|
|
|
06-15-2017, 08:09 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The South
Posts: 809
Likes: 221
Liked 665 Times in 295 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus
Well, called, explained, and have a shipping label.
Guy on the phone was completely nonchalant about it. "okay what did you say was wrong?"
Not so much as a "sorry about that" or an "oh that doesn't sound good" or any kind of empathy or anything, lol, just "okay, okay okay, address? okay, the label is being sent......okay bye"
OH well. I printed out a letter detailing the issues. Back from whence it came.....
|
And that's the problem.
|
06-15-2017, 08:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Los Angeles,California
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 3,817
Liked 4,106 Times in 1,215 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce
Yes it's bad...
Reputable online dealers tell you inspect closely "before" accepting the gun.
I rip it apart before I sign for it. I let the paper the LGS is shoving at me sit on the counter.
If you are to embarrassed to properly inspect your investment that is on you. Sorry they told you to inspect.
|
"Rip it apart"?
There are no LGS that I know of, that let you take apart a gun.
On a side note: I did buy a 629 after checking it 3 times AT the LGS! It came home with a canted barrel!
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
|
06-15-2017, 08:29 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 34
Likes: 12
Liked 27 Times in 11 Posts
|
|
NM, see you already shipped it.
Seeing this makes me wish I had looked over my revolver even more.
__________________
-John
Last edited by tiggen; 06-15-2017 at 08:44 PM.
|
06-15-2017, 09:42 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
|
|
My 627 Pro, purchased a few months ago, is currently back at the factory for the same horribly finished crown as yours. It's unbelievable to me that so many leave the factory that way.
|
06-15-2017, 11:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 208
Likes: 43
Liked 705 Times in 99 Posts
|
|
I'm hoping it comes back fine. This gun offers a lot that appeals to me that literally nothing else on the market offers. I hope it comes back good and i Can get past the initial hiccup. This was going to be a heavily used and carried gun.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-15-2017, 11:27 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: La Conner, WA
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 9,091
Liked 2,173 Times in 973 Posts
|
|
The front sight is in a dovetail, and just needs to be centered. The rear sight is windage adjustable, and should provide enough range to put point of impact on target. I am not sure what S&W's rational for having windage adjustment front and rear is. My 640Pro has redundant windage adjustment and none for elevation.
Best,
Rick
|
06-15-2017, 11:33 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,233
Likes: 2,809
Liked 5,794 Times in 1,452 Posts
|
|
Wow. That would go back with a letter and follow up phone call. No question. Good luck.
|
06-15-2017, 11:51 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 5,947
Likes: 24,644
Liked 6,195 Times in 2,575 Posts
|
|
What a shame...how does something like that get out the door?!
Last edited by amazingflapjack; 06-15-2017 at 11:54 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-15-2017, 11:55 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Center Point, Texas
Posts: 275
Likes: 51
Liked 407 Times in 120 Posts
|
|
It seems like about the time they started the M&P series, the revolver lines quality went into the toilet. Haven't they figured out yet that the gun rush is done for the moment?
YES, I'd be upset with work and I don't think it's just S&W.
__________________
Go West young man..
Last edited by 1-1917; 06-15-2017 at 11:56 PM.
|
06-16-2017, 12:03 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ellisville, Missouri
Posts: 2,226
Likes: 4,996
Liked 1,309 Times in 685 Posts
|
|
Wow! Even if the muzzle is more or less normal, the rest of the defects were beyond excuse. The grips are an abomination.
Still, I just bought a new 2.75" 66-8 (actually 2 or 3 weeks ago) and it is splendid. After reading your post I even got out a magnifying glass to really get picky. No problems. And when I bought it, the store had another one. I examined both and both seemed perfect.
All that is to say that some of the production cells (they don't do production lines any more) seem to be better than others.
Good luck with the fixes.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 07:36 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mid USA-Cornfields & Cows
Posts: 640
Likes: 2,350
Liked 1,210 Times in 366 Posts
|
|
Unacceptable. Poor quality control and manufacturing procedures should be the exception and not the rule. While inspecting your gun before purchasing is fine, the customer should reasonably expect there to not be problems, especially on a high dollar Performance Center revolver.
I feel your pain. There is nothing worse than having to send a gun in for repair, especially a brand new one. My 617-6 had problems with misfires due to light hits. It was so frequent that I had to send the gun back. On the good side, S&W was courteous, attentive, kept me informed and I had the gun back in 12 days. It has performed like a champ with every kind of ammo I want to feed it ever since.
