And that's the problem.

"Rip it apart"?

There are no LGS that I know of, that let you take apart a gun.

On a side note: I did buy a 629 after checking it 3 times AT the LGS! It came home with a canted barrel!



Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

NM, see you already shipped it.

Seeing this makes me wish I had looked over my revolver even more.

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-John

My 627 Pro, purchased a few months ago, is currently back at the factory for the same horribly finished crown as yours. It's unbelievable to me that so many leave the factory that way.

I'm hoping it comes back fine. This gun offers a lot that appeals to me that literally nothing else on the market offers. I hope it comes back good and i Can get past the initial hiccup. This was going to be a heavily used and carried gun.

The front sight is in a dovetail, and just needs to be centered. The rear sight is windage adjustable, and should provide enough range to put point of impact on target. I am not sure what S&W's rational for having windage adjustment front and rear is. My 640Pro has redundant windage adjustment and none for elevation.

Best,
Rick

Wow. That would go back with a letter and follow up phone call. No question. Good luck.

What a shame...how does something like that get out the door?!

It seems like about the time they started the M&P series, the revolver lines quality went into the toilet. Haven't they figured out yet that the gun rush is done for the moment?

YES, I'd be upset with work and I don't think it's just S&W.

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Go West young man..

Wow! Even if the muzzle is more or less normal, the rest of the defects were beyond excuse. The grips are an abomination.

Still, I just bought a new 2.75" 66-8 (actually 2 or 3 weeks ago) and it is splendid. After reading your post I even got out a magnifying glass to really get picky. No problems. And when I bought it, the store had another one. I examined both and both seemed perfect.

All that is to say that some of the production cells (they don't do production lines any more) seem to be better than others.

Good luck with the fixes.

Unacceptable. Poor quality control and manufacturing procedures should be the exception and not the rule. While inspecting your gun before purchasing is fine, the customer should reasonably expect there to not be problems, especially on a high dollar Performance Center revolver.

I feel your pain. There is nothing worse than having to send a gun in for repair, especially a brand new one. My 617-6 had problems with misfires due to light hits. It was so frequent that I had to send the gun back. On the good side, S&W was courteous, attentive, kept me informed and I had the gun back in 12 days. It has performed like a champ with every kind of ammo I want to feed it ever since.

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"In God We Trust"

I did not read the whole thread but I would start with the dealer and ask him what he could do about this.

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Two Handguns every day

Seriously, how does this keep happening?

Here was mind back in Jan:


Completely unacceptable.

I understand that the front sight is in a dovetail but the sight itself is canted.

Don't worry, S&W will make it right with you. The customer service guy is well trained at being nonchalant. I am sure he has plenty of practice.
I am reminded of a new Mazda turbo I bought in the early 90's. I got it home and that night my daughters boyfriend moved his motor-scooter into the garage to keep it out of a brief thunderstorm. In an effort to avoid hitting it while backing up I scraped the entire side of my new car against the side of the garage. As I realized this was happening I drove forward in an attempt to stop the carnage hitting the scooter in the process and damaging the other side of the new car.
S*%t happens. It will go away.

Well, he already returned it to S&W. About all a dealer would do is act as shipper/receiver to S&W, so you don't have to be at home or arrange for Uncle Buck to be there when FedEX comes knocking in a few weeks. That can be a pain. Guns are pretty much non-returnable once they are purchased.

Nothing will change until we stop buying. It will only get worse if that's even possible. If you're on this forum you probably know what to look for in a revolver but many people new to guns and revolvers except a gun like that and think it's normal. There is always a newbie out there ready to buy and so it goes. Sad.

I don't buy new guns anymore. But, if I were looking over a gun to buy new or used and saw things like that........ Especially the grips one look at those grips and I would have handed it back to the store owner and said See ya.

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Two Handguns every day

I have 120 handguns. I own 2 S&W revolvers made after 1982. I will not buy the products I see them turning out today. Guess what, they'll be fine without me! So we are both happy.

