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  #51  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apollo99 View Post
Why the laser won't give true accuracy results. The laser down the barrel will give you point of aim in relationship to the barrel / sights. The actual bore size and quality of rifling will determine accuracy as well the quality of the crown. You can have a revolver that passes the laser test, that will fail miserably in the accuracy dept. The laser is an OK start, but not the true determination of accuracy. The laser would would show ok on a worn out smooth barrel with a chip taken out of the crown.
All true enough, but obviously you can't determine actual accuracy without shooting the gun, and with a new one you obviously can't shoot it before you buy it.

I think the point was more to check to see if the gun is put together well and check to see that everything is in alignment on a NEW gun. Maybe not a definitive test, but probably about the most you can do pre-purchase.

Seems like it would sure be better than nothing to me....
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  #52  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:51 AM
silversnake silversnake is offline
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Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Can anyone recommend a good bear load for a Model 28?
For black bear, Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast. Browns and grizzlies, bring a rifle.
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  #53  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:28 AM
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While I know there's no longer a functional problem w/the internal lock (IL) I cannot bring myself to buy a new S&W equipped that way. There's a pride of ownership that goes w/owning a fine revolver and if I'm going to spend that much, it will not be on a S&W w/the IL. How many others feel the same way?
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:00 AM
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I don't post in this section of the forum very often. Most of my collection is in the pre-war and early post war era and more than a couple of handfuls in the 1960-1980 era. I collect pre war .22 LR's, pre-war .357 Magnums; I love the 5-screw guns, the 4-screw guns, the P&R 3-screw guns and I am not a fan of the lock (primarily an aesthetic preference). BUT all of the lock guns I have purchased and have shot are great guns AND you cannot find a P&R 10-shot K-22, a 7-shot P&R L-frame 357, nor a pre-war 8-shot N-Frame 357 Magnum - and those high capacity wheel guns are way cool - in both design and in function.








We sometimes forget that even the older guns (including the Registered Magnums) went back to the factory for some fine tuning. When it comes to S&W revolvers, I expect folks to buy what they like, but I will not turn my nose up at something new, just because "it's not the same as it was..."
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  #55  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Like it or not the MIM parts should not make today's guns any worse coming off the shelf than a vintage gun in like new shape.

But yes, I have a problems with sloppy fitting parts that need repair or readjusting at the factory. If you get a good new gun off the shelf, chances are that it will stay good for a long time.

Even the IL shouldn't affect the performance and quality of a gun.

But too many have issues that only the factory can easily and reliably solve at no cost to you.

That canted barrel thing is the worst to me. A tiny indexing mark on the barrel and frame would make sense. Instead, a guy 'eyeballs' the thing with a wrench. It would be simpler for the user and the factory to have index marks but somehow that 'drives the cost up'.
Then somebody would complain about the indexing mark.
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  #56  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:48 PM
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Over the last six years I have bought the following Smith's -
637(x2)
442
60
57
66
69
M&P 45c
M&P 22 full size (Walther made)

All were purchased new and I have been satisfied overall. Only two issues to speak of - the 66 (newest iteration) had the slightly canted barrel. Still shoots point of aim and digests hot handloads just fine. The M&P 22 will not reliably function on standard target ammo. Then again that's an imported gun.... I should note I grew up with the old smiths and own a no dash 586. I like them all. And I do happen to use a laser to check for ballpark poi. YMMV.


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  #57  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:19 PM
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I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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  #58  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:14 PM
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I have had much better experiences with new revolvers from S&W. Especially with my 686+ 4 inch because I put it to the test in part of a close quarters combat class. Offhand, I can think of three "NEW" S&W revolvers I have acquired in the past year or more (actually more - call it several years), with locks (yawn; I don't care), and they are all nicely put together and shoot just great.
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  #59  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:41 PM
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My newest S&W revolver is a 1981 Model 63. Never shot any newer so can't comment in that regard.

IMHO the new ones on the shelf aren't as pretty as the older classic ones. Not talking finish but rather the design and lines.

