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  #51  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:51 AM
silversnake silversnake is offline
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Can anyone recommend a good bear load for a Model 28?
For black bear, Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast. Browns and grizzlies, bring a rifle.
  #52  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:28 AM
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While I know there's no longer a functional problem w/the internal lock (IL) I cannot bring myself to buy a new S&W equipped that way. There's a pride of ownership that goes w/owning a fine revolver and if I'm going to spend that much, it will not be on a S&W w/the IL. How many others feel the same way?
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  #53  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:00 AM
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I don't post in this section of the forum very often. Most of my collection is in the pre-war and early post war era and more than a couple of handfuls in the 1960-1980 era. I collect pre war .22 LR's, pre-war .357 Magnums; I love the 5-screw guns, the 4-screw guns, the P&R 3-screw guns and I am not a fan of the lock (primarily an aesthetic preference). BUT all of the lock guns I have purchased and have shot are great guns AND you cannot find a P&R 10-shot K-22, a 7-shot P&R L-frame 357, nor a pre-war 8-shot N-Frame 357 Magnum - and those high capacity wheel guns are way cool - in both design and in function.








We sometimes forget that even the older guns (including the Registered Magnums) went back to the factory for some fine tuning. When it comes to S&W revolvers, I expect folks to buy what they like, but I will not turn my nose up at something new, just because "it's not the same as it was..."
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Like it or not the MIM parts should not make today's guns any worse coming off the shelf than a vintage gun in like new shape.

But yes, I have a problems with sloppy fitting parts that need repair or readjusting at the factory. If you get a good new gun off the shelf, chances are that it will stay good for a long time.

Even the IL shouldn't affect the performance and quality of a gun.

But too many have issues that only the factory can easily and reliably solve at no cost to you.

That canted barrel thing is the worst to me. A tiny indexing mark on the barrel and frame would make sense. Instead, a guy 'eyeballs' the thing with a wrench. It would be simpler for the user and the factory to have index marks but somehow that 'drives the cost up'.
Then somebody would complain about the indexing mark.
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  #55  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:48 PM
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Over the last six years I have bought the following Smith's -
637(x2)
442
60
57
66
69
M&P 45c
M&P 22 full size (Walther made)

All were purchased new and I have been satisfied overall. Only two issues to speak of - the 66 (newest iteration) had the slightly canted barrel. Still shoots point of aim and digests hot handloads just fine. The M&P 22 will not reliably function on standard target ammo. Then again that's an imported gun.... I should note I grew up with the old smiths and own a no dash 586. I like them all. And I do happen to use a laser to check for ballpark poi. YMMV.


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  #56  
Old 07-17-2017, 05:19 PM
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I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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  #57  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:14 PM
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I have had much better experiences with new revolvers from S&W. Especially with my 686+ 4 inch because I put it to the test in part of a close quarters combat class. Offhand, I can think of three "NEW" S&W revolvers I have acquired in the past year or more (actually more - call it several years), with locks (yawn; I don't care), and they are all nicely put together and shoot just great.
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  #58  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:41 PM
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My newest S&W revolver is a 1981 Model 63. Never shot any newer so can't comment in that regard.

IMHO the new ones on the shelf aren't as pretty as the older classic ones. Not talking finish but rather the design and lines.

Same with corvettes. The current design is too angular for me.
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  #59  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:32 PM
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locks mim and qc issues, bout like lions tigers and bears I reckon.
I avoided the new wheel guns like the plague for years and stuck with my 5" 629-3 till I cracked and had to have a 329PD 4" I found local here in AZ private sale for a good price. Chucked the G30 in the safe and been carrying 329 ever since full of 240G white box. It's neutered now with one of my lock delete part sets I make and no transfer bar that thing rattled like all git out. Before I did that I thought I needed a trigger job bad but I'm here to tell you that transfer bar hammer block part made my trigger have a serious hitch in its giddyup. Dump it and the lock you'll be surprised what it feels like with that bar gone. Pretty nice now but not a tuned match gun thats for sure. The trigger is kinda heavy but I like it that way for carry that little pig can get unruly during rapid fire. Now on the other hand my 629-3 has a hare trigger on SA man you fart and it goes off.
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  #60  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:54 PM
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l don't need a Lazer to tell me where the barrel is pointed.

That's what they make bullets for..
  #61  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:34 AM
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It's not a transfer bar & it's very ill-advised to remove it.
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  #62  
Old 07-18-2017, 06:54 AM
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Default IL, MIM, ETC AGAIN !!!

