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07-26-2017, 10:20 AM
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What happened to all the "lightweights"?
Back in the 90's and early 2000's S&W offered lots of lightweight revolvers other than snubbies - examples right off the top of my head being the 337-1 with 3" barrel, 296 .44 Special, 386 .357 Mountain Lite, 360 SC .357 with 3" barrel.
Now, such a gun is almost impossible to find. Perhaps they didn't sell well or something?
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07-26-2017, 10:33 AM
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I am a devoted fan of virtually all S&W products. I got one of the 296 titanium .44 Specials in a trade. It is virtually unshootable to me, it is so profoundly uncomfortable. I am generally not recoil shy, and I have tried multiple loads. But frankly I can't stand the gun and I hate to say that about a S&W product.
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07-26-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
I am a devoted fan of virtually all S&W products. I got one of the 296 titanium .44 Specials in a trade. It is virtually unshootable to me, it is so profoundly uncomfortable. I am generally not recoil shy, and I have tried multiple loads. But frankly I can't stand the gun and I hate to say that about a S&W product.
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^^^^what he said! I have the ultra-lightweight 342 and 337 J-snubs in .38Spl. And yes, as 6518 John says, they are virtually unshootable, even with WCs and LRN service loads. To this J-hound, the Ti cylinder guns recoil worse than comparable steel-cylinder models. The M&P 340 is tolerable, the PD variant is a handful. Perhaps this is the reason?
Kaaskop49
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07-26-2017, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis
Back in the 90's and early 2000's S&W offered lots of lightweight revolvers other than snubbies - examples right off the top of my head being the 337-1 with 3" barrel, 296 .44 Special, 386 .357 Mountain Lite, 360 SC .357 with 3" barrel.
Now, such a gun is almost impossible to find. Perhaps they didn't sell well or something?
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I wonder if maybe these were just ahead of their time. Today there are so many more concealed carriers there's potentially a bigger market for lightweight revolvers.
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07-26-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversnake
I wonder if maybe these were just ahead of their time. Today there are so many more concealed carriers there's potentially a bigger market for lightweight revolvers.
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Could be. Let's hope they start bringing more lightweights back.
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07-26-2017, 11:56 AM
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I picked up a lightly used(LNIB) 325 PD a couple of months a go. These 45 ACP, scandium frame, titanium cylinder, 2.75 barrel guns were made for couple of years in the early 2000's. This is my first S&W with a lock. For some reason I was drawn to it and once I picked it up I could tell I had to have it. The recoil is pretty harsh with standard loads, but with light handloads I can shoot it pretty well.
I disliked the front and rear sights from the beginning. I replaced the rear V- notch sight with a standard blade and have also bought a Partridge style front sight that I need to install. I know the notion of a target version 2.75" light weight 45 ACP revolver is even more absurd than the original configuration, but hey it's what I want.
The trigger on the gun is really smooth and everything else is really well put together. I can't wait to get the new sight installed and try it out at 25 yards.
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07-26-2017, 12:53 PM
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In the current market S&W is meeting and exceeding all of their revolver production goals. There's no real urgent incentive to make runs of small volume exotic alloy frames and cylinders. Basically, Smith is sold out, max'ed out, backlogged, fat, and happy. If sales return to "normal" (what ever that is) perhaps will see more of the scandium and titanium lites and ultra lites back in the production mix again.
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07-26-2017, 01:13 PM
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Sales were not there. Air-lites in 22 LR and 38 special still sell well.
I think recoil is a big factor. Even 45 acp in a lightweight can be harsh....I don't even want to think of shooting a 44 magnum.
Gary
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07-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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One of my carry guns is a 342 with the titanium cylinder and I love it. Of course its not a fun range gun. I have old school factory wood magnas on it, so that makes it even less gun to shoot, but it is definitely manageable to shoot and shoot accurately. In fact I qualified with it today with no issues. That being said, I am not recoil sensitive. I think the high price of the super light guns compared to the little difference in weight savings over the standard 642 is what hurts sales. I think people have a hard time justifying the extra expense.