__________________
"In God We Trust"
|
06-16-2017, 09:21 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,687
Likes: 9,441
Liked 2,731 Times in 999 Posts
|
|
I did not read the whole thread but I would start with the dealer and ask him what he could do about this.
__________________
Two Handguns every day
|
06-16-2017, 10:15 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 492
Likes: 64
Liked 572 Times in 256 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrydog
My 627 Pro, purchased a few months ago, is currently back at the factory for the same horribly finished crown as yours. It's unbelievable to me that so many leave the factory that way.
|
Seriously, how does this keep happening?
Here was mind back in Jan:
Completely unacceptable.
|
06-16-2017, 10:24 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 208
Likes: 43
Liked 705 Times in 99 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverrat38
The front sight is in a dovetail, and just needs to be centered. The rear sight is windage adjustable, and should provide enough range to put point of impact on target. I am not sure what S&W's rational for having windage adjustment front and rear is. My 640Pro has redundant windage adjustment and none for elevation.
Best,
Rick
|
I understand that the front sight is in a dovetail but the sight itself is canted.
|
06-16-2017, 11:38 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,833
Likes: 1,062
Liked 2,109 Times in 860 Posts
|
|
Don't worry, S&W will make it right with you. The customer service guy is well trained at being nonchalant. I am sure he has plenty of practice.
I am reminded of a new Mazda turbo I bought in the early 90's. I got it home and that night my daughters boyfriend moved his motor-scooter into the garage to keep it out of a brief thunderstorm. In an effort to avoid hitting it while backing up I scraped the entire side of my new car against the side of the garage. As I realized this was happening I drove forward in an attempt to stop the carnage hitting the scooter in the process and damaging the other side of the new car.
S*%t happens. It will go away.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 12:50 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cary NC
Posts: 436
Likes: 76
Liked 141 Times in 74 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by haywood
I did not read the whole thread but I would start with the dealer and ask him what he could do about this.
|
Well, he already returned it to S&W. About all a dealer would do is act as shipper/receiver to S&W, so you don't have to be at home or arrange for Uncle Buck to be there when FedEX comes knocking in a few weeks. That can be a pain. Guns are pretty much non-returnable once they are purchased.
|
06-16-2017, 05:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: glen mills pa. USA
Posts: 775
Likes: 915
Liked 575 Times in 236 Posts
|
|
Nothing will change until we stop buying. It will only get worse if that's even possible. If you're on this forum you probably know what to look for in a revolver but many people new to guns and revolvers except a gun like that and think it's normal. There is always a newbie out there ready to buy and so it goes. Sad.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 06:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: N. Ohio
Posts: 1,687
Likes: 9,441
Liked 2,731 Times in 999 Posts
|
|
I don't buy new guns anymore. But, if I were looking over a gun to buy new or used and saw things like that........ Especially the grips one look at those grips and I would have handed it back to the store owner and said See ya.
__________________
Two Handguns every day
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 06:41 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Battery Oaks Range, S.C.
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 5,663
Liked 3,574 Times in 1,163 Posts
|
|
I have 120 handguns. I own 2 S&W revolvers made after 1982. I will not buy the products I see them turning out today. Guess what, they'll be fine without me! So we are both happy.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 07:50 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: La Conner, WA
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 9,091
Liked 2,173 Times in 973 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus
I understand that the front sight is in a dovetail but the sight itself is canted.
|
I had assumed that the sight looked canted because it was off center. If the dovetail is not cut square, the gun will need a new barrel. I don't see that they can "move" a dovetail. Or, maybe, the front sight itself is faulty. That would be easier to fix.
In either case, if they moved the front sight to the left to compensate for a fault, that is a bigger problem because it implies that they knew something was wrong and tried to fudge it "right"! Kind of like Volkswagen and their Diesel engines.
Best,
Rick
|
06-16-2017, 11:00 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
Posts: 10,183
Likes: 7,176
Liked 14,374 Times in 5,411 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFlores
S&W needs to just go out of business. This way, hopefully someone who actually cares about quality can buy the patents and reproduce them again, properly.
|
You cannot turn back the clock. If we were still willing to pay for higher quality, S&W would still make higher quality. We have proven otherwise. Capitalism works both ways.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-16-2017, 11:02 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: HOUSTON, TEXAS
Posts: 10,183
Likes: 7,176
Liked 14,374 Times in 5,411 Posts
|
|
Sorry OP had such a bad experience especially on a high cost product, but S&W will make it right.
|
06-16-2017, 11:36 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: California
Posts: 31
Likes: 33
Liked 11 Times in 11 Posts
|
|
Sorry to see those defects, but thanks for the post as I will be looking a little closer, at the 629 PC light hunter I am to pick up next week. Hope I do not have bad dreams in the the mean time. Best of Luck with S&W.
|
06-16-2017, 11:59 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Buckeye, Arizona
Posts: 24
Likes: 4
Liked 31 Times in 8 Posts
|
|
I think the current situation on purchasing revolvers sight unseen is no longer an option for this consumer. Detailed inspection will be required in order to verify workmanship and quality. Buyer must beware. Too bad that it has come to this but it has.