Here we go again



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  #63  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comiskeybum View Post
I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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Read the history (do a search). Your answer makes no sense in the face of the facts.
  #64  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:13 AM
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l don't need a Lazer to tell me where the barrel is pointed.

That's what they make bullets for..
You never read, or understood wht the laser was for. Unless you have a gunshop that lets you test fire revolvers before buying them? Can you post their address? Id love to do business with them.
  #65  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by comiskeybum View Post
I'll say it again. Just don't use the lock.

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Or like Jerry M, Smith & Wesson's own factory competition shooter, removes the lock all together on all his competition guns. I wonder why he does that?
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  #66  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKmesa View Post
I don't post in this section of the forum very often. Most of my collection is in the pre-war and early post war era and more than a couple of handfuls in the 1960-1980 era. I collect pre war .22 LR's, pre-war .357 Magnums; I love the 5-screw guns, the 4-screw guns, the P&R 3-screw guns and I am not a fan of the lock (primarily an aesthetic preference). BUT all of the lock guns I have purchased and have shot are great guns AND you cannot find a P&R 10-shot K-22, a 7-shot P&R L-frame 357, nor a pre-war 8-shot N-Frame 357 Magnum - and those high capacity wheel guns are way cool - in both design and in function.








We sometimes forget that even the older guns (including the Registered Magnums) went back to the factory for some fine tuning. When it comes to S&W revolvers, I expect folks to buy what they like, but I will not turn my nose up at something new, just because "it's not the same as it was..."
If folks like Rick and Doc44 own IL guns that's good enough for me. The usual bashers who make their living here bellyaching don't hold sway in their views, imo.

Clocked barrel and crappy crown, oh the horror. They sure don't make em like they used to.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/138174372-post6.html

Have a nice day.

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  #67  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
<snip>

The lock is only a problem if you make it a problem.
Thank you. It's like the advertising on the barrel - if you bought the gun to shoot, then the lettering on the barrel is immaterial. If you bought the gun to sit and fondle and make a fetish of, then you bought it for the wrong reasons IMNSHO.

Go shoot - forget what the barrel looks like if it shoots well. If the lock really bothers you, then don't look at it.
  #68  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:44 AM
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More obviously, the laser cartridge in a revolver will tell you how a round sits in the cylinder. It will tell you absolutely nothing about the barrel or what that bullet will do once it leaves the cylinder.
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  #69  
Old 07-18-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HamHands View Post
Do I like the lock... hell no! I let it stop me from buying quite a few new Smiths. I spent months looking for minty vintage Smith's and (1) Colt... and I paid a premium for them. I like them so much that I would do it again. I spent a year looking for a Model 25 in .45acp. No 25's to be found in my area that wasn't grossly overpriced so I took a chance on a 625-8. I have to say it's been nice. No, it isn't as quite as nice as my 70's Smiths but it's a decent bit better than I was told it was going to be. So I'm replacing the lock and plugging the frame and enjoying shooting .45acp and Super's from a revolver. YMMV.
I'm with you.

I don't think S&W has reduced the "quality" of their guns one bit. What they have done is taken away the "artistic" touches like the beautiful deep blue finish and the forged parts. Even that damn pimple on the side of the guns isn't really a problem.

I routinely shoot older model 80's revolvers along side a new production 686 Pro Series - the new 686 is as good, or better. other than the nicer look of the older parts and bluing, there is no real difference.

I know some guys are going to bash me on that and claim their newer revolvers are not as smooth, ect. And that is true - the new revolvers haven't had a chance to break in.

Put a thousand rounds through them - they will come out as sweet as you actually need, at least mine have.
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  #70  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:38 PM
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Default The same as any.........

If I bought a new S&W or any new gun, I'd like to inspect THAT gun before I bought it, not a display modell. Mim, Il, barrel type, that's the way they come nowadays. If I couldn't tell on close inspection something as obvious as a canted, misaligned or overclocked barrel, finish problems or even function problems to some extent without shooting it, it probably doesn't need to be returned or sent back to S&W until something actually BREAKS.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:45 PM
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Most the S&W revolvers I see in gun shops are fine guns. You do see some 686-6 with not so great finishes or triggers but these are made for the big box stores.

If you go to a S&W Stocking dealer and look you will see top of the line guns.

If you go to the hottest online dealer or a gun show dealer you will see the monday morning and friday afternoon production and parts bin gun.

Frankly, if you look for a bargain and go to the discount seller you will see the base model of any product.

I have seen some really good S&W guns from good dealers and distributors.