Same with corvettes. The current design is too angular for me.
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  #60  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:32 PM
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locks mim and qc issues, bout like lions tigers and bears I reckon.
I avoided the new wheel guns like the plague for years and stuck with my 5" 629-3 till I cracked and had to have a 329PD 4" I found local here in AZ private sale for a good price. Chucked the G30 in the safe and been carrying 329 ever since full of 240G white box. It's neutered now with one of my lock delete part sets I make and no transfer bar that thing rattled like all git out. Before I did that I thought I needed a trigger job bad but I'm here to tell you that transfer bar hammer block part made my trigger have a serious hitch in its giddyup. Dump it and the lock you'll be surprised what it feels like with that bar gone. Pretty nice now but not a tuned match gun thats for sure. The trigger is kinda heavy but I like it that way for carry that little pig can get unruly during rapid fire. Now on the other hand my 629-3 has a hare trigger on SA man you fart and it goes off.
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  #61  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:54 PM
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l don't need a Lazer to tell me where the barrel is pointed.

That's what they make bullets for..
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  #62  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:34 AM
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It's not a transfer bar & it's very ill-advised to remove it.
Denis
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  #63  
Old 07-18-2017, 06:54 AM
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Default IL, MIM, ETC AGAIN !!!

Here we go again



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  #64  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comiskeybum View Post
I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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Read the history (do a search). Your answer makes no sense in the face of the facts.
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  #65  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:13 AM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
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Originally Posted by sw282 View Post
l don't need a Lazer to tell me where the barrel is pointed.

That's what they make bullets for..
You never read, or understood wht the laser was for. Unless you have a gunshop that lets you test fire revolvers before buying them? Can you post their address? Id love to do business with them.
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  #66  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:15 AM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comiskeybum View Post
I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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Or like Jerry M, Smith & Wesson's own factory competition shooter, removes the lock all together on all his competition guns. I wonder why he does that?
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  #67  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
I don't post in this section of the forum very often. Most of my collection is in the pre-war and early post war era and more than a couple of handfuls in the 1960-1980 era. I collect pre war .22 LR's, pre-war .357 Magnums; I love the 5-screw guns, the 4-screw guns, the P&R 3-screw guns and I am not a fan of the lock (primarily an aesthetic preference). BUT all of the lock guns I have purchased and have shot are great guns AND you cannot find a P&R 10-shot K-22, a 7-shot P&R L-frame 357, nor a pre-war 8-shot N-Frame 357 Magnum - and those high capacity wheel guns are way cool - in both design and in function.








We sometimes forget that even the older guns (including the Registered Magnums) went back to the factory for some fine tuning. When it comes to S&W revolvers, I expect folks to buy what they like, but I will not turn my nose up at something new, just because "it's not the same as it was..."
If folks like Rick and Doc44 own IL guns that's good enough for me. The usual bashers who make their living here bellyaching don't hold sway in their views, imo.

Clocked barrel and crappy crown, oh the horror. They sure don't make em like they used to.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/138174372-post6.html

Have a nice day.

Last edited by ladder13; 07-18-2017 at 08:34 AM.
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  #68  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
<snip>

The lock is only a problem if you make it a problem.
Thank you. It's like the advertising on the barrel - if you bought the gun to shoot, then the lettering on the barrel is immaterial. If you bought the gun to sit and fondle and make a fetish of, then you bought it for the wrong reasons IMNSHO.

Go shoot - forget what the barrel looks like if it shoots well. If the lock really bothers you, then don't look at it.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:44 AM
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More obviously, the laser cartridge in a revolver will tell you how a round sits in the cylinder. It will tell you absolutely nothing about the barrel or what that bullet will do once it leaves the cylinder.
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  #70  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:05 PM
Dennismn Dennismn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamHands View Post
Do I like the lock... hell no! I let it stop me from buying quite a few new Smiths. I spent months looking for minty vintage Smith's and (1) Colt... and I paid a premium for them. I like them so much that I would do it again. I spent a year looking for a Model 25 in .45acp. No 25's to be found in my area that wasn't grossly overpriced so I took a chance on a 625-8. I have to say it's been nice. No, it isn't as quite as nice as my 70's Smiths but it's a decent bit better than I was told it was going to be. So I'm replacing the lock and plugging the frame and enjoying shooting .45acp and Super's from a revolver. YMMV.
I'm with you.

I don't think S&W has reduced the "quality" of their guns one bit. What they have done is taken away the "artistic" touches like the beautiful deep blue finish and the forged parts. Even that damn pimple on the side of the guns isn't really a problem.

I routinely shoot older model 80's revolvers along side a new production 686 Pro Series - the new 686 is as good, or better. other than the nicer look of the older parts and bluing, there is no real difference.

I know some guys are going to bash me on that and claim their newer revolvers are not as smooth, ect. And that is true - the new revolvers haven't had a chance to break in.

Put a thousand rounds through them - they will come out as sweet as you actually need, at least mine have.
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