Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present
o

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:15 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default How far is too far to adjust sights?

I took my PC500S&W Mag x 3.5” to the range tonight to see how well it would run.

Good news is it went bang every time I pulled the trigger.

Bad news is how long it took to get sighted in. Adjustments on the rear sight are nearly at the end of travel. The blade is full right, and I don’t know how much further it can go up before unthreading the adjustment screw. For elevation, the rear is raised significantly - note the gap between the frame and the base of the sight. You can see the T-nut in the frame is exposed. Don’t know how much further it can go.

From dozens of pistols I’ve been involved with, I’ve never had to make adjustments to this extent for POI = POA

Is this worthy of a return to the mother ship for an evaluation / repair, or is this the new norm for [what’s becoming legendary S&W quality]?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2DE6A8A6-F85F-462D-8C87-776099F9CAAB.jpg (23.0 KB, 274 views)

Last edited by Flipside; 10-13-2017 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Added elevation details
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:26 PM
Warren Sear's Avatar
Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, Minnesota
Posts: 5,141
Likes: 10,957
Liked 10,857 Times in 3,275 Posts
Default

I wouldn't be happy with that. First I would shoot it again (another day, ammo, sunlight, etc.) and see if it shoots more to where it should. If it is no better, then I would sent it back to S&W.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:35 PM
Peak53's Avatar
Peak53 Peak53 is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Tincup, CO
Posts: 3,679
Likes: 6,263
Liked 7,435 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

How about a couple of good pics showing the alignment of the barrel/front sight with the frame. Sounds like a classic overclocked barrel. SW may/may not fix depending on if the barrel rotation is "in spec."

Second problem (somewhat tongue in cheek): Revolvers don't "run." They make a loud noise when you pull the trigger. Sounds like you have that issue under control.
__________________
Some collect art; I shoot it!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:45 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak53 View Post
How about a couple of good pics showing the alignment of the barrel/front sight with the frame. Sounds like a classic overclocked barrel. SW may/may not fix depending on if the barrel rotation is "in spec."

Second problem (somewhat tongue in cheek): Revolvers don't "run." They make a loud noise when you pull the trigger. Sounds like you have that issue under control.
Front sight and barrel shroud are just fine; centered, square and clocked as they should be.

Given the 500 has a 2 piece barrel, I’m suspicious that’s where the problem lies since everything else looks to be spot on.

Runs... yeah, I grew up on autos. Maturity has brought an appreciation for the finer things in life
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:59 PM
Peak53's Avatar
Peak53 Peak53 is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Tincup, CO
Posts: 3,679
Likes: 6,263
Liked 7,435 Times in 2,276 Posts
Default

^^^ Sorry, forgot about the two piece barrel. I would be suspicious also.
__________________
Some collect art; I shoot it!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:16 AM
bigggbbruce's Avatar
bigggbbruce bigggbbruce is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where this month?
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 264
Liked 4,215 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

First you can't unscrew the windage screw it will just stop. If you choose to force it further you can shear it off.

Second I have had guns that I started off the same way. Better hold and I found them back to relative center.

Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:19 AM
Joe4d Joe4d is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 273
Likes: 42
Liked 165 Times in 94 Posts
Default

I think smith is using too tall a front sight on everything. Had to swap the front on my 686 for a shorter one. I mean it would zero, just had to raise rear higher than I wanted. Mine was that simple spring loaded dovetail type. So simple swap. How does the crown look ? Mine looked like doo doo and had to go back to be redone. Shot fine afterwards.
Only other issue is are you sandbagging/ resting the gun ?
Low and left is classic flinching/anticipation sign.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:47 AM
BLUEDOT37's Avatar
BLUEDOT37 BLUEDOT37 is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 6,460
Likes: 5,857
Liked 9,264 Times in 3,478 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipside View Post
I took my PC500S&W Mag x 3.5” to the range tonight...
Is that the new model (#11623) that just came out?

What weight bullet/ammo were you shooting & at what distance?

How tall is the front sight?

That rear blade looks tall. My snubby 460PC & 500ES had short rear blades from the factory. (Both have been changed to adjust the POI.) How tall is it?

Those actually have a (3) piece barrel & the shrouds are indexed to the frame so the likelyhood of a canted barrel should be slim.

.
__________________
Waiting for the break of day
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:58 AM
ameridaddy ameridaddy is online now
US Veteran
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: central Virginia
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 13,144
Liked 6,891 Times in 2,087 Posts
Default

My 25-9 came from Smith with the front blade forged/cast .007" off center, not canted, but visibly off center on the front ramp. I could see the difference in the width of the flats on either side of the blade. My 27-2 came with a canted barrel. I didn't notice it until my rear sight went way right to get a zero. A front blade a few thou off at 6" - 10" from the rear leaf makes a big difference at 900" (25 yds.)
Make some careful measurements to satisfy yourself, and if in doubt about quality, send it back to Smith. You paid a bunch of money and deserve value for it.

