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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 07-22-2017, 07:28 PM
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Default WTH? How could this be?

I bought a 640-3 about six months ago and shoot it every time I go. Today I noticed that I'm more accurate with this stubby than any other handgun I own. That includes my model 10, 36, Glock 19, and my Colt .45. All the same distance and shooting the same speed as far as I can tell. I thought snubbies were supposed to be super hard. I know with my 36 I'm terrible but for some reason I can shoot this thing straight.
Weird
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:32 PM
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I'd say that one is a keeper! Some guns fit people better than others...it's really that simple. You should see the faces on people punching targets at 50 feet when I pull out my pocket carry P3AT and clover leaf the shots. That's not suppose to happen! Sometimes it just does. Consider yourself lucky.

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Old 07-22-2017, 07:37 PM
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I was out shooting in the woods near my house this morning and nearly every pine cone out to 25 yards was sent flying with my Mod 60 2" - good handloads help along with hand filling grips such as the Diamond Pro on mine - sometimes we try too hard to be accurate with something we THINK we will shoot better - but not always
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:24 PM
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Yep, that's they way my 640 has been all along. Great purchase. And after shooting the 640, I shoot the same with the airweight. The reason I mention that is because some years back I got rid of an airweight because it wasn't easy to shoot nice groups with. The 640 is right!
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:52 PM
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It's all about what fits the shooter. If you're that good with a 640 I hope you've tried the 3953/54 guns. You can apply that mastery of the DAO trigger to a fine auto loader as well! I'm a revolver guy first but I hold my autos in high regard, too.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:03 PM
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Default I've practiced plenty with snubs....

...but I"ve never been to hot with them. I put Pachmehr grips on my model 38 and my groups really tightened up from that one change. It was actually respectable. So, though the grips add some bulk, they sure make you hold and shooting better.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:41 AM
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I've experienced similar results with my 640 Pro. I occasionally even ring the gong out to 100 yards; still doesn't beat my K38 though.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleestak View Post
I bought a 640-3 about six months ago and shoot it every time I go. Today I noticed that I'm more accurate with this stubby than any other handgun I own. That includes my model 10, 36, Glock 19, and my Colt .45. All the same distance and shooting the same speed as far as I can tell. I thought snubbies were supposed to be super hard. I know with my 36 I'm terrible but for some reason I can shoot this thing straight.
Weird
Me too and I have a theory as to why. Some say a long barrel and sight radius leads to easier sight alignment and better accuracy. This may very well be true, BUT my world that long barrel accentuates the error in my shooting. A 1 degree error in windage with a 2" barrel just compounds as the barrel gets longer. Does this make any sense?
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:53 AM
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"A 1 degree error in windage with a 2" barrel just compounds as the barrel gets longer. Does this make any sense?"

I don't think so. The error would still be 1 degree.
My own take on the sight radius influence is that it only matters if I can hold and shoot as study as I can see the sight-target alignment. Otherwise, sight radius is not the limiting factor. Using a bench rest would change the situation. Now, the sight radius becomes the limiting factor. For me!
An example is when I see a red Laser dot "dancing" around all over the paper on someone else's lane. The fact that the dot might be spot on the point of impact will not help the shooter get tight groups.

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Old 07-23-2017, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickd View Post
Me too and I have a theory as to why. Some say a long barrel and sight radius leads to easier sight alignment and better accuracy. This may very well be true, BUT my world that long barrel accentuates the error in my shooting. A 1 degree error in windage with a 2" barrel just compounds as the barrel gets longer. Does this make any sense?
Couple bits.

One--some people find shorter barrels easier to shoot for reasons related to eyesight. Trying to maintain the correct focus is a lot easier with less-than-perfect vision. In other words, long sight radii are literally harder to shoot.

Two--longer sight alignments have the same effect that a red dot or scope can have. Namely, you're able to see your wobble. When you can see your wobble, it leads you in the direction of all sorts of terrible trigger habits (chicken finger, jerking, forcing shots, etc). You don't miss so much because you aim poorly or have miserable sight alignment, most people miss because of poor trigger control.

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Originally Posted by riverrat38
My own take on the sight radius influence is that it only matters if I can hold and shoot as study as I can see the sight-target alignment. Otherwise, sight radius is not the limiting factor. Using a bench rest would change the situation. Now, the sight radius becomes the limiting factor. For me!
An example is when I see a red Laser dot "dancing" around all over the paper on someone else's lane. The fact that the dot might be spot on the point of impact will not help the shooter get tight groups.
The problem is that pretty much everyone that shoots a handgun doesn't actually realize how their sights work.

