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  #51  
Old 07-25-2017, 10:54 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
If these were actual problems, Smith & Wesson would have caught them at the mothership.
If you really believe that, you're not in Kansas anymore.

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  #52  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:00 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I have to be the luckiest guy on the forum, two new S&W revolvers, and both perfect.
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  #53  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:47 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
Because the hammer had a ton of flashing on the edges and was Razor sharp.

Because the crown protruded out past the muzzle

Because the grips didn't fit At all

Because there were apparent machine marks in the top strap.

Because the front sight was clearly canted to the right and pushed to the left to compensate.

There are a lot of things that can be wrong that don't jvokve accuracy or function. I didn't have to shoot it to realize it was finished very poorly. Unfortunately I didn't see the issue at the forcing cone until after I got it back
Oh, yeah, I remember now after looking at your previous thread regarding this gun.

You said, "I scanned it at the gun shop when it arrived, checked for a canted barrel, looked everything over, and took possession. Got home, and then i noticed the following on my brand new, un touched 627 Performance Center, which is about a $1000 revolver."

How you managed to miss those obvious imperfections if you "looked everything over" is simply beyond me.Especially the problem with the crown.
If I'd been thinking of buying that gun, and I looked at it in the shop, my hand wouldn't have come anywhere near my wallet. I'd have handed it back to the guy with a polite "No, thanks", and looked at another gun. You probably should have done the same thing.
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  #54  
Old 07-25-2017, 01:23 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I have to be the luckiest guy on the forum, two new S&W revolvers, and both perfect.
You and 10's of thousands of S&W revolver buyers each year.
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  #55  
Old 07-25-2017, 02:32 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
+1

These "issues" are at best very minor and can even be expected on a production revolver. I bet if you look hard enough you'll find problems with every gun at the dealer's shelves. I agree the OP is overreacting. If these were actual problems, Smith & Wesson would have caught them at the mothership.
I could not disagree with you more.... Over reacting?? Production gun?? Last time I checked S&W Performance Center revolvers are not production guns. That said, I read many posts of disappointed new owners that put up big money for what S&W touts as their factory custom firearms... It is for this very reason why I refuse to EVER buy a new S&W gun. I will not hesitate to snap up one from the days when they actually took pride in their product, but not today.. These days it is looking more like the "Mother ship" as you call it has crash landed. What the OP needs to do is pay an attorney a small fee to write a letter for him. After what he's gone through and the lack of complete follow through by S&W I think it warrants the implied risk of a law suit to grab their attention. At least after the letter I bet they take rectifying those shortcomings in his so called custom gun a little more seriously.
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  #56  
Old 07-25-2017, 03:16 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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SHOOT IT!!!!! if it doesn't shoot well send it back... enough already of magnifying what you think is imperfections... what do you think is going to happen if you shoot it. By the sounds of your posts, you are flat out looking for a reason to complain...
Excellent point. If the gun has above average accuracy, and shoots really tight groups...then don't screw with it.
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  #57  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:48 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Wow, lots of people coming down hard on the OP. As far as I can tell, he has not fired the revolver, nor would I with the problems he documents. Those who think it's only a leading problem or something that can be fixed by fired a couple of boxes through it, or suggest it can be fixed at home are apparently not reading the entire thread or looking closely at the pictures. In my opinion, S&W owes him a satisfactory product or a full refund.
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  #58  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:57 AM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Smith and Wesson agreed that it's not right.

Combine that with the fact that my front sight is still canted even though the barrel is not... I don't think I'm complaining about nothing. I guess our guys get paid slot more than me or are a lot more frivolous with your money. I don't care to shell out my money to get a gun with 6 different finish issues, return it, then find even more issues and still a front sight that isn't fixed.

I dropped a grand to get chipped China.
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:15 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Looking at both treads can't tell if it is bbl cant,front dovetail,orange insert or rear sight.Something or little of everything maybe is off.Force cone may not be a problem for a snub nose and distance they are shot.Shoot that gun and ask S&W to help fix your great or awful shooting gun on 2nd trip.Hope you are halfway to enjoying a fine gun.
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  #60  
Old 07-26-2017, 04:54 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
Smith and Wesson agreed that it's not right.

Combine that with the fact that my front sight is still canted even though the barrel is not... I don't think I'm complaining about nothing. I guess our guys get paid slot more than me or are a lot more frivolous with your money. I don't care to shell out my money to get a gun with 6 different finish issues, return it, then find even more issues and still a front sight that isn't fixed.

I dropped a grand to get chipped China.
There is nothing to justify to the forum. If you are unhappy keep sending it back until you are. There is a warranty for a reason. Hopefully you get a gun back to your liking the second time around.