Last edited by ameridaddy; 10-13-2017 at 01:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:09 AM
Pisgah Pisgah is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,439
Likes: 37
Liked 5,413 Times in 1,756 Posts
Default

Just a suggestion, but -- this reminds me of the time a friend bought a really nice used 29-2 4". It wore a set of magna grips and a Tyler T-grip -- my favorite set-up for an N-frame -- but he said before he even shot it that it felt too small for his hands.

The first time he shot it his shots were so far left that, like you, he had to move the rear sight to the extreme right to get his shots centered. He called me upset about it, and the next day we went out shooting together. I took a turn shooting the gun -- only to find that for me, with the sights adjusted far-right, it shot far to the right. I suggested a more hand-filling grip, he bought a set of Pachmayr Presentations, and suddenly his problem went away.

It may need to go back to S&W, but I'd have someone else try it first.
__________________
Pisgah
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:13 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
First you can't unscrew the windage screw it will just stop. If you choose to force it further you can shear it off.

Second I have had guns that I started off the same way. Better hold and I found them back to relative center.

Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
Thanks for the info on the screw... not one to force anything.

This is my 3rd 500, and grip is what I was testing as well.

Two other shooters were getting the same results, though some had better groups
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:17 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
I think smith is using too tall a front sight on everything. Had to swap the front on my 686 for a shorter one. I mean it would zero, just had to raise rear higher than I wanted. Mine was that simple spring loaded dovetail type. So simple swap. How does the crown look ? Mine looked like doo doo and had to go back to be redone. Shot fine afterwards.
Only other issue is are you sandbagging/ resting the gun ?
Low and left is classic flinching/anticipation sign.
Crown looks fine; no complaints there.

We all used a Weaver stance - no bags.

All the shooter’s have decades of experience. We all had similar results, but different groups.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:23 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Is that the new model (#11623) that just came out?

What weight bullet/ammo were you shooting & at what distance?

How tall is the front sight?

That rear blade looks tall. My snubby 460PC & 500ES had short rear blades from the factory. (Both have been changed to adjust the POI.) How tall is it?

Those actually have a (3) piece barrel & the shrouds are indexed to the frame so the likelyhood of a canted barrel should be slim.

.
Yep, it is the 11623.

325 grain Federal Fusion and some 400 (or was it 440?) grain Buffalo Bore. All of it was at 15’

Have to grab a caliper from work to check out the dimensions. I didn’t change anything; it’s all factory.

By 3 piece, are you counting the nut as one piece?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:28 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
Just a suggestion, but -- this reminds me of the time a friend bought a really nice used 29-2 4". It wore a set of magna grips and a Tyler T-grip -- my favorite set-up for an N-frame -- but he said before he even shot it that it felt too small for his hands.

The first time he shot it his shots were so far left that, like you, he had to move the rear sight to the extreme right to get his shots centered. He called me upset about it, and the next day we went out shooting together. I took a turn shooting the gun -- only to find that for me, with the sights adjusted far-right, it shot far to the right. I suggested a more hand-filling grip, he bought a set of Pachmayr Presentations, and suddenly his problem went away.

It may need to go back to S&W, but I'd have someone else try it first.
Great suggestion on grips!

I commissioned Herret’s to make a set of custom grips for my other 500’s. Those indeed fill my hand - perfectly. This pistol is intended to be more of a camping companion, and I’d like to use the stock Hogues.

Others shot the pistol, and we all had the same experiences. Some with tighter groups than others.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:21 AM
gnystrom gnystrom is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 1,833
Likes: 1,062
Liked 2,109 Times in 860 Posts
Default

I thing Pisgah #10 has made good comments. Have someone else shoot the gun. If everything comes back as it is currently, call the factory. I would never be able to shoot a gun with the rear sights cranked over like yours are.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:32 AM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
SWCA Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,907
Likes: 10,039
Liked 10,047 Times in 4,758 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
....Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
Nominated for Best Wisecrack of the Day.

I have no real experience with 500s so can't comment and be helpful but had to recognize the humorist.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:41 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Nominated for Best Wisecrack of the Day.

I have no real experience with 500s so can't comment and be helpful but had to recognize the humorist.
I second the motion!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:25 PM
BLUEDOT37's Avatar
BLUEDOT37 BLUEDOT37 is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 6,460
Likes: 5,857
Liked 9,264 Times in 3,478 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipside View Post
By 3 piece, are you counting the nut as one piece?
Correct. Shroud, barrel & retaining nut.