Bill
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 03:51 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 1,587
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricR
Another example that would drive me towards Ruger were I in the market for a brand new revolver.
|
Ruger is not what they once were either.. witness what the new model GP100's in .44 Special are being shipped out with, and this is not an isolated example.
I recently looked at one at my LGS and its front sight is the same way.
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 06:46 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,024
Likes: 616
Liked 2,433 Times in 873 Posts
|
|
They owe you a brand new, perfect gun.
This is a Performance Center Revolver which means that it is supposed to be fitted and tuned by a master smith at the Factory.
But any master smith that spent a few minutes with that gun would not have let it go out the door like that.
So S&W made a mistake. Will they make it right?
It is very troubling seeing continued posts of this nature.
S&W is supposed to be the top of the heap.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 07:30 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 13,714
Likes: 12,858
Liked 39,476 Times in 10,046 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker
Ruger is not what they once were either.. witness what the new model GP100's in .44 Special are being shipped out with, and this is not an isolated example.
I recently looked at one at my LGS and its front sight is the same way.
|
That is done so that the front sight cleans any debris from the holster every time you draw. Bigger joke is the only way to fix that is a new barrel or to remake the front sight assy. Can't recut the dovetail and use that sight. Somebody had to notice and say ship them that way.
But then there was a thread about some much older S&W J frames that the thumb piece struck the recoil shield on before it moved the bolt all the way forward to release the cylinder. Nothing like this or as common, but, even the old guns were not always perfect.
|
06-17-2017, 10:11 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: \'ell if I know
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Liked 476 Times in 279 Posts
|
|
What I have found is many times when a gun is "special ordered" or bought online, the incidence of poor quality rises dramatically. Seems many times guns are returned to the wholesaler for obvious reasons and then the gun is shipped back out again to the next unsuspecting customer. Seems that because many folks accept a firearm without really looking at it close, it's easier to just keep sending it out until someone accepts it as opposed to sending it back to the mothership right away.
Truth be told, S&W will make it right. Since the beginning of time there have been those products we figured were made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. The true meaning of a quality company is the customer service one receives and a satisfying resolution when it is needed. As for the crown, I'd shoot it before making judgement. As for the rear sight being adjusted to compensate for the canted front.... someone else may have shot it and tried to adjust it. It certainly wasn't adjusted at the factory. They shoot the gun twice to make sure it fires, not for accuracy. Generally why you find only two dirty chambers when buying a new Smith.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 10:58 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mount Carmel, TN USA
Posts: 3,171
Likes: 1,628
Liked 3,178 Times in 933 Posts
|
|
Even the bottom grip frame corners are ground at an angle. I've round butted a few and it's not that hard to grind them perpendicular.
__________________
Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292
|
06-17-2017, 12:32 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 525
Likes: 989
Liked 465 Times in 188 Posts
|
|
It would have been absolutely fantastic if you could have waited until the problems were fixed before you posted.
I've lost count how many times a poster on X forum whined how his new X is terrible. After weeks of updates on how X hasn't been made properly since 1962, he posts that his X is on the way back from the factory. He then says he will tell us all about how it went....tomorrow.
Around about this time the guy gets amnesia and forgets to tell the 100s following the thread how it went.
|
06-17-2017, 01:06 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Huntingdon Pa.