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07-26-2017, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qballwill
Of course its not a fun range gun.
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And therein lies the problem. I'm not as recoil proof as I used to be, but I can still fire my 500 4" without issues. But rule number one for a carry gun is practice, practice, practice and rule number two is see rule number one. Firing a lightweight gun, especially with magnums is just too unpleasant for me, so I returned to my tried, true and trusty 1911 for carry. Sorry revolver fans.
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07-26-2017, 03:27 PM
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I would love to see a modern version of the M-12 thats' +P rated. A snubby M64 or M10 is a bit heavy for daily carry buy a M-12 would be ideal.
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07-26-2017, 03:30 PM
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Superlites are for shootin and fightin, not recreation. As for sales, they sold every one they made. They are still highly hunted.
If they are of a mind to come out with something Lite, put me down for a 3 inch round butt model 12.
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07-26-2017, 03:47 PM
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My 242ti shoots like a peach and carries like one too. I've been practicing and using the Winchester Ranger Bonded 130gn +p and have not had any issues in managing the recoil. Since adding the stainless cylinder, its even easier to shoot at the range. Don't see too many of these in the wild unfortunately, only made for one year. Once premiered at the Shot Show in 1999, this revolver marked the first "centennial" built on an L frame. I think if this model was re-released, without an internal lock and had a shrouded hammer like the 49 j frames, it would sell very well.
Just my $.02
Last edited by SVT28; 07-26-2017 at 03:49 PM.
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07-26-2017, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Sales were not there. Air-lites in 22 LR and 38 special still sell well.
I think recoil is a big factor. Even 45 acp in a lightweight can be harsh....I don't even want to think of shooting a 44 magnum.
Gary
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A very few folks find that shooting these lightweight guns is not a big deal but for most folks practicing with them is too painful. The pain causes poor shooting and flinching. Massad Ayoob said they are designed to be shot a little and carried a lot but if you already know the pain you will receive when you pull the trigger your mind's memory will likely cause you to fail to shoot or to shoot poorly under stress. Who needs that?
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07-26-2017, 07:24 PM
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Just like me, they got older, started gaining weight, and are now a little too heavy. Some are grossly obese, and could use elective surgical correction. It happens when you get older.
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07-26-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZretired
I would love to see a modern version of the M-12 thats' +P rated. A snubby M64 or M10 is a bit heavy for daily carry buy a M-12 would be ideal.
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Yes. With a 3" barrel, no ILS, and DAO with a spurless hammer. I would definitely buy one and possibly two.
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07-26-2017, 08:03 PM
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I have a 13.5 oz 431PD in 32 H&R Magnum and the recoil is not a problem.
Likewise, my M37 3" is quite shoot-able with standard pressure 38 Special loads. It's not rated for +P anyway. It weighs about 15 oz.
I also have an Airweight M242 7 shot Centennial like the picture shown previously. Mine has a Titanium cylinder, but weighs about 19 oz -- the same as a steel M36 and quite shoot-able also.
M431PD
M37
Last edited by Cal44; 07-26-2017 at 08:21 PM.
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07-27-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qballwill
One of my carry guns is a 342 with the titanium cylinder and I love it. Of course its not a fun range gun. I have old school factory wood magnas on it, so that makes it even less gun to shoot, but it is definitely manageable to shoot and shoot accurately. In fact I qualified with it today with no issues. That being said, I am not recoil sensitive. I think the high price of the super light guns compared to the little difference in weight savings over the standard 642 is what hurts sales. I think people have a hard time justifying the extra expense.
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It's only a 38 special , even with +P loads it's not that punishing....357 magnum actually hurts ( OK I'm a bit of a weenie ) I don't enjoy pain .
My EDC is a model 637 air-lite in 38 special and is not a punisher and I shoot it every range trip .
