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Old 10-12-2017, 10:15 PM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
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Default How far is too far to adjust sights?

I took my PC500S&W Mag x 3.5” to the range tonight to see how well it would run.

Good news is it went bang every time I pulled the trigger.

Bad news is how long it took to get sighted in. Adjustments on the rear sight are nearly at the end of travel. The blade is full right, and I don’t know how much further it can go up before unthreading the adjustment screw. For elevation, the rear is raised significantly - note the gap between the frame and the base of the sight. You can see the T-nut in the frame is exposed. Don’t know how much further it can go.

From dozens of pistols I’ve been involved with, I’ve never had to make adjustments to this extent for POI = POA

Is this worthy of a return to the mother ship for an evaluation / repair, or is this the new norm for [what’s becoming legendary S&W quality]?
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Last edited by Flipside; 10-13-2017 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Added elevation details
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:26 PM
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I wouldn't be happy with that. First I would shoot it again (another day, ammo, sunlight, etc.) and see if it shoots more to where it should. If it is no better, then I would sent it back to S&W.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:35 PM
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How about a couple of good pics showing the alignment of the barrel/front sight with the frame. Sounds like a classic overclocked barrel. SW may/may not fix depending on if the barrel rotation is "in spec."

Second problem (somewhat tongue in cheek): Revolvers don't "run." They make a loud noise when you pull the trigger. Sounds like you have that issue under control.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:45 PM
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How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak53 View Post
How about a couple of good pics showing the alignment of the barrel/front sight with the frame. Sounds like a classic overclocked barrel. SW may/may not fix depending on if the barrel rotation is "in spec."

Second problem (somewhat tongue in cheek): Revolvers don't "run." They make a loud noise when you pull the trigger. Sounds like you have that issue under control.
Front sight and barrel shroud are just fine; centered, square and clocked as they should be.

Given the 500 has a 2 piece barrel, Iím suspicious thatís where the problem lies since everything else looks to be spot on.

Runs... yeah, I grew up on autos. Maturity has brought an appreciation for the finer things in life
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:59 PM
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^^^ Sorry, forgot about the two piece barrel. I would be suspicious also.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:16 AM
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First you can't unscrew the windage screw it will just stop. If you choose to force it further you can shear it off.

Second I have had guns that I started off the same way. Better hold and I found them back to relative center.

Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:19 AM
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I think smith is using too tall a front sight on everything. Had to swap the front on my 686 for a shorter one. I mean it would zero, just had to raise rear higher than I wanted. Mine was that simple spring loaded dovetail type. So simple swap. How does the crown look ? Mine looked like doo doo and had to go back to be redone. Shot fine afterwards.
Only other issue is are you sandbagging/ resting the gun ?
Low and left is classic flinching/anticipation sign.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipside View Post
I took my PC500S&W Mag x 3.5Ē to the range tonight...
Is that the new model (#11623) that just came out?

What weight bullet/ammo were you shooting & at what distance?

How tall is the front sight?

That rear blade looks tall. My snubby 460PC & 500ES had short rear blades from the factory. (Both have been changed to adjust the POI.) How tall is it?

Those actually have a (3) piece barrel & the shrouds are indexed to the frame so the likelyhood of a canted barrel should be slim.

.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:58 AM
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My 25-9 came from Smith with the front blade forged/cast .007" off center, not canted, but visibly off center on the front ramp. I could see the difference in the width of the flats on either side of the blade. My 27-2 came with a canted barrel. I didn't notice it until my rear sight went way right to get a zero. A front blade a few thou off at 6" - 10" from the rear leaf makes a big difference at 900" (25 yds.)
Make some careful measurements to satisfy yourself, and if in doubt about quality, send it back to Smith. You paid a bunch of money and deserve value for it.

Last edited by ameridaddy; 10-13-2017 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:09 AM
Pisgah Pisgah is online now
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Just a suggestion, but -- this reminds me of the time a friend bought a really nice used 29-2 4". It wore a set of magna grips and a Tyler T-grip -- my favorite set-up for an N-frame -- but he said before he even shot it that it felt too small for his hands.

The first time he shot it his shots were so far left that, like you, he had to move the rear sight to the extreme right to get his shots centered. He called me upset about it, and the next day we went out shooting together. I took a turn shooting the gun -- only to find that for me, with the sights adjusted far-right, it shot far to the right. I suggested a more hand-filling grip, he bought a set of Pachmayr Presentations, and suddenly his problem went away.

It may need to go back to S&W, but I'd have someone else try it first.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:13 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
First you can't unscrew the windage screw it will just stop. If you choose to force it further you can shear it off.

Second I have had guns that I started off the same way. Better hold and I found them back to relative center.

Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
Thanks for the info on the screw... not one to force anything.

This is my 3rd 500, and grip is what I was testing as well.

Two other shooters were getting the same results, though some had better groups
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:17 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights? How far is too far to adjust sights?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe4d View Post
I think smith is using too tall a front sight on everything. Had to swap the front on my 686 for a shorter one. I mean it would zero, just had to raise rear higher than I wanted. Mine was that simple spring loaded dovetail type. So simple swap. How does the crown look ? Mine looked like doo doo and had to go back to be redone. Shot fine afterwards.
Only other issue is are you sandbagging/ resting the gun ?
Low and left is classic flinching/anticipation sign.
Crown looks fine; no complaints there.

