I was thinking of expanding my 45 option with some auto rim, and saw a notice in my GOV. Paper work That said no auto rim!
I thought was odd, what say you? I can't think of why
Thanks in advance
SEMPER PARATUS

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NRA Life Member
CPO

Moons OK, but rims not?
Cannot grasp that.
Will be watching this one.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

I'm not very smart so it's no surprise but I don't have a clue.
Maybe call S&W and ask??? Inquiring minds (like mine) wanna know...

Times two.

Here's a previous post addressing the question.

Anyone Reload The Governor with 45 Auto Rim?

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Ok, so it would seem the 45AR rim is too thick for some revolvers headspaced for 45LC. However, there are 2 work arounds I can think of offhand. You could cut down 45LC cases to 45AR length, But then you'd have to ream the inside of the case because while the 45LC case is straight walled on the outside, it is tapered on the inside. The other, simpler method is to simply download the 45LC reload to 45AR velocities with an appropriate 45ACP projectile. Frankly, if you're insistent on firing 45ACP style rounds, either ACP or AR, then it would seem the prudent thing would be to use ACP with moon clips.

Which brings me to what I don't care for in Governor style handguns. In order to accommodate the 410 shotshell, the cylinder must be long. The bore of the cylinder must be machined out to accommodate the entire length of the shot shell. For the 410 round, that's great. But, the rifled barrel acting on a shot shell designed for a smooth bore, not so good. I suspect that the newer shot shells designed for revolvers perform such that the shot never touches the rifling. For more traditional handgun rounds such as the 45LC, 45ACP, or 45AR that leaves quite a lot of free bore inside the cylinder where nothing is acting on the projectile to keep it straight to enter the forcing cone. If, the projectile does happen to rub some of the free bore, then the projectile may be upset causing it enter the forcing cone slightly upset (not straight). To say nothing of gasses bleeding off from the chamber while the projectile is in free bore.

I would think a more ideal situation would be to take 45-70 cases, which I believe matches the rim diameter thickness and width as 45LC. In addition, I believe the base diameter also matches. Cut down the 45-70 cases to a length much closer to 410 shot shell cases. You'd prolly still have to ream the case mouth to accommodate whichever 45cal bullet you prefer, then load with powder appropriate to the projectile weight and velocities you're trying to achieve. This would place the unfired projectile much closer to the forcing cone and would assure that the projectile would be less likely to be upset before entering the forcing cone. Naturally, this is just a mental exercise for me and many aspects and assumptions of mine may be wrong, but I thought I'd throw it out there. In so far as reloading data is concerned, you're on your own. I have no idea where you'd start with powder or projectile. I do know that in some instances, too little powder for case capacity could be explosive.

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NRA Benefactor

That makes sense tyrod and doubt I do it but sounds like an idea on the 45-70 brass. Thanks.

Wikipedia says a 45-70 case rim diameter is 0.608", while 45 Colt and 410 bore shotshell rims are in the 0.51-0.54" range. So you probably can't use 45-70 brass in the Governor, at least not without some serious adjustments.

In addition, I'm just picturing the empty space you'd have in a 45-70 case holding enough powder to achieve 45 ACP velocities, but with almost 3x the internal capacity. (Admittedly, the mental exercise of making a case that would fit a Governor and then filling it with black powder or Trail Boss would be interesting. Black powder pressures are supposed to be pretty low for the cartridge, and Trail Boss is probably even less given the low velocities that powder is designed to produce.)

I know they make lever action rifles that can accept 45-70, 454 Casull, and 45LC interchangeably.

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NRA Benefactor

45 Auto Rim cost twice as much as 45 Colt, the bullet selection is worse, and has limited availability. The logical answer is to just use 45 Colt or try 45 Schofield if you want something "different".

Sorry- you would be mistaken.

Gun chambered for 45-70 will not shoot any 45 caliber hand gun cartridge.

I believe you are confusing the 460 S&W with 45-70

Even then, no makes a lever gun in 460 S&W that will also cycle 454 Casull or 45 Colt

The only production 460S&W lever gun is made by Bighorn Armory and it will not cycle 454 Casull or 45 Colt.

The 460 is model 90 and the Casull is model 90A.

Be safe
Ruggy

Groo here
To the OP.
The reason the Governor will not shoot AR brass is.....,
The cylinder is cut for the moon clip that goes inside the shells over the star.
When you use a 45 colt or a 410, the rim rest on a ridge that
runs around the OUTSIDE of the cylinder.
The AR rim is too thick.
The moon clip 357's work the same way allowing with or without
clip shooting.
The brass you want is the 45 Cowboy, a 45acp case with a 45 colt rim.
uses 45acp loading data and dyes but a 45 colt shell holder.

45-70 is .458'' dia.. Like 458 Winchester Magnum and 460 Wby..

.45AR is .452'' dia.. Like 45ACP, 45 Long Colt, 460 S&W Magnum.

Btw- 45AR wont shoot in my 460S&W PC either. 460S&W wont fit in Governor

Brilliant! If I could "love" this post, I would. Great idea!

Really?

45C and 45-70 rims are NOT the same size - not even close

As stated earlier 45-70 has nothing in common with 45 caliber handgun cartridges.

You guys need to do some real research.

be safe
Ruggy

In addition to the huge difference in rim diameter between .45-70 and the revolver cartridges .45-70 is a tapered case. While we get away with ignoring the .45 Colt's slight taper I'm pretty sure firing revolver cases in a chamber large enough for .45-70 would result in split cases. .45 Colt is specified to taper to a head diameter 0.0102" larger than .45 ACP 0.2" forward of the cartridge base. .45-70 head diameter is 0.0324" larger than .45 ACP.

Industry standard cartridge, chamber and pressure specifications are available at SAAMI | Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute. Their PDFs open in Internet Explorer but not in Firefox.

By the way, older all steel .45 Colt resizing dies have the taper so they do not create the unsightly slight step that non-tapered carbide dies leave.

Edit to add: Tyrod deserves more credit than simply pointing out that .45-70 cases are too large gives him. The way Judge and Governor chambers are reamed is the exact opposite of how chambers that prioritize accuracy are cut. For that reason it is extremely unlikely that I will ever buy either revolver.

Does the term "squib load" mean anything to those that would use a 45-70 case with a small powder charge! Long case, small powder charge, distributed over a long case means "high chamber pressure" and a
KA BOOM maybe? ? ? ? ! !
jcelect

To me squib load has always meant an underpowered round, like maybe the bullet doesn't clear the barrel. The blow up phenomenon referred to I have always thought the term was a "detonation ". Have I been wrong all this time?

You are correct, 2 totally different phenomenon, and it has been pointed out that there is no way possible a 45-70 would work in the referenced handgun without major modifications.

I'm not sure why you would even want to do this unless you are sitting on a big stash of 45ar brass or ammo. And if you are, maybe it's time to consider buying a 625?

Actually I got a 625-8 PC 4" last year, and the thought of the auto rim to be something different! But I think you are right, because I LOVE moon clips, why fix it if it's not broken! Ps I'm sitting on maybe 10,000 once fired 45acp courtesy of Uncle Sam. And I haven't found any AR brass yet.

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I just use ACP and LC in my governor. Not sure why i would need or want AR which is very expensive anyway.

LC is like driving nails and ACP is quite accurate as well.

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