It's only the big bore light weights that are no longer carried .
Gary
Last edited by gwpercle; 07-27-2017 at 11:57 AM.
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07-29-2017, 05:12 PM
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I have a S&W 632 Airweight in 32 H&R Magnum with a 3" barrel. It is LNIB, and I have never shot it. Most owners of a 32 H&R Magnum pistol say that they are pleasant to shoot. I shoot semi-autos when I shoot. I just liked the way this one looks.
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07-29-2017, 10:17 PM
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I have a ruger police service six in 357 magnum with a 2 3/4" barrel. With stout magnum loads the revolver would turn in my hand. I ended up drawing my hand on a piece of paper and sending it to herret grips to get custom grips made to my hand it's much better shooting it now.
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07-29-2017, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee's Landing Billy
Superlites are for shootin and fightin, not recreation. As for sales, they sold every one they made. They are still highly hunted.
If they are of a mind to come out with something Lite, put me down for a 3 inch round butt model 12.
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That's basically what they had with the NightGuard 315, except a 2.5" barrel. I would buy one today except I never see one for sale.
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07-30-2017, 02:11 PM
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I wanted a 329 Night Guard (27 oz.) for a very long time and when I finally got one and shot it was an unpleasant experience. Currently my light carry S&W's are a J-frame 640-1 (23 oz.) and a K-frame 13-2 with 3" barrel (34 oz.). I would like to sample a lightweight .38+P K-frame. What's out there in the aftermarket?
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07-30-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gila Bender
I wanted a 329 Night Guard (27 oz.) for a very long time and when I finally got one and shot it was an unpleasant experience. Currently my light carry S&W's are a J-frame 640-1 (23 oz.) and a K-frame 13-2 with 3" barrel (34 oz.). I would like to sample a lightweight .38+P K-frame. What's out there in the aftermarket?
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There's the 337. I have the 337-1 with 3" barrel and target sights. With Pachmayr Compac grips on it it is not unpleasant to shoot at all.
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07-30-2017, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
I am a devoted fan of virtually all S&W products. I got one of the 296 titanium .44 Specials in a trade. It is virtually unshootable to me, it is so profoundly uncomfortable. I am generally not recoil shy, and I have tried multiple loads. But frankly I can't stand the gun and I hate to say that about a S&W product.
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*
I know some people really take the position, and some others, as I do, take the opposite. When loaded with the 200 grain Blazer Gold Dot HP, I find it much less obnoxious to shoot than any duty load in a .38 snubby or my 940.
As for a version of the 242 with the M49 style shrouded hammer, that takes away the best single advantage of the Centennials. The completely enclosed hammer makes them a star for pocket carry, as that keep almost all of the crud out of the lockwork. I had a 649 for some time; it was excremental and a bear to keep clean when pocket carried.
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07-31-2017, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Sales were not there. Air-lites in 22 LR and 38 special still sell well.
I think recoil is a big factor. Even 45 acp in a lightweight can be harsh....I don't even want to think of shooting a 44 magnum.
Gary
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IMO, this is exactly why the "Lightweights" never did sell well. I'm not exactly recoil sensitive. In fact, I like shooting a pistol with a little bit of @$$ behind it! But shoot a couple of cylinders of full house .38Specials or Heaven forbid .357's out of a Air-Light and I'm done with that little pistol for the day... How are you ever supposed to get good with a pistol you hate putting 12 rounds a range session thru?
That said it's nothing for me to go thru 100 rounds in a range session of Fiocchi or S&B .38Specials in my M-36 "J" frame; and even a couple cylinder's of my carry load after I'm a bit fatigued, BB 158grain LSWCHP's. I do this almost every time I hit the range because I feel the need to practice with something I carry a lot of the time. No way am I doing that with an Air-Lite... and I've got big meaty hands. YMMV... To those that can and do practice like that with an Air-Lite then thats awesome and you get the best of both worlds with a light carry piece!
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