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Old 08-10-2017, 03:33 PM
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After about 750 rounds through my new 617 - i was pretty sure that it was broken in. It was still printing about 3" high at 15 yards with the rear sight bottomed out. So, before I started filing away on the rear sight, I figured I would call customer service at S&W to see if they had a fix on the situation.

They do not have any suggestions, but I did have an interesting conversation with the guy on the phone. He took the position for a while that I had to raise the rear sight in order to bring the point of impact down. I asked him to repeat that and he did. We actually had a bit of a debate about the subject for a few minutes. Then I asked him to think about that for a bit and he offered to send me a shipping label for the tech guys to look at the gun. I circled back to the question of what direction to move the rear sight in order to lower the POI and he finally acknowledged that he had gotten that backwards.

He was either having a really bad day or he is not much of a gun guy.

I can't really get a good measurement on the rear sight blade with my calipers, but the best I can get shows it at .125, though it could be .135 too. Don't really want to pull the blade out for a close measure.

I also am not thrilled about putting a new front sight on it, because I kind of like the one that is there.

I am still a bit hesitant about sending it back to the factory to have this issue looked at. Not everyone grips a gun the same way that I do, so I don't know how they will be able to confirm my results.

Does anyone know if they put it into a machine rest in this type of circumstance?

Last edited by catadjuster; 08-10-2017 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Add Photo
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:50 PM
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By the way, I have tried a number of different ammo brands and they all go a bit high.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:52 PM
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You are correct , the rear sight moves in the direction you want the group to go...
Personally I prefer a tall rear sight with a tall 'window'.
When I purchased my 617, it had a rather short rear sight. And I change both sights to get the sight combination I preferred.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:28 PM
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I knew I was right - I was just astonished that the customer service guy at Smith and Wesson didn't know it cold.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:43 PM
lscocoa lscocoa is offline
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I was going to say .146 on the rear which is what my m-17's have , but I went to the safe and measured my 617-6 4" and the rear looks about .126 and the front is the hi viz replacement made for the 617 and that is .165 . Does your front sight measure similarly ? You could go taller in front . I found Midway USA had a pretty fair selection of replacement rear sight blades,screws and nuts last time looked .
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by catadjuster View Post
I knew I was right - I was just astonished that the customer service guy at Smith and Wesson didn't know it cold.
Yep,, That and some of the quality that I've seen and read about
coming out of the S&W factory ,, sure makes a person wonder
who they have working there ??
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:26 AM
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I was going to say .146 on the rear which is what my m-17's have , but I went to the safe and measured my 617-6 4" and the rear looks about .126 and the front is the hi viz replacement made for the 617 and that is .165 . Does your front sight measure similarly ? You could go taller in front . I found Midway USA had a pretty fair selection of replacement rear sight blades,screws and nuts last time looked .
I just measured the front sight and it is .165 like yours.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:46 AM
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I recently picked up a 617 and took it out for the first time last Sunday. And, I struggled with moving the barrel at the end of the DA trigger pull...usually tipping the barrel up and to the left. I didn't adjust the sights at all. I just worked on my grip and trigger control and I improved but I still have much room for improvement. I would still likely be 4-6 inches high/left at 15 yards shooting without a rest. The problem is me, not the 617. I'll work on sight adjustment once I get consistent groups.

I say all this to encourage you to do everything you can to eliminate yourself as the problem before sending it back or changing the sights. Shoot from a rest, have someone else shoot it, etc. Also, dry firing using yellow wall anchors as snap caps can help. Pull the trigger the same way you'd do at the range, just focus on that front sight to see how much it is moving. It doesn't have to move much for it to be off at 15 yards. Maybe you're popping up the barrel a bit. Fiddle with your grip and trigger finger placement until the barrel doesn't move (or hardly moves) all the way through the trigger pull. You can put a dab of whiteout on the front sight to make it easier to see any sight movements. Then, hit the range and see how you do.

Of course, please disregard my suggestions if you've already gone through the process of eliminating the human element.

