Hi guys. I was just shooting yesterday off of the shooting bench. I sighted my .460 in at 20 yards. I was getting good groups. Then I backed the shooting bench up to 30 yards. Never hit the target!! The shoots where that high!! Then I moved the shooting bench in to 15 yards, it then was hitting 2-3" low!! So 20 yards dead on, 15 yards 2-3" low, and 25-30 3-5" high. Should I set the shooting bench up at 50 yards, zero it, and then move in to 30-40 yards and see where it hits? Also, have any of you guys went with the .250" front sight, Vs the stock .208" front sight? I have the .460 8.38" btw. Wondering if the slightly higher front sight would fix this problem. Also I will add, .45 colts shoot well, a long with .454 rounds. What are your thoughts on this problem? Thanks guys

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

So are you having the elevation problem with the .45LC's and .454 Casull's too... or just with the .460 Magnum loads? I would stick to one load at a time to eliminate these sorts of variables and questions first...

It shoots fine with .45 colt rounds. Really have not tried the .454 rounds much. But I have been using the .460 loads a lot. And that is what I have found out so far in shooting them. I am using a stable shooting bench also.
Do you have any thoughts on this?

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Put the taller front sight in. I had to do the same with my 500mag as it was printing high at longer distances.

Did that fix you problem? So far it just seems to shoot high with the .460 rounds, and keeps going higher the father the yardage. I was hoping Ruggy would chime in. Thanks 9mmsubgun!! I did do some searching and other people with .460s and .500s are going with the .250 front sight, vs keeping the stock height.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

What weight bullet/ammo are you shooting in the 460? 200gr Hornady FTX ?

.

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

The bullet starts dropping the moment it leaves the barrel and doesn't stop until it hits the ground. Were your bullets heavier than the ones you are used to shooting. I put some extra heavy bullets in my 9mm and from 10 yards away I shot OVER the target.

__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I've seen similar results but I thought it was because of the scope being higher than the bore. If I remember correctly a .270 Winchester sighted in at 17 yards will hit something like 2 inches high at 100. I know this is no help because you are using iron sights.

The first thought that comes to mind for me is Recoil Management. As in HOW are you managing the revolver during recoil.

My first longer barreled revolver was a 6 1/2 inch model 610 and I learned rather quickly that longer barrels magnify any inconsistencies in how the handgun is controlled while the bullet is transiting the barrel. In one experiment I allowed the barrel to rise with almost no restraint and compared that to shooting with the muzzle rise restrained. BTW, both methods were done while shooting off a sandbag. At 25 yards the result was an eye opener, the unrestrained shots had a POI 12 INCHES higher than the shots where muzzle rise was restrained.

It took a lot of practice but I finally did manage to get that 610 to group at 1 1/2 inch at 25 yards off a rest but even after all that practice and many years since I still shoot shorter barreled handguns better than the longer barrels. Of course knowing this also means I don't spend a lot of time shooting with longer barrels so that really isn't a surprise. However my point is that what you are observing may simply be a result of how well you manage the muzzle rise while the bullet is transiting the barrel.

Yep, in this case I believe it's all about the recoil. I'll bet if you shoot some lighter weight bullets you'll print lower.

It is all about ballistics.

This is a ballistic program for rifle, but the principle is the same.

Ballistikprogram - Norma

__________________
Jamie wants big boom

I am using Winchester 230gr copper bullets with a lead core. Nickel star line brass, with 40 grs of H 110 powder ( minimum requirement is 39grs). They are handloads. I bought 200 of the Winchester bullets to put in the .460 cases for just practice rounds. I will be using 250 gr barnes bullets in the .460 cases this year for deer hunting, if I can find out why the bullets are going high.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

I am using 230 gr bullets, I am going to be using 250 gr barnes bullet for deer hunting this year if I can fix this problem.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

I use a firm grip, that is for sure, lol. I do notice when I fire, the barrel really do not rise very much, mostly just pushes back into my hand. The compensator helps that out. It is weird though, once I get it sighted in for a certain yardage, it gets wicked good groups. All the shots are right there, then you back up 5 yards, and the shots go 3-4" higher. I really do not know what to say about this problem.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

