As the title says: Would you consider the .45Super in the realm of a "Magnum" cartridge? Buffalo Bore has their signature offering of a 255grain Hard Cast, truncated cone bullet rated @ 1100fps, (of which I enjoy and carry currently.) I was getting a hair over that velocity out of my 1911 "Loaded" model Springfield that I converted a little over 5 years ago. I've used it as our woods gun consistently for all hiking & kayaking/fishing excursions as the go-to sidearm. I've since converted the 1911 back to .45acp and now have a dedicated Smith 625 "JM" revolver and I'm liking it a lot. The moon clip reloads are so fast and I'm kicking myself for not going the revolver route years ago. Now I'm getting into reloading and after a lot of research for hand loads I'm seeing that the Super round can be loaded up safely a bit past what the Buffalo Bore loading currently is. I've found data for a 255 grain hard cast at 1175fps is more than doable and is the sweet spot I plan to load for. I'll start soft and slowly work up a load to the aforementioned 1150 to 1175fps loads methodically. My thinking is this is pretty much a Magnum load comparatively speaking to say an entry level .44mag load. So back to the initial question; in your opinion(s), would you consider the .45Super to be in the category to fit the criteria of a "Magnum" load?

Pushing 700 ft/lbs. If it is not a magnum then 357 mag is not a magnum.

Daniel

"Magnum" is a marketing label borrowed from the vintner industry where it has a more accurate definition. If you think it's magnum, then it is. I think there are some air guns carrying the tag.

I'm not sure why you would want to "magnumize" your 625 when you could go to a 629 and have a lot more versatility when loading hot. I get the moon clip issue but you could get the same effect with speed loaders. You will really need to reach to get to the velocities you are talking about in your 625 and will end up working right on the edge of what is safe.

In my mind, anything over 1100fps from a handgun is in magnum territory.

Post#3 is the definitive answer. Beyond that, a few things occur to me.

Often in the handgun game, "magnum" means "we took a known round, made it a little longer for safety and then we doubled the pressure."

Some rounds are called magnum and are hardly so (.32 H&R Magnum) and then the opposite is true also (.460 Rowland eclipses the .45 Super easily)

Another point that comes mind for me is that if we want to have a proper discussion of cartridges and their ability, Buffalo Bore should be left out of the conversation. Sure, they make good ammo and they typically deliver what they claim (good on them) but they also bend/break/hemorrhage SAAMI standards and definitions. To folks who love their ammo, this doesn't seem to matter but in my opinion-- it's obnoxious. I don't think it has to be, but Buffalo Bore doesn't make the effort.

I have to agree that the real genius in a 625 or a 25 is most definitely NOT taking the Rube Goldberg roadmap to heavy bullets at high velocity. Frankly... the concept seems a little ridiculous to me... but on the other hand, I've always loved the idea of gun owners and handloaders doing fun & enjoyable things they wanna do.

I certainly do a lot of exactly that myself!

I'll put a pressure label on the term "magnum".

The 45 Super is not SAAMI standardized so no official pressure level exists for it. Typically they seem to run in the 26K to 28K PSI range. Personally I'd consider anything over 30K PSI as entering magnum territory.

In case you didn't already know, Starline's 45 Auto Rims case are very strong & can easily handle 45 Super loads. They are all I use in my 325s & 625 revolvers when I shoot 45 Super in them. I save my Starline 45 Super brass for my 4586 & mod'ed 1911.

I only load my 45 Supers with 185gr JHPs (& 11.3grs/P-P) since the case is small. Heavy bullets don't seem appropriate in it to me.

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325TR


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325NG with 45 Super muzzle blast


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__________________
Waiting for the break of day

As already stated, Magnum is more of an advertising ploy

But No, I do not consider the 45 Super to be a Magnum and I have been a 45 Super shooter and handloader for several decades now.
In the 45 Auto Loader world I feel the 460 Roland and the 45 Winchester Magnum are the Magnum chamberings. I do not even consider 451 Detonics Magnum to be in traditional Magnum territory

It is what it is. A 255 gr bullet traveling at 1100fps is just that. If it is from a 45 colt case, a super case, a 460 Roland case or a 45 Winchester magnum case. Who cares what you call it. I call it a very effective combination.

I am a believer in this formula when it comes to handgun bullets. Frontal area, X velocity, X mass. I believe this because the velocities of hand gun rounds just are not that effected as much by velocity as rifle round, Thier effectiveness is very effected by frontal area. For a comparrison think of the old muzzle loader days when velocity was pretty much set by the black powder propellant. Wanted more power you went bigger, not smaller and faster. A 36 caliber was not near as effective as a 58, no matter the velocity.