My only gun with a lock is great.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:01 AM
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All you guys who canít stand the newer guns and want guns built the way they used to be, just get your wallets out and be prepared to pay $1500+ for a new revolver. Then when they arenít up to your expectations you can bitch all you want. Yes, a Registered Magnum cost about $80 as I recall. That was a much different dollar for one thing. For another, a S&W employee couldnít necessarily afford to buy a new S&W.
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  #73  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:53 AM
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I understand what the OP is saying. I prefer the older guns myself. But I’m older, having purchased my first Model 57 in 1980. I since have purchased a 29-3 and a 629-1, so all three of mine are older models.

However, I am glad the company has survived. I am glad they are making models like the 460XVR.

And although I, too, dislike the lock (on Marlin rifles, too!) and am not happy with the CS issues that have cropped up, it is what it is. I don’t think ANY S&W revolvers should leave the factory with a canted barrel. Period.

I can’t help but feel the old school employees were more skilled, but that is true of most American industry nowadays.

However, I am glad folks like their new S&Ws, knowing that feeling well myself back in the early 80s.

I was able to find my latest two acquisitions in the last six months, so they are still out there. As for you newer-model owners, rock on!
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  #74  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:54 AM
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I know nothing of the quality of the newer S&Ws, as the only 2 I own are my Model 10-8 I bought in '98 when it was around 10 years old and my dad's old K22 Masterpiece that I believe he bought new in/around 1951. They obviously made both of them to perfection because I can't miss a thing with the .22 up to maybe 40 yards (I will never put a screwdriver on the rear adj. sight...never!) and the .38, if it misses at the same distance, is user error. Very well-spent $200 20 yrs. ago. I have one or two friends and none have ever complained about new S & Ws. Spend the extra $40 and buy the gun at your LGS where you can touch it, fondle it, look down the barrel, etc. A few places around here will let you shoot it at their range in the basement or out back if they have one. Save your mail-order guns for the inexpensive handguns, like those used Italian guns and the 1911s from the Philipines. I would not drop $800 on a revolver that I could not shoot first. For every S&W that has a factory defect I would bet there are 10,000 or more excellent revolvers/pistols.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hammer 1 View Post
I have the same opinion, I would like them to feel as close as possible, my 57 is close to my old 19-4 inthe feel of the trigger. I need to try the moly though, every little bit helps
I can pick up any of my revolvers and expect the same trigger let off. It also makes me more accurate with each one.
  #76  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:27 PM
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I like the new ones just fine. I only wish that that were more blued ones. Plenty of junk was made before 1980.
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  #77  
Old 01-15-2018, 03:06 PM
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Itís like a new pair of shoes most need breakin?
  #78  
Old 01-15-2018, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
While I know there's no longer a functional problem w/the internal lock (IL) I cannot bring myself to buy a new S&W equipped that way. There's a pride of ownership that goes w/owning a fine revolver and if I'm going to spend that much, it will not be on a S&W w/the IL. How many others feel the same way?
I almost feel the same way, but for every IL, there is a Plug waiting to be sold. Or other more insidious solutions.

While most of the older guns of a certain period (NOT late sixties and seventies) were better made, they did not include a 325PD. Want one? Buy it and fix it. Same for the reproduction 1917 (22-4). It has better sights, and was offered in nickel. There aren't any originals out there in nickel and 1/8" sights.

Life's a bitch, and then you die.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MJFlores View Post
You never read, or understood wht the laser was for. Unless you have a gunshop that lets you test fire revolvers before buying them? Can you post their address? Id love to do business with them.
You are quite right. However, I have found a solution. Deal with one LGS for everything, and buy only used guns. My LGS lets me test fire used guns, and it has worked out very well for both of us.
  #80  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
While I know there's no longer a functional problem w/the internal lock (IL) I cannot bring myself to buy a new S&W equipped that way. There's a pride of ownership that goes w/owning a fine revolver and if I'm going to spend that much, it will not be on a S&W w/the IL. How many others feel the same way?
If having a functioning lock that appears as little more than a well-machined pimple on the left-hand side RIGHT next to a large release button bothers you, well, I guess that's your loss. It does NOT make it any less of a fine revolver.

But leave the news ones alone - more for the rest of us who don't mind.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:56 PM
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I'm not a fan of the internal lock, for more than one reason...but I prefer frame mounted firing pin, and for out of the box smoothness you can't beat the MIM hammer/trigger (I've read many armorers that specialize in S&W wheel guns note that a fresh MIM set will be as smooth as forged with action job..and it gets better with use. My pre-lock 625-6 has an incredible trigger from the box). How many broken heat treated and case hardened MIM triggers or hammers have you seen?

I only point out the above, to say that we don't all "despise" all of the new features...and some actually like some of them better (although I've yet to read the post of the guy that prefers the IL...even if they don't mind it).