I have the exact same pistol. the barrel crown isn't done properly on mine either but it shoots well so I left it as is.

the barrel on mine is ever so slightly under clocked, I mean less than a millimeter so I left that alone as well instead of sending it back.
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  #61  
Old 07-26-2017, 07:47 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Doc M... Go put 100 hot rounds thru this revolver. If after that it shoots like garbage then you've lost $35; you had the pleasure of shooting it & of proving everyone in this thread that's said: "shut up and go shoot it" wrong! Most importantly... you can still send it back no problem...













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Called. Discussed everything and was assured that if it comes back a Second time that they will DEFINITELY make sure they get all the issues fixed....was also told that the shop is closed for two weeks so yeah it's gonna be a wait.

I asked to speak to a supervisor because of my concern with issues being ignored and other issues not even being noticed. Left a voicemail so I'm not sure when or if I'll hear back.

Ill update.
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  #62  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:43 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Originally Posted by AzShooter View Post
Forget sending it back again, just have your local gunsmith cut a new forcing cone for you for about $15 - 20. It will be better and you will see an improvement right away.
It is not uncommon to recut the forcing cone leade to 11 degrees to reduce lead deposits from lead bullets. This is a quick, easy 10 minute job for a gunsmith.

Have the gunsmith check the barrel/cylinder gap also. I have a Ruger Vaquero that measured .003" for one side and .001" on the other. I like a .008" gap on my revolvers that I shoot mainly lead bullets through.
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  #63  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:13 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Default What would Carl Hellstrom think?

That forcing cone cutter was far beyond dull. It was so dull it had become a burnishing tool. It's almost like a swaged forcing cone, mashed into shape. And the high points on the barrel show variation on barrel inside diameter.
I ask myself, "What would Carl Hellstrom think?" A friend of mine once wrote him because his brand new Model 29 he'd bought off HH Harris had a screw missing, there were only 4 when there were supposed to be five! He also asked about certain practices on holding the hammer while pulling the trigger. You know that Carl Hellstrom, the President of the company took the time to dictate and sign a letter in detail answering his questions. I sold that letter to a John Connelly a now departed forum member.
In the 1953 or 54 Gun Digest it shows the Smith & Wesson factory line start to finish and you can see the operation where the barrels are being lapped. It's been a long downhill slide since those days.
Your gun should definitely be returned to the factory for by doing so, your making the cost of sending out the inferior more than that of making it right in the first place. In fact, it's your duty.
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  #64  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:19 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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"Your gun should definitely be returned to the factory for by doing so, your making the cost of sending out the inferior more than that of making it right in the first place. In fact, it's your duty."



Absolutely 1000% this!
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  #65  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:37 AM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I'm disgusted that S&W keeps sending guns like this to market, and even more disgusted that guns sent back to be made right come back looking like this. It's also sickening that whenever someone posts things like this, there are people claiming it's a "rare" occurrence...or that it just seems like it happens more in this day of the Internet. Think about this....that gun barrel had it's cone cut, and the one doing it saw the end result and felt it was a good job...that ALL get e a visual inspection. Then it went to another station in a parts tray, and got screwed onto a frame by another person who also saw that garbage in there and also was willing to accept it as a quality product. That's at least two people working there, with standards so low and who built many thousands of guns and parts per year, that they're ruining the name (if it can even be any more tarnished). Do you want people like that working on or building your gun? And to think of the prices that company asks. Ugh...
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:12 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Made in USA doesn't mean much anymore. All of the people that WERE making quality products are gone and have been replaced with the "throw away" generation. Personally I doubt I'll ever own a current SW (Ruger, Colt, Remington or anything else for that matter). Welcome to the new S&W.
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  #67  
Old 07-27-2017, 11:56 AM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I will still buy new S&W.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:57 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I don't know if my experience has been the rule or the exception? But I've purchased 2 new and 1 lightly used modern S&W revolvers over the last few years. All 3 of the guns have been beyond criticism in the factory fit & finish. My experience with a 60-10, 460V, and 627-5 V-Comp have all been chronicled here as I went thru doing the action tuning to get the weapons trigger pulls, etc to meet my personal desires. I was VERY impressed with my most recent Performance Center V-Comp. While going thru the checking of things like hammer & trigger endplay, cylinder fitting, etc;, all of the spec's were as good as I've ever seen in a gun.
I do know that it's most usually the case that you mainly hear from the unhappy customers, while the satisfied don't go out of their way to make the situation known.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I know what is possible and routinely done using modern CNC machineing, etc.
I can see no reason for the OP to accept what he received in the least. S&W should take a good look at a build that seems to have slipped thru the cracks, throw it on the "spoiled" scrap pile, and build him a new gun that both he and they can be proud of.
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  #69  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:23 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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I'm with the Dr., return it. No way in no universe would I accept that poor quality and defects.

That work is the definition of slapdash. Unacceptable at any speed.

His money wasn't defective, he paid full price, he should get full product.