I think of handgun bullets more like hammers. A little 4 oz tack hammer going 4 times as fast as a 4# beater. While neither is going to feel good I take a wack from the tack hammer. Yet
Tack hammer 1750gr and lets say 200fps. gives 155 ftlb
4# beater 28,000 and just 50 fps gets the same 155 ftlb
Which one would you want to smack your hand with????


Look this formula vs normal energy formula
45 bullet .452/2 X 3.14= .16 .16X1100X255= 44,880 but (685 ft lb)
44 bullet .429/2 X 3.14= .144 .144X1400X240= 48,384 but (1045 ft lb)

The conventional energy math show the 44 as the clear winner a factor of 1.5 I don't even start tp believe this and nobody should. The mass times velocity times frontal area method show the 44 with only a small 1.07 advantage. This I believe, if your getting a true 1400 fps out of your magnum.

I fail to believe that anything hit in the same spot by a 1100 fps 255 gr 455 bullet will be any better off than if hit exactly the same way with a 1400fps, 240 gr 44mag.

I agree with most of you. Not trying to make something out of the Super more than it is. The BB 255grain Hard Cast .45Super has became my favorite handgun load over the last few years. I like it so much that I'm trying to simply duplicate the load that I enjoy shooting the most at paper and carrying in the woods. I was just wondering, pure conjecture, as to what everyone thought whether it would be considered a Magnum round or not. Either way, shooting it out of the 625 is handgun bliss for me. Thanks for the replies!

I put another 130+ rounds of .45acp's thru her yesterday and 30 or so BB .45Super's. I started out with a couple of cylinder's of the BB Super; and they shot rather smooth and were extremely accurate, low flash. Then I went to 230 grain HST's... They almost felt like shooting .38Specials being followed by the Buffalo Bores. Blazer Brass, Blazer Aluminum, Hornady XTP's, and even the Wolff grouped very well, and was surprisingly clean burning. The Super's put out a lot of dust but that is just how non jacketed lead bullets behave. The moon clips have made reloads just as fast as my 1911 reloads yesterday... to the fact that other members commented multiple times on how fast I got the 625 back up loaded and on target again. And the trigger has really smoothed up in the 600 rounds or so shot thus far. So much that I didn't shoot one round in single action mode. I'm really glad I took a chance on this new Smith!

Groo here
Keith once said ,, once you put a hole through both sides
more speed just lets you do it farther away or make things easier to hit.
A .45 cal 250gr hard cast rnfp bullet will go through a horse at 100yds
and hit the Indian on the other side at 900 fps.
A 45 acp with the same 250gr bullet at the same speed will do the same thing.
That bullet at 1100 is similar to the Keith 44 spec load.
And he shot through a deer at around 600 yds.
What more do you need???

Agreed Groo01! I'm kinda new to revolvers and reloading so I'm just now learning/reading about the great revolver shooters and load developers like Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith. Those guys were absolutely instrumental at taking handgun loads to a new level of performance...

And I love the "Keith" style, flat nose (truncated cone), Hard Cast bullets. They perform really well on animals with thick pelts and thicker bones, amongst other things.

Buffalo Bore .45Supers are the sweet spot in regards to loads for what I want to do with this pistol. However, they are expensive and BB's shipping rate is a little ridiculous, to me. YMMV, but over $250 for 200 rounds is a little excessive. So, I'm separating all my BB .45 Super spent brass from spent.45acp... and also ordering new .45Super brass from Starline. I have a good supplier for both 255 and 260 grain Hard Cast TC bullets. Federal Large Pistol primers and 11.0 grains of VV N105 Powder will give me a good replicating load on par with the BB loading. It makes sense to stay close with the BB load because they are extremely accurate, recoil is very manageable, and there are zero signs of over pressure on the spent cases. No flattened primers or hard to eject/stuck cases; and the case heads and primer pockets on spent brass are just as pristine as when new and un-fired, etc... Lastly, I can duplicate this load at a little more than 1/3rd the cost that BB gets it to my door! I'm sure after I get up and running I'll be able to buy in mass bulk and bring the cost down even more.

Groo here
Check out Underwood.
Also, the 45 super brass is thicker to stop blowouts in an auto with
reduced case support.[think glock smillies and K-booms]
The revolver has no feed ramp and is "fully"supported.
Except for internal volume the 45 acp/45super can run at the same pressures in a revolver.
I would suggest handloading 45 super in 45auto rim cases.
This will allow you to shoot highlevel loads with out worry of getting them in an auto with miss marked brass.