As far as bore laser sight; as noted in another reply, this only gives you an idea of how the cylinder and specific chamber is aligned with the frame. If the barrel was not centered with the cylinder/chamber...it would still shine the laser down the barrel and appear on target. However, they do make a "real" laser bore sighter that I have, that actually goes in the muzzle, not the less reliable bullet shaped variety. This type would give you a good idea of bore to "centered" sight alignment. It's a good investment, since it can be used from .22-.50 caliber and also to 12 gauge shotgun, and everything in between. Link below for example. I use it after installing new sights, and can even be used at 50 yards or so with a rifle to get scope nearly perfect before heading to the range. It's shortcoming is that you need about 3.5" to 4"barrel minimum. So not good for snubbies or sub compacts.



Lastly, why do you think hundreds of millions of guns made over the last couple hundred years have adjustable rear sights? Obviously not because the factories expect POI and POA to be exactly superimposed on each other on a new gun. If the barrel "looks" straight and not obviously overclocked, canted, etc., you should be able to get your sight (your point of aim) to correlate to the hole you are making down range (your point of impact). My 625-6 has the rear blade about 1/16" right of center to get me right in the center of target at 20 yards. Should I send it back to S&W for repair? Barrel appears perfectly straight to my naked eye. If you are only interested in guns with "perfect alignment", I'm afraid you will find a very limited selection.

One more lastly: I've been looking for certain pre-lock guns on gone-broker as they will never be found at any local dealer. Such as 5" 27/28/627 as example. I will pay at least $500 more than the very abundant PC627, 627Pro, for a gun that I have to buy sight unseen without checking things like trigger push off, cylinder gap clearance, timing, lockup, etc. I'm at the mercy of the seller and their description. I'm starting to think about going new instead on some, lock or no. I would most likely delete it, and plug it just out of spite. Getting very hard to justify paying the extra cash these days....I'm not made of money. I wonder if the hogue extended cylinder release would cover hilary's hole? Might be a good "fix"
  #82  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:11 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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I've purchased several new S&W revolvers over the last few years and have no real complaints. A couple even had the internal lock. I never had any actual functional problems with the lock, but it still bothered me nonetheless. Enough so that and I didn't keep those specific guns, but I'm lucky my preferred models are now offered without it. If they weren't, I'd just learn to live with it.
  #83  
Old 01-16-2018, 12:14 AM
DonD DonD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFlores View Post
I think more than "just a few" are lemons. S&W has a whole system for issuing return labels, and a team to work on them when they get back. Just a few are worthy of the price tag, the rest are junk with alignment and finish problems. I'm sick of sifting through junk.
That's simply BS, just another bogus "They don't make them like they used to!" thread that will simply never die.

Don't like new don't buy it. New are mostly made of superior metallurgy and to tighter tolerances, simple fact that you won't iike. MIM parts are often aerospace items and don't require time consuming hand fitting to get good results. And old won't get you great guns like the 500s and 460s.

Plenty of the old stuff returned to the factory but the internet shouts to the rooftop about every minor defect in the new guns, that didn't happen with the old stuff.

Just like "My old 1965 Chevy, great tough skin, tough as nails." Yeah, horrid brakes, tires, handling, miserable mileage, poor power, obscene emissions and guess what? Get in a crash with a new car and you, not the new car driver will die. Like that? Don

Last edited by DonD; 01-16-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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  #84  
Old 01-16-2018, 02:34 AM
therealsmithfan therealsmithfan is offline
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May be true in many respects DonD, I get your point. I don't have ANY probs with MIM trigger/hammer or frame mount firing pin (and see the advantages of both). But...there is more that just a little anecdotal evidence (along with many well done videos and write ups documenting issues) of poor quality control in later model smith wheel guns. These are not issues with the materials/methods, etc of otherwise fine guns. They are just sloppy work done by less than attentive craftsmen, and poor QC. Just like your 1965 chevy could have been a real lemon with problem after problem, and 5 trips to the dealer in the first 10K miles, while others you know had no probs with their's at all. I'm talking performance center guns with .010 gap between barrel and frame with light shining through, horrible chamber chamfers, crooked barrels, chipped up forcing cones, horrific barrel crowns, etc. With today's modern technology and ability to hold tolerances unheard of 50 years ago, these inconsistencies should be caught and fixed in final inspection stage prior to going into a box and out to the dealers, to become the problem of us, the consumer. We can be fans of S&W products, and appreciate the old and new...but we can also be honest of their shortcomings and expect quality consistent with the price tag.

Last edited by therealsmithfan; 01-16-2018 at 02:35 AM.
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