People ask me why I only buy and own older S&W's...
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  #70  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:17 PM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Thanks for the responses and support. Some things I can live with, others I cannot, especially as mentioned on a gun I paid full price for, and I am going to rely upon to defend myself and my family, this isnt a safe queen, its gonna be shot and carried.

That being said, i'm over the hammer issues and not even bringing them up, 10 minutes with a file will smooth it out as i see fit.

Here's the other issue, aside from the crown.

The lower level is on the barrel, the upper level is on the front sight.
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

here it is demonstrated with a straight edge and the one level laying down as a straight edge.
Untitled by Andrew M, on Flickr

clearly the sight is leaning right in relation to the barrel.
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  #71  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:24 PM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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The GOOD news is that the other day my N frame VZ grips came in, and the second i put them on it to test fit, and then picked it up, i was INSTANTLY reminded why I want this gun and that it is going to be AWESOME once its fit and finished correctly.

I have the same round butt grips on my 65, and thats my favorite handgun to shoot. I perform very well with it. The moment I picked up this 627 with the RB VZ grips, i was "re-sold" so to speak. It fits my hand like a glove, and feels like an old friend. I dont feel that way about alot of guns, but i'm confident I've picked the right platform, just need to get it sorted out before its ready for me to use.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:31 PM
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Default Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC

Sorry to hear your troubles. Sounds like S&W will make it right.

I find it humorous that some members here think its acceptable as if the company is not culpable. Glad you stayed persistent and I'm not sure I would have picked up on the issues if I was buying one either.
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  #73  
Old 07-28-2017, 01:03 AM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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When I picked up the gun I checked for a canted barrel (not the sight) then checked over timing and lockup on all cylinders. I noticed the grips didn't fit well and didn't care, and noticed the hammer. Didn't really care there either.

When I got it home I noticed the sight and the marks in the frame and the crown. That's when I originally decided it needed to go back. So I did review it to an extent but I have never purchased a gun with so many issues and didn't know to look for all of it.

Anyway. I hope it gets made right
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  #74  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:14 AM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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The gun arrived to them last Friday, which was the last day of their 2 week shop closure for the employees to have a summer vacation.

I hadn't heard anything and inquired today as to the status. I was told that the barrel has been replaced and its shipping today.

1 week turn around is pretty good, but all i gotta say is this thing better be bloody perfect.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:06 PM
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Sounds great, Doc. I hope you get it back soon and it's issues are all corrected for you. My 627 Pro is one of my favorites to shoot.
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  #76  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:35 PM
Sal1950 Sal1950 is offline
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Originally Posted by Dr. Marneaus View Post
The gun arrived to them last Friday, which was the last day of their 2 week shop closure for the employees to have a summer vacation.

I hadn't heard anything and inquired today as to the status. I was told that the barrel has been replaced and its shipping today.

1 week turn around is pretty good, but all i gotta say is this thing better be bloody perfect.
Good luck Dr, I hope the weapon is everything you wanted it to be and more.
One quick suggestion at this point, if the piece doesn't now meet your expectations, just get rid of it and move on. All this stress isn't good for your health and can cause secondary issues in not only the physical but also your mental well being. Make a new move and find something the just pleases the hell out of you. I recently got a new 627-5 V-Comp and I just can't put it down, I'm sure I've put over 2k rounds down range in the last month, it just tickles me so much to play with it.
cent' anni
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  #77  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:52 PM
Dr. Marneaus Dr. Marneaus is online now
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
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Good luck Dr, I hope the weapon is everything you wanted it to be and more.
One quick suggestion at this point, if the piece doesn't now meet your expectations, just get rid of it and move on. All this stress isn't good for your health and can cause secondary issues in not only the physical but also your mental well being. Make a new move and find something the just pleases the hell out of you. I recently got a new 627-5 V-Comp and I just can't put it down, I'm sure I've put over 2k rounds down range in the last month, it just tickles me so much to play with it.
cent' anni

I hear ya.
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  #78  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:53 PM
Dennismn Dennismn is offline
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Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC Oh my goodness. Look at the forcing cone on my 627 PC  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 32
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Default That's not good

I'm a huge fan of S&W, own a little stock too but I am disappointed to see that kind of poor workmanship coming out of the performance center.

I am thinking that they have turned what used to be a premium service into a mini-mass production facility, hence the quality is dropping.

I have 3 performance center guns, and two more that I sent in for their Combat trigger work and refinishing.

They are all top-notch, except the last one, a model 66-6 3". That one came back with a fantastic polished trigger action - but was horribly unreliable - wasn't hitting the primers hard enough on 2 average out of six rounds.

I could have sent it back but I was annoyed enough that I decided to look it over myself. The firing pin retaining pin was missing...

Me thinks someone at the plant was hung over that day!

Anyway, popped in a retaining pin and the 3" 66 is a favorite shooter now.
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