I had assumed that the sight looked canted because it was off center. If the dovetail is not cut square, the gun will need a new barrel. I don't see that they can "move" a dovetail. Or, maybe, the front sight itself is faulty. That would be easier to fix.
In either case, if they moved the front sight to the left to compensate for a fault, that is a bigger problem because it implies that they knew something was wrong and tried to fudge it "right"! Kind of like Volkswagen and their Diesel engines.

Best,
Rick

You cannot turn back the clock. If we were still willing to pay for higher quality, S&W would still make higher quality. We have proven otherwise. Capitalism works both ways.

Sorry OP had such a bad experience especially on a high cost product, but S&W will make it right.

Sorry to see those defects, but thanks for the post as I will be looking a little closer, at the 629 PC light hunter I am to pick up next week. Hope I do not have bad dreams in the the mean time. Best of Luck with S&W.

I think the current situation on purchasing revolvers sight unseen is no longer an option for this consumer. Detailed inspection will be required in order to verify workmanship and quality. Buyer must beware. Too bad that it has come to this but it has.

Bill

Ruger is not what they once were either.. witness what the new model GP100's in .44 Special are being shipped out with, and this is not an isolated example.

I recently looked at one at my LGS and its front sight is the same way.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

They owe you a brand new, perfect gun.

This is a Performance Center Revolver which means that it is supposed to be fitted and tuned by a master smith at the Factory.

But any master smith that spent a few minutes with that gun would not have let it go out the door like that.

So S&W made a mistake. Will they make it right?

It is very troubling seeing continued posts of this nature.

S&W is supposed to be the top of the heap.

That is done so that the front sight cleans any debris from the holster every time you draw. Bigger joke is the only way to fix that is a new barrel or to remake the front sight assy. Can't recut the dovetail and use that sight. Somebody had to notice and say ship them that way.

But then there was a thread about some much older S&W J frames that the thumb piece struck the recoil shield on before it moved the bolt all the way forward to release the cylinder. Nothing like this or as common, but, even the old guns were not always perfect.

What I have found is many times when a gun is "special ordered" or bought online, the incidence of poor quality rises dramatically. Seems many times guns are returned to the wholesaler for obvious reasons and then the gun is shipped back out again to the next unsuspecting customer. Seems that because many folks accept a firearm without really looking at it close, it's easier to just keep sending it out until someone accepts it as opposed to sending it back to the mothership right away.

Truth be told, S&W will make it right. Since the beginning of time there have been those products we figured were made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. The true meaning of a quality company is the customer service one receives and a satisfying resolution when it is needed. As for the crown, I'd shoot it before making judgement. As for the rear sight being adjusted to compensate for the canted front.... someone else may have shot it and tried to adjust it. It certainly wasn't adjusted at the factory. They shoot the gun twice to make sure it fires, not for accuracy. Generally why you find only two dirty chambers when buying a new Smith.

Even the bottom grip frame corners are ground at an angle. I've round butted a few and it's not that hard to grind them perpendicular.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

It would have been absolutely fantastic if you could have waited until the problems were fixed before you posted.

I've lost count how many times a poster on X forum whined how his new X is terrible. After weeks of updates on how X hasn't been made properly since 1962, he posts that his X is on the way back from the factory. He then says he will tell us all about how it went....tomorrow.

Around about this time the guy gets amnesia and forgets to tell the 100s following the thread how it went.

FWIW I bought a River Redhawk .45 Colt/ ACP that I was unhappy with the grip fit and trigger pull. I emailed the CEO on a Sat. Monday morning I got a call from River apologizing and asked me if I'd be willing to return it. A few minutes later a lady called from CS again apologizing, and emailed a return label. When I got it back they sent me a free hat and free set of FO sights along with the revolvers issues fixed. It made me feel that they DID care.