The bullets where 230 grs I was using. Other people that own the .460s said to stay away from the 200gr hornady rounds, way to fast, Forcing cone erosion, top strap cutting. Plus I do not like the way those bullet hold up, and shoot, lol. I love the barnes 250gr bullets. I will be using those for this deer hunting if I can get this problem fixed with the shots going high.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Do you guys have any more suggestions on what I could try different? Or on what the problem could be? Then next time I shoot I am going to take pictures of how it is shooting, and post it up on here. Thank you guys for all the help!! I will keep you all up dated if I fix the problem, or find it, haha.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Choose the ONE load you intend to use for hunting, and zero the gun for the distance you intend to hunt at.

You should have a 100-yard package there, and zeroing it at 20 yards won't get you out to where you need to be at longer shots.

If you hunt in dense terrain where max shots will be 50 yards, then zero that ONE load at that distance & learn where you need to hold at 20 & 75.

Your caliber is not a particularly flat shooter, expect an arc.
Denis

Regardless of what load you are shooting, a difference of only 5-10 yards should not change POI 5". I wonder if you are resting the gun differently at the different ranges, due to shooting angle. Do you wear glasses? Only asking because I find myself sometimes looking over my glasses when shooting handgun from a bench and that really changes POI. Sometimes the angle of the shot influences whether or not I accidentally look over them at the sights. Your .460 is a fairly flat shooter under 150 yards with bullets of 300 gr or less. I actually sight my .460 at 75 yards with 300 grainers going about 1800 fps. It hits about 3/4 of a inch high @ 50 and about 1 1/2 inches low @ 100.

Sending you a PM...

I would be shooting at a max of 50 yards. So that is where I am going to be shooting from to get it zeroed. I really bought this hand gun for brush hunting, and close range shots.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

I am using a shooting bench with a V to hold your rifle/ handgun. And in my case, the .460. I am lightly resting the barrel on it, to make it nice a steady for the shots. I do not wear glasses, my eye sight is 20/20. The only time I would wear them is sun glasses, but I really only use those for shooting rimfire rounds, as to keep sparks out of my eyes. For me, I will only be firing to a max yardage of 50 yards, so that is where I am going to make it dead on, and I am hoping it will not keep going low, and lower the closer I get to the target.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

This is actually correct. It doesn't matter what sighting system you use.

If I sight my revolver in at 10 yards (why God why), it's likely going to hit a bit high at 17 and 25 yards. If the cartridge and load I'm using has a flat-enough trajectory, it's going to continue to shoot high at 50.

This is because the sights have to be angled down sharply in order for the point of aim (line, really) to intersect with the trajectory of the bullet at such a short range.

The fact that .45 Colt ammunition doesn't exhibit the same "shooting high further out" effect is proof that that's what's happening with the much higher-velocity .460 S&W Magnum ammunition.

Yes Sir it did.

Are the bullets you use intended for reloading to magnum pressures?

With a quick Google search all I could find of Winchester 230gr copper bullets are for reloading .45 ACP, as far as I can see..?

__________________
S&W J/K/L/N/X

Not sure, I mostly bought them for practice like I am doing, and to put in .45 colt rounds for light shooting/ practice/ hunting small game. I am not using these loads for hunting when the are in the .460 case, just for practice. And if it keeps shooting the same, then I will forget about even firing these in the .460 cases. I really do not want to use my 250 gr barnes bullets to practice with, as it is 20 dollars for 20 bullets!! Going to shoot some more today, I will let you guys know what I find out.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Got it. I am going to be sighting it in today, this time at 50 yards, see what happens. Thanks to all you guys that helped me out. I will be posting the results, when I have them, lol

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Just make sure you shoot enough of those expensive bullets to know where they go if you plan to hunt with them this fall. Different bullets will change your POI.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

In my mind, shooting bullets intented for lower .45 ACP pressures at the significantly higher pressures of .460 mag, just might have something to do with the issue you are experiencing.