Folks typically think about sights as operating in three dimensions. That is to say, they show your point of aim at a certain range--you have an X, Y, and Z axis (up and down, left and right, and distance*).

But there's a fourth dimension: time. The sights only show you where you are aiming now. Unfortunately, where you are aiming now is irrelevant.

What this leads them to do is a lot of silly stuff like trying to snatch a shot, or over-hold, or shoot on their second settle (if you wait for the sights to settle before you start squeezing, you're "settling" for your second-best hold).

So frankly, forget your hold. It honestly doesn't matter--most good shooters aren't good because they have very steady holds, they just shoot better than their hold would appear to allow. Aim with the trigger. What you want to do is have your best uninterrupted trigger pull coincide with the sights settling onto the point of aim. When you do it right, and manage to keep your eyes open (most people literally shoot blind--they blink as the shot breaks), what you'll see is the sights drifting into the 10-ring, as if by magic, right when the hammer drops.

The hard part, and what the real trick is, is reliably performing this act of faith.

*And a lot of people don't really get that. POI intersects POA at two distances since the bullet's trajectory follows an arc and the sights correspond to a line. And a gun that shoots low at 7 yards will be spot-on at 50 feet since the sights are on top of the bore, which is somewhat counter-intuitive.
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Old 07-23-2017, 04:04 AM
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I have a 640 with the 1 7/8" barrel. It shoots great. I shoot all my revolvers in DA. My 640's trigger is outstanding.
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Old 07-23-2017, 05:42 AM
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"Breakaway, If there is a category in the Gunnisse Book of World Records for that you'd own it"

I own two other small KelTecs and cannot come even close to the ability of the one that shoots spot on. I can't explain it..but I would not take any amount of money for that pistol. I've had friends shoot it, and it is just a typical "scatter gun" at most anything over 20 feet..but put it in my hands and I can shoot it like a model 41. Luck of the gun gods!
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Old 07-23-2017, 06:04 AM
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I have M60 that I can shoot a lot better than some other guns that have better sights and a smoother D.A. trigger pull. I have never understood why. Like yours, I have the Magna type grips on it. It is fun to take to the range and easily outshoot most of the guys with full size autoloading pistols. I am an older shooter (age 64) so eyesight and coordination are clearly not at their zenith.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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.... easily outshoot most of the guys with full size autoloading pistols....
Perhaps the subconscious mind allows us to concentrate and perform better knowing there is a limit of only five shots. Some of the best shooting and successful deer hunting I ever did was with a single shot muzzle loader.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:54 PM
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My 640-1 is very accurate, I shot high score with it at my last ccw qualification. Those uncle mikes grips are great.

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Old 07-23-2017, 01:18 PM
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The M640-1 has the best DA trigger of any revolver I own. Despite my general distaste for rubber grips, the ones Smith put on this gun suit me. It lets me shoot full house 158 grain .357 loads with uncanny precision. It has become the J-frame that gets carried.
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:52 PM
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Maybe it's just the 640 is a great shooting gun! I shoot mine well also!
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Old 07-23-2017, 01:59 PM
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a lot things go into how well each person shoots with a gun and each person is different. I had a M66 that I could shoot very well double action but single action not so well and a M36 I shot well single action. Now give me a Glock and you better stand behind me because I can't hit nothing with it and I have owned two of them. However at the end of the day I always shoot very well with a 1911. Learn what you are good with and carry it
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Old 07-23-2017, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhump1961 View Post
It's all about what fits the shooter. If you're that good with a 640 I hope you've tried the 3953/54 guns. You can apply that mastery of the DAO trigger to a fine auto loader as well! I'm a revolver guy first but I hold my autos in high regard, too.
I also believe in the combo of a 3953 and a 640/642!
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Old 07-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleestak View Post
I bought a 640-3 about six months ago and shoot it every time I go. Today I noticed that I'm more accurate with this stubby than any other handgun I own. That includes my model 10, 36, Glock 19, and my Colt .45. All the same distance and shooting the same speed as far as I can tell. I thought snubbies were supposed to be super hard. I know with my 36 I'm terrible but for some reason I can shoot this thing straight.
Weird
You are probably like me and find it easier to focus on three different planes when two of them are very close together. My best iron sight pistol shooting is done with a 3" 629-1. It is only bested by my 5" 629 wearing a FFIII, which completely eliminates a third plane. Some notable gun writers like Keith have mentioned this subject. He spoke of it in the context of old shooters and weaker eyesight being able to focus more easily on three planes when the sights are closer together.
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