New or used anything, I bring my wife's reading glasses, look it over annoyingly well, then make my decision. If the gun isn't right you have a short time frame to completely get out of the deal and that would be right there at the counter. Just say no, don't fill out the 4473 and move on. I know the excitement of getting a new pistol or revolver is overwhelming, but stories like this just solidify my resolve. The only guns I bought sight unseen were 3 Springfield Professionals last month. All were in 100% condition,

[QUOTE=prairieviper;139631471]Unacceptable. Poor quality control and manufacturing procedures should be the exception and not the rule. While inspecting your gun before purchasing is fine, the customer should reasonably expect there to not be problems, especially on a high dollar Performance Center revolver.

Since the 80's most companies have no quality control. Theres no final inspection too. It's up to the machine operator to machine it correctly.

The front sight being canted the barrel wasn't installed the the fixture correctly.

When I was assembling the 155mm howitzers for the US Army each operation was inspected by a inspector before we went to the next assembly operation. I was told that it takes 11 soldiers to operate this gun theirs lives depend on me doing my job correctly.

No crown, not even a bevel or chamfer. There's a reason my I have the crowning tools inhouse.

I'm going to be honest here. I remember when the us company I worked for tried to switch to metric. The engineers and designers had problems doing tolerances in metric. I wonder if this could be the same problem?

From inch to metric multiply the dimension by 25.4. From metric to inch divide by 25.4. I only have a trade school diploma and learned this over 40+ years ago. It looks like your engineers and designers wasted a lot of money or spent to much time partying in college. This comes down to only one thing corporate greed.

I would be more than disappointed OP! I ordered a 1K pistol from Springfield 6 years ago... A "Loaded" 1911; quite an upgrade from my Mil-Spec Springer 1911. I get it home and it won't chamber the first round with any 1911 magazine I have out of 10. The barrel feed ramp was cut at a canted slant at 8 O'clock but had no cut/relief at all on the other side of the barrel chamber where it should be symmetric at say 5 and 4 O'clock. It's breech face wasn't milled strait and worse yet it's frame feed ramp was skewed so hard to the left that NO ball ammo would chamber. Every manufacturer puts out a dud now and then. Springfield made it right by replacing it with the most unstoppable replacement 1911 I've known to date. Contact S&W and they will issue an RMA. Give them a chance to make it right. Or, return that *** to the dealer you bought it from, demand a full refund and let them deal with returning it. I'd be upset too as that should have never left the bench. Just don't let it ruin your weekend because it will be fixed. S&W is a stand up company...

I HAVE POSTED THIS EXACT SENTIMENT TO OUR FORUM, SEVERAL TIMES. INCREASINGLY, QUALITY CONTROL HAS BECOME THE TASK OF THE END USER, OF A S&W FIREARM.......

HORROR STORIES LIKE YOURS HAVE BECOME COMMONPLACE, AND THE "PC" DESIGNATION SEEMS TO ENSURE NO GREATER DEGREE IN CARE, OR ATTENTION TO DETAIL IN THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS, THAN A PRODUCT FROM THE STANDARD LINE........

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I agree, it's a shame they can't take just a minute or two to do it right while it's in their hands.

I choose to fix things myself, when I can, rather than send it back too.

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627-5 PC, barrel crown, before


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627-5 PC, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing


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625-8 PC, barrel crown, before


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625-8 PC, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing


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686-6 TALO, barrel crown, before


686-6 Talo, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing


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Waiting for the break of day

Just another reason why I refuse to buy any new Smiths. I absolutely love the older ones and will buy a 20 yr old gun in a second, but as of late it seems like the quality on any gun put together on an assy line, regardless of brand is lacking. A 1K revolver should be flawless at that price.

This is sad to see that the OP got a poorly inspected gun. But I believe all companies have some guns slip by. Ruger is not immune. I got lucky with my 625 PC, it is absolutely a beauty, and IMO perfect. Except for those clown grips. Of course it could be I am just lucky, only had to send one two guns back. My wife's Glock 22, broken rail, and my CA Pitbull. Eventually ended up selling her Glock, she never liked it.

If my safe was not full I would probably buy another PC, Smith has a reputation for fixing their mistakes.