I would suggest you try a box of factory .460 ammo, or load some rounds with the 250 gr Barnes' you have.

__________________
S&W J/K/L/N/X

So here is what we just found out when shooting today. As you know, my brother has a .460 NRA edition ( same barrel length as my .460). Ok here is the run down, lol. His was dead on at 20 yards, so we moved the shooting bench back to 50 yards. He shot 2 more rounds, at 50 yards, it was perfectly level, just hitting a little over to the left. Ok, so my gun was dead on at about 20-25 yards also, getting pretty good groups. So I shot from the same shooting bench, at the same yardage (about 50 yards). So i took my time, waited for the sights to be perfect, and fired. Went up to it, it is a foot and a half high at 50 yards!!! So i make 5 clicks down, and 2 clicks over to the left (it was a little to the right the shot). So i fired again, never hit the paper!! My brother then shoots 2 rounds using my gun (thinking it was how I was shooting, grip, exc). He never hit the paper also!! So I said to my self this is ridiculous, and moved the shooting bench into 30 yards, give or take. I then fire one more round, and it is now 1-2 feet low!! Did not know 5 clicks to bring the shots down would bring it down that much!!! Btw with shooting today, we both used the same loads in our handguns today. Same powder, primers, brass, bullets, grains of powder even. And we both shot the hand guns the same way, and rested the barrels on the U of the shooting bench. I am going to be contacting S&W and probably sending it in to them. We have 2 of the same .460s, same barrel length, and ammo we are shooting, same yardage, shooting bench, and the same style of the way we shoot, and one is dead on at 20 yards, and can shoot at 50 yards and the shots not move at all!! And the other one(mine) 20 yards dead on, 50 yards 1-1 1/2 feet high. Then make 5 clicks down, move the bench to 30 yards, and now it is hitting 1-2 feet low!! This is what we have found out so far

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

That may be true, but we just got done shooting from the same yardage, same .460s, my brother has one, and I have one and they have the same barrel length. His was dead on at 20 yards, so moved the bench to 50. Fired 2 shots, dead on, just a little the left, no height change. So my get is dead on at 20-25 yards, so i fire at 50 yards, it was a foot to a foot and a half high!! So 5 clicks to bring the rear sight down. My brother then shoots my hand gun. Never hit the target. So i then said i have to get this thing on the paper, and moved the bench in to 30 yards. So i fire one more shot, taking my time, it is 1-2 feet low now!! We are using the same shooting bench, same shooting style, same brass, same 230gr bullets, same primmers, same powder, and grains of powder. So that is the difference right there. His gun never changed when firing from 20-50 yards, shots stayed the same for height. Going to contact S&W and send my gun into them.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Sounds like a bad barrel.

Does your gun have a normal standard S&W sight? Or, has someone installed some other sight that may have different click values?

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Yes, different rear sight nights are available but I caution, the 460 probably shoots a heavy grain bullet and does not shoot flat but describes a ballistic curve in flight, more so than a lighter bullet. Try lighter grains first. That is totally normal in the world of rifle shooting. The bullet hits dead center at close range, then rises and comes down again. I would just sight the rear sight in at the distance you want to shoot at and then hold a bit higher or lower when varying off that. What is it today, everyone wants to send guns to SW. I have a 25-2 that shoots high at 15 yards with the best bullet I found for it. I would never dream about sending that gun anywhere as long as it is consistent and I can predict where that shoots. I may change for a higher rear blade but most likely not even that.

As the loads shoot fine in the other 460, they are probably ok.
At least you've eliminated one possible source...

Hope you'll get it sorted soon.

__________________
S&W J/K/L/N/X

THIS IS THE BEST RESPONSE THAT I HAVE READ........

PICK A LOAD, AND THEN ZERO IT AT A COMMON RANGE FOR YOUR TYPE OF HUNTING. SOME KENTUCKY WINDAGE MAY BE REQUIRED TO ADJUST FOR VARIATIONS IN DISTANCE......

