Hi guys,

It's my first post here and I'm glad to join the community. Got my hands on a brand new 929 JM revolver a week ago. It came with 3 TK moonclips. By the recommendation of the shop I got a good stash of this Gecko ammo. However, using it with the TK moonclips is virtually impossible. I need to push the round so hard to get it into the clip that I start worrying it may explode in my hands. Extracting the spent casing is even tougher. I filed slightly the cams of two of the clips so now it's easier to get the ammo in and out of it but the line between having too tight and too loose of a fit is very thin. So I feel adapting the moonclips to the ammo is not the best way to go. Made a little Google search and came across these clips. The idea looks really awesome. What a pity they don't ship outside the US! Bought some moonclips from an e-bay seller and will play around with my Dremel tool to copy the idea. So my question is:

Has anyone found similar (with cuts for a slight spring-action) moonclips that can be shipped outside the US? And also, if there's anyone who has used them, what's your opinion on them?

Use Winchester brass. Can you get new Winchester ammo? The Winchester white box work well on the factory moon clips. Or you can use Winchester brass and load them where you're at.
Cutting into strong spring steel may not give desired results...

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Thank you Lou,

I will try to find the Winchester. Have Winchester .22 LR ammo for my 617 so they must be available in Switzerland. The thing is I bought a 1000 of the Geckos and it will be hard to get rid of them in a way other than just throwing them back. Plus from what I've read so far, moonclips are in general not-so-easy to work with unless you have a loading device (which is my next option if the cuts don't do).
Indeed, cutting in this steel will not be a snap but it's worth the try. In any case I'll report on the results.

Welcome to the forum!
(Where are my manners)

The Winchester load with your fingertips. The diameter is perfect on them. You won't be disappointed. To remove, although they say you need a special tool, but for years I would pull them out by inserting a metal rod and yanking them out. It was easy enough for me.
Keep it simple.

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Thank you again, Lou! Well, there are your manners!

Indeed, it's easier to adapt something (a screwdriver, a metal rod, etc.) for the removal of the fired casings but for loading you need tough fingers. Or a tool. At least in the case of the Geckos but, I believe, other brands out there.

Check out a BMT moon clip tool. They will ship internationally.

My first removal tool for moonclip brass was a wood dowel rod with as large a diameter that fits. I have tender baby hands so I wear leather gloves when doing brass removal.

Most of the small businesses that provide tools for shooters are too small to want to bother with export licences and other government requirements. The common belief in US is no other countries allow firearms ownership so export is not pursued.

You might explore Brownells and Midway USA websites to see if they ship to Switzerland.

Good luck(maybe you can swap your Geco with someone who has Winch.).

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Yes. I wouldn't use the geckos.

Since you mentioned a dremel....maybe i could give you some tips on homemade loading and unloading tools. All made with tools you may already have. For the unloader: you can use a pipe, the diameter maybe a .500 depending how thick to fit over the spent round. And make notches with a hacksaw or a dremel. For mine, i used a "used" nutdriver i already had, and hacksawed the tip then made my notches. Crude but effective. With a loader, simple pair of pliers work.

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Yeah, there's tons of possibilities. I'll try an "universal" solution first and, should this fail, seek one of the many solutions proposed.

Spend the money and buy the BMT tool that sodacan linked to - you can thank us later. The moon clips you linked to in your OP are from S&W and can be purchased from them for less than the price indicated in your link. I don't know if they ship internationally, but perhaps they are available to your LGS from the European S&W distributor.

Moon clips for the 9 mm and .38 Super can be finicky about what brass they will accommodate - as you have already found out. Once you have a combination that works, separate your brass and use only the correct headstamp brass with your clips. I use the ones that you linked to for my .38 Super and they work terrifically with Starline brass. It also depends what you are going to do with your gun. If it is just a range toy, then any clip that fits your brass and is easy load & unload the clip is fine. If you are going to compete, with reloads on the clock, you need to find the clip/brass combo that holds the ammo the most rigidly.

It's an adventure and a PITA, but once you get it figured out, it's smooth sailing and pure enjoyment.

Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Try revolver supply co- they have a huge selection for moonclip stuff

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Guns + Dogs= Bliss

I don't have any 9mm clips but I know my 45 moonclips have much easier times with certain brass - I prefer Winchester. Also my clips have gotten much easier to use over time. The first time or 2 using the clips is the worst.

I use 2 wooden dowels to remove the clips. One through the center to help hold the clip and one inside the case to help slip it off. Once I got this process worked out it is pretty easy to do. I can unload a clip in less time than it takes to load a 1911 magazine.

Hi Bob,

Yep, I was thinking about BMT and it would be a part of the solution if I fail finding (or making myself) moonclips with cuts.
I searched the ones shown in the OP in S&W webpage but there are only TKs like the ones I already have under this product number.
And yes, I intend (for now) to use the 929 for target shooting only so fast reloading is not an issue. I just don't want to spend 2/3 of my time in the range struggling with tight moonclips.

Yep, they do. No ones with cuts though...

Indeed, steel also wears with time so the clips accommodate to the ammo. In the case with the Geckos, however, I will have to go through the entire stock before they start fitting well.

Vlad:

Pure conjecture on my part, so how you proceed is up to you. I did a Google search for the manufacturer's number shown in the link in your original post (192130000)...