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 7,673
Liked 9,981 Times in 2,955 Posts
|
|
FWIW I bought a River Redhawk .45 Colt/ ACP that I was unhappy with the grip fit and trigger pull. I emailed the CEO on a Sat. Monday morning I got a call from River apologizing and asked me if I'd be willing to return it. A few minutes later a lady called from CS again apologizing, and emailed a return label. When I got it back they sent me a free hat and free set of FO sights along with the revolvers issues fixed. It made me feel that they DID care.
|
06-17-2017, 03:24 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: ARIZONA
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 103
Liked 1,475 Times in 601 Posts
|
|
New or used anything, I bring my wife's reading glasses, look it over annoyingly well, then make my decision. If the gun isn't right you have a short time frame to completely get out of the deal and that would be right there at the counter. Just say no, don't fill out the 4473 and move on. I know the excitement of getting a new pistol or revolver is overwhelming, but stories like this just solidify my resolve. The only guns I bought sight unseen were 3 Springfield Professionals last month. All were in 100% condition,
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 03:35 PM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,354 Times in 5,549 Posts
|
|
[QUOTE=prairieviper;139631471]Unacceptable. Poor quality control and manufacturing procedures should be the exception and not the rule. While inspecting your gun before purchasing is fine, the customer should reasonably expect there to not be problems, especially on a high dollar Performance Center revolver.
Since the 80's most companies have no quality control. Theres no final inspection too. It's up to the machine operator to machine it correctly.
The front sight being canted the barrel wasn't installed the the fixture correctly.
When I was assembling the 155mm howitzers for the US Army each operation was inspected by a inspector before we went to the next assembly operation. I was told that it takes 11 soldiers to operate this gun theirs lives depend on me doing my job correctly.
Last edited by BigBill; 06-17-2017 at 03:36 PM.
|
06-17-2017, 03:39 PM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,354 Times in 5,549 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by typetwelve
Seriously, how does this keep happening?
Here was mind back in Jan:
Completely unacceptable.
|
No crown, not even a bevel or chamfer. There's a reason my I have the crowning tools inhouse.
|
06-17-2017, 03:42 PM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,354 Times in 5,549 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker
Ruger is not what they once were either.. witness what the new model GP100's in .44 Special are being shipped out with, and this is not an isolated example.
I recently looked at one at my LGS and its front sight is the same way.
|
I'm going to be honest here. I remember when the us company I worked for tried to switch to metric. The engineers and designers had problems doing tolerances in metric. I wonder if this could be the same problem?
|
06-17-2017, 03:58 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 362
Likes: 94
Liked 79 Times in 36 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill
I'm going to be honest here. I remember when the us company I worked for tried to switch to metric. The engineers and designers had problems doing tolerances in metric. I wonder if this could be the same problem?
|
From inch to metric multiply the dimension by 25.4. From metric to inch divide by 25.4. I only have a trade school diploma and learned this over 40+ years ago. It looks like your engineers and designers wasted a lot of money or spent to much time partying in college. This comes down to only one thing corporate greed.
|
06-17-2017, 06:35 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
I would be more than disappointed OP! I ordered a 1K pistol from Springfield 6 years ago... A "Loaded" 1911; quite an upgrade from my Mil-Spec Springer 1911. I get it home and it won't chamber the first round with any 1911 magazine I have out of 10. The barrel feed ramp was cut at a canted slant at 8 O'clock but had no cut/relief at all on the other side of the barrel chamber where it should be symmetric at say 5 and 4 O'clock. It's breech face wasn't milled strait and worse yet it's frame feed ramp was skewed so hard to the left that NO ball ammo would chamber. Every manufacturer puts out a dud now and then. Springfield made it right by replacing it with the most unstoppable replacement 1911 I've known to date. Contact S&W and they will issue an RMA. Give them a chance to make it right. Or, return that *** to the dealer you bought it from, demand a full refund and let them deal with returning it. I'd be upset too as that should have never left the bench. Just don't let it ruin your weekend because it will be fixed. S&W is a stand up company...
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-17-2017, 09:22 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 4,189
Likes: 3,543
Liked 3,996 Times in 1,627 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuout1
What I love about new Smith revolvers is they make you feel like you are part of the manufacturing teem! Don't you love working in quality control. They dont have anyone there doing it!
|
I HAVE POSTED THIS EXACT SENTIMENT TO OUR FORUM, SEVERAL TIMES. INCREASINGLY, QUALITY CONTROL HAS BECOME THE TASK OF THE END USER, OF A S&W FIREARM.......
HORROR STORIES LIKE YOURS HAVE BECOME COMMONPLACE, AND THE "PC" DESIGNATION SEEMS TO ENSURE NO GREATER DEGREE IN CARE, OR ATTENTION TO DETAIL IN THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS, THAN A PRODUCT FROM THE STANDARD LINE........
__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 12:24 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 6,484
Likes: 5,882
Liked 9,332 Times in 3,497 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill
No crown, not even a bevel or chamfer. There's a reason my I have the crowning tools inhouse.
|
I agree, it's a shame they can't take just a minute or two to do it right while it's in their hands.