KEEP IT SIMPLE, THE LESS VARIABLES THAT YOU NEED TO CONTROL FOR, THE BETTER........

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

There's no reason why there should be that much difference between your gun, and your brother's. Not when all other variables have been eliminated, as it seems has been done. If it were a couple inches, I could almost support the Kentucky windage solution, but this goes way beyond that. There's something not right, and there's NO reason you should have to approximate your shots. Totally unacceptable! I'd start by sending it back to Smith&Wesson.

What bullets is your brother using? 230gr are not intended for this cartridge. I have to thing your charge of H110 has to play havoc on a bullet intended for 45ACP.
I stick with Hornady's 240 & 300 gr XTP MAG. It shoots great.
I agree with others - zero at your intended distance and hold over/under as needed.

That is what other people have said also, that the 230 gr bullets are not meant for this gun. My brother is shooting, same bullets, same every thing out of this 8.38" barrel, and his is dead on at 20 yards, moves the bench to 50 yards, and dead on there? I do not think the bullets are an issue. I am also having other problems with this gun, yesterday when I was firing .45 colt, it did not even fire 3 rounds. Had to spin the cylinder back, and try to refire them. The seconded time they did fire, so it is not just the shots going high, but also light primmer strikes. It is a complete redo on this gun, lol

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Thank you!! I will be doing that, and yes we have tried every thing. Same yardage, same ammo, same bench rest, same style the way we shoot. My brother even shot mine, 2 shoots off the bench, never hit the paper at 50 yards!! I will also add, I had a recurring problem pop up yesterday. I went to fire 3 .45 colt rounds, they never fired the first time. Took the second try to fire them. Light light primmer strikes, so two issues on this gun. It will be getting sent back. Come Monday I will be giving them a call, telling them about it.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

I bought this gun, brand new at Cabela's. It is all stock. Has the stock .208" front fiber optic sight on it. And the rear sights are stock.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

There are also light primmer strikes going on also, when I fire .45 colt rounds. It would not even fire 3 .45 colt rounds in a row!! Took the second time through to fire them. There is enough problems with this gun, that it is going to be sent into them. I think just knowing my brothers same .460 as mine, shoots dead on at 20 yards, and the bullet hits the same at 50 yards is enough for me to send this in. But I also have the light primmer strikes going on. And yes the primmers are seated fully in the brass, lol

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

I think it's a barrel problem. Years ago when my father and I got into muzzleloader hunting we had the same problem. We would sight in his rifle at 50 yards, with excellent groups. Move back to 100 yards and it was way off but still had great groups. Come to find out the barrel was not bored straight. After it was replaced we never had any problems, I don't remember how many deer he killed that.

Yeah, that is what I am thinking also. Sounds like what mine is doing with .460 rounds. Can't wait to see what the S&W factory finds out when I send it in.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Just called S&W today. They said send it in. Turn around time is about 3 weeks. I told them every thing about what is going on with it. Can't wait to see what they find out about it. With the shots going high, and it not firing the .45 colt rounds. I will keep you guys posted.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Two items come to mind.

First, in regards to your light strikes the first thing I would check is if the strain screw is tightened all the way down. If it isn't that is the cause for your light strikes.

As for the variation in the POI I am starting to suspect that you may have a loose barrel. The 460 and 500 Magnums normally feature 2 piece tensioned barrel and due to the high level of vibration/recoil in these revolvers they could have the barrels "shoot loose". Actually this would be due to a combination of an improperly tightened barrel and recoil because there are many of the 460 and 500 Magnums that don't have the barrel assembly shoot loose. Cure for this is a trip back to the factory for a warranty repair because S&W will not release the special tools required to tighten the barrel.

BTW, I have a model 620 that features a 2 piece tensioned barrel and can state with certainty it's capable of 7/8 inch groups at 50 yards because that was my personal best after practicing twice a week for 6 weeks solid. Point is that tensioned barrels are generally more accurate than any other type of barrel. Except when the start to get loose, then you can see some really flakey behavior.