S&W, 192130000 - Google Search

...and got quite a few hits, although when you go to the sites listed about half show pictures of the solid arm clips (TK Custom manufacture - stamped) and the others with the split-arm configuration (probably Hearthco manufacture - EDM cut).

My guess is that Smith changed vendors from Hearthco to TK they also changed SKU numbers from 248380000 to the 192130000. The former SKU is still sold by S&W but is listed as being for the PC .38 Super 627-4 only. In most cases, including the ad linked in your OP, clips listed generally specify that they fit both 9 mm and .38 Super brass - the extractor groove diameter only differs by .03 mm (the .38 Super is smaller 8.76 mm vs 8.79 mm for the parabellum).

If you order the 192130000 SKU from any of the vendors listed, I would e-mail them first to insure that you get the split-arm type that you seek. In the alternative you can try the 248380000 SKU directly from S&W via their European distributors.

No guarantee that any of this is correct, or that it will work as indicated. Definitely go for the BMT. Good luck in your quest.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Bob, I must have read your mind. Did the same Google search and came across (among the other vendors) this one:

S&W 192130000 FULLMN CLIP SW929 PF 3PK 33% OFF

They ship to Europe although the shipment price equals the price of the merchandise (I ordered 2 sets of 3 pcs each). Grrrrr! But such is life sometimes. Still cheaper than a lunch for two here in Switzerland...

I have no idea why S&W (and, for that matter, every other manufacturer) has not adopted widely this design. It would (at least on theory) accommodate ANY brass in the market that the moonclip in question is designed for. On top of that - with a perfect fit and no lateral "play".

Edit: P.S. Thank you so much for the offer to email the vendors!

Update:

The vendor didn't seem to ship to Switzerland. Got 16 pcs of RIMZ plastic moonclips from Denny Bennett from ezmoonclip and 4 pcs of Revolver Supply from an e-bay vendor. Extremely pleased with both of them. There's my video comment on them.

Vlad:

Thanks so much for posting the video. I was unaware that the poly moon clips were available for the 929. The last I checked (some time ago) they weren't.

Surprised at how rigidly the poly clips held the 9 mm cartridges. I doubt that there are any metal clips out there that hold them as rigidly, as is shown in your video. Rather than being attributable to the overall thickness of the clip, I believe that it is due to the rebate cut in the clip that surrounds the case head - the rebate is how they can use thicker material without any clearance problems.

Although I believe that the manufacturer specifically says they are not intended for competitive use, I believe that, at least in club level matches, they would work fine. I want to try them for my .38 Super - there is only .03 mm difference in extractor groove diameter (Super is smaller). BTW, I'm using Starline brass.

I had the same problem with the TK clips with the Super. Even with a BMT tool the cartridges were near impossible to load or unload the clip, and even when the clip was loaded, cartridge "flop" was unacceptable.

Good luck with your 929.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Great video work and my compliments on your English....far superior to my German, French or Italian!

I think it's wise to move away from the slotted clip effort. I was concerned that dremeling the slots would cause the clips to lose their temper. I have some RIMZ but only use them for casual range visits. Some revolvers will not accept them due to space limitations.

Common knowledge among 929 competitive shooters is that Winchester 9mm brass fits the TK clips best. Unfortunately, I had already stocked up on Federal 147 gr. ammo before I learned this.

I am interested to hear about the durability of the RIMZ after extensive use.

Good shooting to you!

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Hi Bob,

Yeah, they do produce the RIMZ also for the 929s. Apparently, not since long ago.

Fully agree with you on the thickness - the casings are held also by the rebates which, of course, is only possible with thicker moonclips. Didin't do great job explaining it in the video though... Apparently the TKs have a reputation of being really tight but even so they don't hold the rounds more firmly than the RIMZ in terms of wobble, even if the latter are made of polymer and, as such, are not as rigid as steel moonclips.

Have no idea how will the RIMZ perform in the hands of Jerry Miculek and if he will be able to come close to his fast shooting record with them but for me they will work great. I dropped a loaded moonclip 3 times on the carpet at home from almost 4 feet - no round came loose. The only major drawback of the RIMZ for a fast shooter that I can see is that they can not be held on these magnetic belts that they often use.

Maybe the TKs would work better on other brass, no idea. But, first, I had only 3 of them and, second, I prefer to have something that is versatile and gives the shooter a choice of the whole range of ammo that's out there.

Cheers!

Thank you, Bob! Well, my Eastern European accent (I was born and raised in Bulgaria) shows through though but I hope everybody understands what I'm saying on the video. And if you speak German, French and Italian (even if ot's worse than my English) - my hat is off.

Indeed, the slotted clips effort is canceled now. Tried to cut one of the TKs with the Dremel - I'd rather rebuild an Egyptian pyramide than cutting slots on 10 or so clips. I can bring them to our machine shop and have them cut either by laser or water jet but having discovered the RIMZ and the RS there's no need for that.

I doubt the RIMZ will retire the revolver - after all they're made of polymers with all its limitations. One should be careful stocking them - they have to be kept loose, otherwise the polymer would creep under long steady loading. A jar or a box should be perfect but NOT a zipper bag next to the revolver in its foam-lined box. After all, they are consumables and even if a stock of 16 of them lasts only a year or two for me, it would be OK - I pay the range USD 50/hour here in Switzerland, ammo paid separately, so the contribution of the moonclips to the overall expense associated with shooting is negligible.

Will let you guys know about the durability of the RIMZ. Stay tuned.