Have fun and be safe!
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:50 AM
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Of course, please disregard my suggestions if you've already gone through the process of eliminating the human element.

Have fun and be safe!
I probably should have mentioned that my groups were from a rest. I shoot double action quite a bit over the last couple of years. I figured that if I could shoot double action competently, it would make shooting any auto loader that much more accurate for me. Then I became addicted to DA revolver shooting - in the last 14 months (according to my logs) I have sent a bit over 18,500 rounds down range double action.

I found the 617-6 DA trigger to be pretty good - I was expecting it to be a lot heavier given that it is set up for a rimfire. I haven't measured the weight of pull, but it is quite smooth.

Anyway, I keep working at getting better and have a DA revolver set up in my office with snap caps so that I can dry-fire pretty much any time I don't have someone in the office with me. Pretty hard to explain in the middle of a meeting ya know?
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:55 PM
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Typically the K-22 and variants use a .106" or .126" rear sight slide. If you are shooting that high you probably have a higher one in your sight. Changing from a .126 to a .106 (-.020) would lower POI about 2 1/4" at 25 yards.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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Put a red dot on it and forget about iron sights. It's fun to shoot and more accurate.

Just my opinion.

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Old 08-13-2017, 09:08 AM
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Typically the K-22 and variants use a .106" or .126" rear sight slide. If you are shooting that high you probably have a higher one in your sight. Changing from a .126 to a .106 (-.020) would lower POI about 2 1/4" at 25 yards.
As best I can measure, I have the .126 rear sight on mine. I will probably be trying to find a front sight blade that is a bit taller to resolve this issue.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:09 AM
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Put a red dot on it and forget about iron sights. It's fun to shoot and more accurate.

Just my opinion.

I will probably go to a reflex sight at some point on my revolvers - I have older eyes now and find focusing on the front sight to be much more difficult than it used to be. However, I also want to use open sights for as long as possible.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:33 AM
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My 617 I purchased two years ago has the same issue with the sights, shoots 4" high at 25 yards with the rear sight bottomed out. I talked to S&W and they were going to send a shipping label but after a week without it coming in I just installed a red dot. I will eventually replace the front sight blade as the square edge is very hard on the inside of a holster. Anyway, a front sight change will make it look more like my 686.
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:21 PM
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He was either having a really bad day or he is not much of a gun guy.
Don't be too surprised. Folks from that part of the country aren't nearly as acclimated to handguns as compared to Pensacola or just about anywhere else besides California. Ya need a permit just to own a handgun. I'm sure it's even harder now. I grew up in western Massachusetts not very far from S&W. I can assure you the gun culture and more specifically the handgun culture is vastly different than in Pensacola. BTW I've lived in Pensacola. In fact, I bought my very first new handgun in Pensacola.

I would venture an educated guess that the only time many of the folks living in that part of the country have even seen a handgun was on the hip of a LEO or on TV or movies. This is the hiring pool that S&W has to choose from. It's much the same for Colt, just 35 miles away. Although in another state, the attitude and laws are similar. I find it ironic that so many firearms companies are centered in states that are so hostile to firearms. Kinda like biting the hand that feeds ya!

Now before you folks from that part of the country get all up in arms about my statements above please realize that I've lived it and seen it. I mean no disrespect. I just find it odd that the first real battles of the American Revolution at Lexington & Concord were battles of gun control. The redcoats were after arms held in reserve and more importantly the powder needed for the militias arms.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:01 PM
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a.

I would venture an educated guess that the only time many of the folks living in that part of the country have even seen a handgun was on the hip of a LEO or on TV or movies. This is the hiring pool that S&W has to choose from. It's much the same for Colt, just 35 miles away. Although in another state, the attitude and laws are similar. I find it ironic that so many firearms companies are centered in states that are so hostile to firearms. Kinda like biting the hand that feeds ya!
.
Maybe things will change when S&W gets their new plant up and running in Mid-Mo, no shortage of gun people around here.
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