I choose to fix things myself, when I can, rather than send it back too.
.
627-5 PC, barrel crown, before
.
627-5 PC, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing
.
625-8 PC, barrel crown, before
.
625-8 PC, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing
.
686-6 TALO, barrel crown, before
686-6 Talo, barrel crown, after chamfering, before polishing
.
__________________
Waiting for the break of day
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 12:50 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 413
Likes: 342
Liked 445 Times in 203 Posts
|
|
Just another reason why I refuse to buy any new Smiths. I absolutely love the older ones and will buy a 20 yr old gun in a second, but as of late it seems like the quality on any gun put together on an assy line, regardless of brand is lacking. A 1K revolver should be flawless at that price.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 02:40 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 2,003
Liked 1,653 Times in 809 Posts
|
|
This is sad to see that the OP got a poorly inspected gun. But I believe all companies have some guns slip by. Ruger is not immune. I got lucky with my 625 PC, it is absolutely a beauty, and IMO perfect. Except for those clown grips. Of course it could be I am just lucky, only had to send one two guns back. My wife's Glock 22, broken rail, and my CA Pitbull. Eventually ended up selling her Glock, she never liked it.
If my safe was not full I would probably buy another PC, Smith has a reputation for fixing their mistakes.
ETA Keep in mind that some costs for companies have more than doubled in the last few years. Either prices go up, or corners are cut to continue to make a profit, and answer to share holders.
Last edited by Walkingwolf; 06-18-2017 at 02:58 AM.
|
06-18-2017, 07:08 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: central Florida
Posts: 798
Likes: 1,203
Liked 1,015 Times in 391 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHB51
From inch to metric multiply the dimension by 25.4. From metric to inch divide by 25.4. I only have a trade school diploma and learned this over 40+ years ago. It looks like your engineers and designers wasted a lot of money or spent to much time partying in college. This comes down to only one thing corporate greed.
|
Corporate greed is over simplifying the problem. Having run a business for in excess of 30 years, I have seen a decline in the work ethic of employees over the years. The younger generations seem to feel that the company owes them something whereas the older ones were grateful for the job. There was more pride in workmanship and loyalty then than now. Gradually the "you owe me" people began to outnumber the grateful and loyal workers resulting in less than satisfactory production at higher costs. It is a result of the difference in times that folks are raised in. The corporation must use the available resources (people) to operate and make a profit. That isn't greed nor is it as easy as it once was for corporations to meet the growing demands of workers and government regulations and survive.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 08:33 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 1,187
Liked 4,569 Times in 1,642 Posts
|
|
One of the few advantages of getting old is that I have the benefit of looking back at things with the experience of life. What we have here is nothing new. I remember Bangor Punta and everyone complaining how Smith will never survive producing such ****. Then came along Lear Seigler and suddenly everyone lamented the loss of the "great" Bangor guns. I won't even begin to get into the things that were said about the junk produced by the Thompson group. Yet, some of the previous posters will only buy Smiths that were produced during these times and tell us about how much better they are than the new guns. The point is that the problems we are seeing are just part of mass production process. They occur with mass produced $1000 handguns and $100000 sedans. It dosen't matter. In the old days, guns, like everything else, were produced one at a time. One person built one gun then attached their name or number to the box. Then automation showed up. Now the machinist who used to machine one frame at a time is operating 8 CNC machines each of which is cutting 6 frames at once. Quality control went from an old guy at the end of the line checking the gun to a laser beam making sure that everything is within a set of specifications. The quality control problems we have here are not unique to Smith & Wesson. Go on any forum about any mass produced object and they are having the same conversations we are. The up side is that we can buy one of these technological marvels for just $1000. If we went back to hand fitting everything and building them one at a time, it is unlikely that most of us could afford to own one gun. Never mind a safe full of them. I think what we have to do when the product dosen't live up to our expectations is: Take a deep breath, think about what your real expectations are and make the factory live up to them.
|
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 09:00 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 362
Likes: 94
Liked 79 Times in 36 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdavis
Corporate greed is over simplifying the problem. Having run a business for in excess of 30 years, I have seen a decline in the work ethic of employees over the years. The younger generations seem to feel that the company owes them something whereas the older ones were grateful for the job. There was more pride in workmanship and loyalty then than now. Gradually the "you owe me" people began to outnumber the grateful and loyal workers resulting in less than satisfactory production at higher costs. It is a result of the difference in times that folks are raised in. The corporation must use the available resources (people) to operate and make a profit. That isn't greed nor is it as easy as it once was for corporations to meet the growing demands of workers and government regulations and survive.