ETA Keep in mind that some costs for companies have more than doubled in the last few years. Either prices go up, or corners are cut to continue to make a profit, and answer to share holders.

Corporate greed is over simplifying the problem. Having run a business for in excess of 30 years, I have seen a decline in the work ethic of employees over the years. The younger generations seem to feel that the company owes them something whereas the older ones were grateful for the job. There was more pride in workmanship and loyalty then than now. Gradually the "you owe me" people began to outnumber the grateful and loyal workers resulting in less than satisfactory production at higher costs. It is a result of the difference in times that folks are raised in. The corporation must use the available resources (people) to operate and make a profit. That isn't greed nor is it as easy as it once was for corporations to meet the growing demands of workers and government regulations and survive.

One of the few advantages of getting old is that I have the benefit of looking back at things with the experience of life. What we have here is nothing new. I remember Bangor Punta and everyone complaining how Smith will never survive producing such ****. Then came along Lear Seigler and suddenly everyone lamented the loss of the "great" Bangor guns. I won't even begin to get into the things that were said about the junk produced by the Thompson group. Yet, some of the previous posters will only buy Smiths that were produced during these times and tell us about how much better they are than the new guns. The point is that the problems we are seeing are just part of mass production process. They occur with mass produced $1000 handguns and $100000 sedans. It dosen't matter. In the old days, guns, like everything else, were produced one at a time. One person built one gun then attached their name or number to the box. Then automation showed up. Now the machinist who used to machine one frame at a time is operating 8 CNC machines each of which is cutting 6 frames at once. Quality control went from an old guy at the end of the line checking the gun to a laser beam making sure that everything is within a set of specifications. The quality control problems we have here are not unique to Smith & Wesson. Go on any forum about any mass produced object and they are having the same conversations we are. The up side is that we can buy one of these technological marvels for just $1000. If we went back to hand fitting everything and building them one at a time, it is unlikely that most of us could afford to own one gun. Never mind a safe full of them. I think what we have to do when the product dosen't live up to our expectations is: Take a deep breath, think about what your real expectations are and make the factory live up to them.

Lets look at the other side of the coin. Why all the temp companies popping up. Lousy work ethic on one side and the other side cheap disposable help. Lets face it we have to many people that think they deserve a days pay for just showing up and the company thinks you should be thank full you have a job no matter how few crumbs they throw at you. Last but not least the company sets the production and quality standards. The first thing a company has to do is set a standard that the customer likes. Good help will give you what you demand if you take care of them but you have to weed out the bad help first. This is a two sided problem that can be solved it takes team work with both sides giving not just one.

There was an Australian member a few months ago complaining of similar (even worse) issues that he had with a Perf Center Model 41. The gun was actually unshootable. I can't understand how they can call these Performance Center products and send them out like that.
It seems to me that you should call customer service and inform them that you want them to issue a UPS call tag so you can ship it back free. And they should send you a NEW gun, not just rework the one that you have now. I would not bother to shoot it because there would be no point. If it shoots well, you would still want it replaced due to the other issues.

Ya know, people are often down on the later Bangor Punta years (as well as the 3 Lear Siegler years), but none of my late Bangor Punta era revolvers were or are anywhere near as bad as this.

Pretty damn pitiful.

Does that barrel say "read instructions on how to install front sight" ?

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Sure you did

If I were building that gun I'd notice right off the grips didn't fit. I'd also notice right off the sight was cockeyed. That guy building that gun should be fired for ever letting it get out of his work station. Then the QC guy needs to be let go because he obviously never inspected it... A blind man would have noticed that stuff. What it looks like is S&W doesn't bother to inspect all their guns they just ship em out. As for prices going up? They already have... I'd expect a near perfect gun if I was laying out $1K for a revolver. Especially from the custom shop..

Rear sight was not adjusted. Front sight was canted and then installed off center to make up for being canted.

Dont you worry I'm an Internet ***** and well versed on forum posting. I currently have this exact thread on no less than 3 forums plus Facebook and will update when fixed