.

460XVR 3-1/2" PC

(-03a)

.

327TRR8

(-08c)

.
.

The two-piece lack the nut so a special tool is inserted into the muzzle/rifling to tighten the barrel against the shroud.

.

500ES - front quarter view

(-02b)

.

69 Combat Magnum

(-012a)

.
__________________
Waiting for the break of day
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:52 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 179
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,106 Posts
Default

Sounds like someone is trying to correct for shooting Low & Left. I suspect that this a problem with the Shooter and not the fault of S&W. As for why, about 98% of the time Low and Left is caused by a right handed shooter pulling the gun left during the trigger stroke while pushing off at the same time.

My advice is that Flipside slow down, concentrate and achieving complete relaxation when the trigger breaks and except that his 500 Magnum has a level of recoil that would induce almost any shooter to flinch a bit. BTW, this is coming from someone who has had to compensate for a tendency to flinch with center fire handguns since about 1974. So I know very well from lots of experience that slowing down and concentrating on achieving a relaxed state at the trigger break actually does work.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:28 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
Sounds like someone is trying to correct for shooting Low & Left. I suspect that this a problem with the Shooter and not the fault of S&W. As for why, about 98% of the time Low and Left is caused by a right handed shooter pulling the gun left during the trigger stroke while pushing off at the same time.

My advice is that Flipside slow down, concentrate and achieving complete relaxation when the trigger breaks and except that his 500 Magnum has a level of recoil that would induce almost any shooter to flinch a bit. BTW, this is coming from someone who has had to compensate for a tendency to flinch with center fire handguns since about 1974. So I know very well from lots of experience that slowing down and concentrating on achieving a relaxed state at the trigger break actually does work.
Great advice and suggestions from all the posters here!

I’m going to mount a set of my Herret’s from a 8-3/8” on this 3-1/3” shorty, rest it in bags, and see what happens.

I’ll also see what it does if a south-paw runs a few rounds down the pipe

Last edited by Flipside; 10-14-2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Corrected typo
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 10-14-2017, 12:57 PM
SLT223's Avatar
SLT223 SLT223 is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,304
Likes: 2,719
Liked 5,046 Times in 1,439 Posts
Default

Since those shrouded barrels really can’t be canted, it is more likely your grip and or trigger pull...possible an anticipatory flinch. I would experiment with different grip positioning with your hand(s) and different finger positions on the trigger and see what you get.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:52 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLT223 View Post
Since those shrouded barrels really can’t be canted, it is more likely your grip and or trigger pull...possible an anticipatory flinch. I would experiment with different grip positioning with your hand(s) and different finger positions on the trigger and see what you get.
Update...

Went back to the range today. Tried different stocks, different holds, bags, different Shooter’s and different ammo.

With the rear sight adjusted almost full up, and almost full right, POI ~ POA.

It’s going back to S&W.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:52 AM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 550
Liked 1,427 Times in 666 Posts
Default

Try loading 4 live rounds and a fired case, close your eyes, give the cylinder a whirl and close it. Now you have a blank in an unknown position. Great way to discover a flinch.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-12-2017, 06:45 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 139
Likes: 86
Liked 85 Times in 32 Posts
Default New pistol solves the problem

Rather than send the pistol back to S&W, I contacted the distributor (Davidson's) that supplied the pistol.

They have an incredible customer service department and policy, and replaced the pistol with a new one at no cost to me.

The new pistol hits the bulls-eye right out of the box with no adjustments to the sights what-so-ever.

If there's any downside to this resolution, I doubt I'll ever know what the problem was...

The matte silver pistol in the attachment is the 500PC #11623 with a lil' J-Frame (340) for comparison.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SW 500 340.jpg (65.1 KB, 28 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:54 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
Member
How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,106
Likes: 14,444
Liked 3,763 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thumbs up

I had trouble adjusting sights on revolvers when I first got into handgunning. It all worked itself out as I gradually learned how to shoot. This is not to say all S&Ws come from the factory perfect, but the shooter is mostly the cause of "problems".

The X-frame guns are not easy to shoot well and the blast and recoil make it harder.

Glad your new revolver is working out.
__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BG 380 - anyone adjust rear sights? bg1111 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 3 07-19-2015 08:15 AM
Anyone adjust sights on Shield? davemercer Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 1 06-24-2014 11:10 PM
Adjust sights or skill? beekeeper S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 18 10-15-2012 09:58 AM
How To Adjust Sights on 15-22? Bedrockk Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 18 07-11-2012 03:19 PM
when to adjust sights? spirit4earth Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 7 03-28-2012 09:20 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)