|
Lets look at the other side of the coin. Why all the temp companies popping up. Lousy work ethic on one side and the other side cheap disposable help. Lets face it we have to many people that think they deserve a days pay for just showing up and the company thinks you should be thank full you have a job no matter how few crumbs they throw at you. Last but not least the company sets the production and quality standards. The first thing a company has to do is set a standard that the customer likes. Good help will give you what you demand if you take care of them but you have to weed out the bad help first. This is a two sided problem that can be solved it takes team work with both sides giving not just one.
|
06-18-2017, 09:48 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
|
|
There was an Australian member a few months ago complaining of similar (even worse) issues that he had with a Perf Center Model 41. The gun was actually unshootable. I can't understand how they can call these Performance Center products and send them out like that.
It seems to me that you should call customer service and inform them that you want them to issue a UPS call tag so you can ship it back free. And they should send you a NEW gun, not just rework the one that you have now. I would not bother to shoot it because there would be no point. If it shoots well, you would still want it replaced due to the other issues.
|
06-18-2017, 09:57 AM
|
Junior Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 7,707
Likes: 13,905
Liked 9,470 Times in 4,391 Posts
|
|
Pitiful...
Ya know, people are often down on the later Bangor Punta years (as well as the 3 Lear Siegler years), but none of my late Bangor Punta era revolvers were or are anywhere near as bad as this.
Pretty damn pitiful.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 01:36 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,809
Likes: 58,032
Liked 53,089 Times in 16,559 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker
Ruger is not what they once were either
|
Does that barrel say "read instructions on how to install front sight" ?
__________________
Sure you did
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-18-2017, 06:01 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 413
Likes: 342
Liked 445 Times in 203 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf
This is sad to see that the OP got a poorly inspected gun. But I believe all companies have some guns slip by. Ruger is not immune. I got lucky with my 625 PC, it is absolutely a beauty, and IMO perfect. Except for those clown grips. Of course it could be I am just lucky, only had to send one two guns back. My wife's Glock 22, broken rail, and my CA Pitbull. Eventually ended up selling her Glock, she never liked it.
If my safe was not full I would probably buy another PC, Smith has a reputation for fixing their mistakes.
ETA Keep in mind that some costs for companies have more than doubled in the last few years. Either prices go up, or corners are cut to continue to make a profit, and answer to share holders.
|
If I were building that gun I'd notice right off the grips didn't fit. I'd also notice right off the sight was cockeyed. That guy building that gun should be fired for ever letting it get out of his work station. Then the QC guy needs to be let go because he obviously never inspected it... A blind man would have noticed that stuff. What it looks like is S&W doesn't bother to inspect all their guns they just ship em out. As for prices going up? They already have... I'd expect a near perfect gun if I was laying out $1K for a revolver. Especially from the custom shop..
|
06-18-2017, 06:41 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 208
Likes: 43
Liked 705 Times in 99 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck460XVR
What I have found is many times when a gun is "special ordered" or bought online, the incidence of poor quality rises dramatically. Seems many times guns are returned to the wholesaler for obvious reasons and then the gun is shipped back out again to the next unsuspecting customer. Seems that because many folks accept a firearm without really looking at it close, it's easier to just keep sending it out until someone accepts it as opposed to sending it back to the mothership right away.
Truth be told, S&W will make it right. Since the beginning of time there have been those products we figured were made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. The true meaning of a quality company is the customer service one receives and a satisfying resolution when it is needed. As for the crown, I'd shoot it before making judgement. As for the rear sight being adjusted to compensate for the canted front.... someone else may have shot it and tried to adjust it. It certainly wasn't adjusted at the factory. They shoot the gun twice to make sure it fires, not for accuracy. Generally why you find only two dirty chambers when buying a new Smith.
|
Rear sight was not adjusted. Front sight was canted and then installed off center to make up for being canted.
|
06-18-2017, 06:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 208
Likes: 43
Liked 705 Times in 99 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus357
It would have been absolutely fantastic if you could have waited until the problems were fixed before you posted.
I've lost count how many times a poster on X forum whined how his new X is terrible. After weeks of updates on how X hasn't been made properly since 1962, he posts that his X is on the way back from the factory. He then says he will tell us all about how it went....tomorrow.
Around about this time the guy gets amnesia and forgets to tell the 100s following the thread how it went.
|
Dont you worry I'm an Internet ***** and well versed on forum posting. I currently have this exact thread on no less than 3 forums plus Facebook and will update when fixed
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|