We all used a Weaver stance - no bags.

All the shooterís have decades of experience. We all had similar results, but different groups.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:23 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Is that the new model (#11623) that just came out?

What weight bullet/ammo were you shooting & at what distance?

How tall is the front sight?

That rear blade looks tall. My snubby 460PC & 500ES had short rear blades from the factory. (Both have been changed to adjust the POI.) How tall is it?

Those actually have a (3) piece barrel & the shrouds are indexed to the frame so the likelyhood of a canted barrel should be slim.

.
Yep, it is the 11623.

325 grain Federal Fusion and some 400 (or was it 440?) grain Buffalo Bore. All of it was at 15í

Have to grab a caliper from work to check out the dimensions. I didnít change anything; itís all factory.

By 3 piece, are you counting the nut as one piece?
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:26 AM
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I have seen 3 or 4 S&W sent back because of sights far to the right to hit center. None to the left. I do know what the fix was but they came back in the middle and no charge. These were K & L frame guns. I have owned 2 but traded them off before sending them back.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:28 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
Just a suggestion, but -- this reminds me of the time a friend bought a really nice used 29-2 4". It wore a set of magna grips and a Tyler T-grip -- my favorite set-up for an N-frame -- but he said before he even shot it that it felt too small for his hands.

The first time he shot it his shots were so far left that, like you, he had to move the rear sight to the extreme right to get his shots centered. He called me upset about it, and the next day we went out shooting together. I took a turn shooting the gun -- only to find that for me, with the sights adjusted far-right, it shot far to the right. I suggested a more hand-filling grip, he bought a set of Pachmayr Presentations, and suddenly his problem went away.

It may need to go back to S&W, but I'd have someone else try it first.
Great suggestion on grips!

I commissioned Herretís to make a set of custom grips for my other 500ís. Those indeed fill my hand - perfectly. This pistol is intended to be more of a camping companion, and Iíd like to use the stock Hogues.

Others shot the pistol, and we all had the same experiences. Some with tighter groups than others.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:21 AM
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I thing Pisgah #10 has made good comments. Have someone else shoot the gun. If everything comes back as it is currently, call the factory. I would never be able to shoot a gun with the rear sights cranked over like yours are.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
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....Did you let someone else shoot it(if they will)
Nominated for Best Wisecrack of the Day.

I have no real experience with 500s so can't comment and be helpful but had to recognize the humorist.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:41 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Nominated for Best Wisecrack of the Day.

I have no real experience with 500s so can't comment and be helpful but had to recognize the humorist.
I second the motion!!!
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
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By 3 piece, are you counting the nut as one piece?
Correct. Shroud, barrel & retaining nut.

.

460XVR 3-1/2" PC

(-03a)

.

327TRR8

(-08c)

.
.

The two-piece lack the nut so a special tool is inserted into the muzzle/rifling to tighten the barrel against the shroud.

.

500ES - front quarter view

(-02b)

.

69 Combat Magnum

(-012a)

.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:52 AM
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Sounds like someone is trying to correct for shooting Low & Left. I suspect that this a problem with the Shooter and not the fault of S&W. As for why, about 98% of the time Low and Left is caused by a right handed shooter pulling the gun left during the trigger stroke while pushing off at the same time.

My advice is that Flipside slow down, concentrate and achieving complete relaxation when the trigger breaks and except that his 500 Magnum has a level of recoil that would induce almost any shooter to flinch a bit. BTW, this is coming from someone who has had to compensate for a tendency to flinch with center fire handguns since about 1974. So I know very well from lots of experience that slowing down and concentrating on achieving a relaxed state at the trigger break actually does work.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:28 AM
Flipside Flipside is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
Sounds like someone is trying to correct for shooting Low & Left. I suspect that this a problem with the Shooter and not the fault of S&W. As for why, about 98% of the time Low and Left is caused by a right handed shooter pulling the gun left during the trigger stroke while pushing off at the same time.

My advice is that Flipside slow down, concentrate and achieving complete relaxation when the trigger breaks and except that his 500 Magnum has a level of recoil that would induce almost any shooter to flinch a bit. BTW, this is coming from someone who has had to compensate for a tendency to flinch with center fire handguns since about 1974. So I know very well from lots of experience that slowing down and concentrating on achieving a relaxed state at the trigger break actually does work.
Great advice and suggestions from all the posters here!

I’m going to mount a set of my Herret’s from a 8-3/8” on this 3-1/3” shorty, rest it in bags, and see what happens.

I’ll also see what it does if a south-paw runs a few rounds down the pipe

Last edited by Flipside; 10-14-2017 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Corrected typo
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:57 PM
SLT223 SLT223 is offline
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Since those shrouded barrels really can’t be canted, it is more likely your grip and or trigger pull...possible an anticipatory flinch. I would experiment with different grip positioning with your hand(s) and different finger positions on the trigger and see what you get.
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