:22 AM
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Having seen what the pressure expelled from the BC gap of a 500 does, I get nowhere near one being fired. If you ever let anyone else shoot it and they may be semi auto shooters that hold the gun with left hand supporting under and in front of the grip, don't let them fire it. If any part of their hand gets in line with the BC Gap it can be severely damaged.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:53 PM
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Call S&W techs and ask them? Guns aren't suppose to shoot sideways.
Steve
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:44 AM
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The blast from the cylinder gap on my .460 will eat thru leather sandbags. Unburned powder granules bouncing off the shooting platform sting when they hit you. If the gun is timed correctly, and is shooting accurately, it's probably just unburned powder from the cylinder gap. A ricochet from a 325 gr projectile would leave a much bigger mark. Just saying.
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:52 AM
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The blast from the cylinder gap on my .460 will eat thru leather sandbags. Unburned powder granules bouncing off the shooting platform sting when they hit you. If the gun is timed correctly, and is shooting accurately, it's probably just unburned powder from the cylinder gap. A ricochet from a 325 gr projectile would leave a much bigger mark. Just saying.
I disagree with you theory, IMHO, it's ash from the burning powder?
Steve
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:20 PM
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:45 PM
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S&W didn't share any details other than the repair included replacing the frame.

I'll be picking up my "new" pistol next week.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Clam View Post
ricochet is the only real logical conclusion I can put fourth. By X frame design there is really no way a piece of debris can fly backwards and strike your bicept. Although a ricochet at 75 ft is a stretch.
A 75 ft/25 yds ricochet is not a stretch. Based on personal experience, an unknown piece of steel was on the berm, I was approximately 3 yds laterally to the shooters 7-8 o'clock, the angle was prob 28-30 degrees, a 22 lr fired out of the rifle hit me on the lest side of the head, just above my shooting glasses. Few drops of blood, I figure the bullet/fragment was traveling at 250 fps or less, since I could see it coming and instinctively turned my head, if the speed was faster I doubt that I could have seen it. This occurred March 2017 and was the first and only time I had been hit by a ricochet in 60years of life. So depending on your backstop - Mine is 4 truck tires high, with wood inside the tires, back up by 2 large bales, approximately 12 ft deep, plus a large bale on top of first bale. It will stop everything 22 lr to 50 bmg. Actually one large bale along with the tires in the front stopped everything, but have the ability to rotate positions allows it to last 2 years =/- depending on use. We found a pock marked steel target that was put into the berm that we were not aware was there since we did not put it there. Freak things do happen. Be Safe,
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:48 PM
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Annoying that they're shipping a replacement to an FFL instead of directly to you.
Denis
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
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S&W didn't share any details other than the repair included replacing the frame.

I'll be picking up my "new" pistol next week.
They(S&W) will reimburse you if a transfer fee or any other fee is charged, just get a receipt and forward a copy to S&W.
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:03 PM
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The new pistol would be real annoying if it were here in NY. Changing it on your permit, and a receipt showing you do not have the old one anymore
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
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The new pistol would be real annoying if it were here in NY. Changing it on your permit, and a receipt showing you do not have the old one anymore
S&W provide a letter replacement stating it is a replacement including old guns SN - just paper work

Be safe
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