I have already checked the strain screw for the Main spring, it is tight. I read some where, that the older x-frames, not sure if it is just .460s or .500s, but some had lighter main springs put in accidently. Again, not sure. Either way, I am working on typing up a copy of my issues with this gun, so they will know what to look for. After I am done with that, time to ship it out. I will update when I get new news. Might be 3-4 weeks before that. Scooter I to am looking forward what they find out about the barrel, and how it shoots. There is no way it can be right, the way it is now, haha. Talk to you guys later, when I get new news.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Sir, welcome to the world of revolver shooting! Here are a few rules to follow!
#1 ALWAYS shoot the same load.
#2 NEVER let someone else sight in your gun
#3 Never compare your gun to another gun/shooter
Your problem of the bullet hitting higher at a longer distance, when shooting at the distances you are, is a function of bullet speed, bullet weight, barrel length, and RECOIL! When the gun is fired the action of recoil pushes the gun back and the shooter resisting this action forces the barrel up in an arc until the bullet leaves the barrel causing the bullet to fly in an arc above the line of sight. The amount of rise in the arc of the barrel is determined by many things. Barrel length, muzzle brake, strength of the shooter,bullet weight, etc! At the yardage you are shooting you are still in the positive side of the bullet arc until you reach the POI at a yardage far out(?)! I don't shoot the .460 but have shot a 29 44mag shilouette with 240gr bullets going 2400FPS for many years, and have shot a lot of deer!
On your next range trip try this "sighting in process"! Set a target out at the max range you expect to hunt at(should be 100yds), shooting the same load you will use for hunting, sight the gun in to hit POA. Now move the target in closer to the bench and see where you hit. I bet you will be surprised at how much bullet rise you now have at the closer range. Also make a mental note, this is how much you will hold under at that distance when hunting. Now, just for fun, set your target out to 200yds and see where you hit.
jcelect

After practice @35 yds indoors my gun is pretty well sighted for the 50m

Chicken.. 100meter pigs l move up 1/3 the body. Coming to the 150meter

Turkey l am 3/4 up the body...Hardest to hit silhouette..BTW. Rams @ 200

I set my sights just over his back... More important than sight settings

Is breath control..Next comes trigger time.. Lots of dry firing helps

I have already shot 100 rds of the .460 ammo, it is not shooting the way I like it. And yes I am going to compare it to my brothers same model, same barrel length .460 as mine. And me and him shoot the same ammo, same bullets, same brass, same powder, same powder grain. Every thing is the same, why is one gun hitting 1 foot and a half high, and the other one is dead on at 20 yards, and then when shooting at 50 yards is dead on also? Right there is enough to send it in to S&W. Again, I thought it was my self making the gun hit high, so my brother (the guy that shoots his .460 at 20 yards, and 50 yards, and there is no difference in bullet height) shot mine just to see if it was me. He never hit the target. Again, I called S&W and I told them every thing about it, how it is, how my brothers gun is, and they agreed with me, some thing is not right at all with my gun. And they also said send it in, which I am working on right now. Another thing I am not happy about with my .460 is it is not firing .45 colt rounds at times. Right there is reason enough to send it in, in my opinion. Every one agrees I should be sending it in. Some people say I should hold high if it is hitting low, or hold low if it is hitting high. I have spent a lot of money on this, and I want it to shoot the same 20 yards to 50 yards. Is that to much to ask? lol. And a lot of people are saying it is a bad barrel, or was screwed in wrong, milled wrong, or just plain defective.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!

Nice!! I only am going to be shooting at 50 yards max. I am hunting in the Maine brush, lol. Close range shots. Love the surprise, sneaking up, stalking, the close range, all of it, haha
But ya, there really is not long shots in Maine, only cut downs, which I would need a scope. And I really do not want to scope the .460. Down the road I want to see how I do at shooting at a 100 yards with the .460. After I get this barrel thing fixed, and primmer issues fixed.

__________________
Pure power and speed!!