Hello, hope all is well.

Had a new 17-9 shipped to my local gun store. Purchased from a large volume reputable dealer that I've used before. First thing I noticed was the very noticeable cylinder turn line. Is that typical for a NIB revolver from S&W? First new S&W revolver purchase for me in years. I know it will have one eventually just didn't want to pay new price for the floor model.

Sorry no pics but left it at the shop so I would have the option of returning.

A turn line is normal. Some guns take more fitting work then others and the cylinder being rotated / turn line is a by-product. I don’t agree with dealers allowing dry firing but you have to take that into consideration when buying.

Turn lines on revolver cylinders develop almost immediately, simply from the entirely normal contact with the cylinder stop during cylinder rotation.

I would get upset if a 17-9 was dry fired! Its not a center fire revolver!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

They are test fired at the factory so it has already been fired and the cylinder rotated.

As for dealers allowing dry firing ....I'm all for it. Only way I'll buy a gun. If I can't try the trigger I may as well just look at it from the glass case

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To me with my machine building experience the turn line shouldn't be there, it tells me the cylinder locking cam is too high in the frame so it drags on the cylinder. It should of been fitted so it's a tad lower so it just misses the cylinder. Ever notice some turn lines are heavier than the others? Some have no turn lines? It's improper fitting on the gunsmiths part.

You do not understand the mechanics of the S&W revolver or you wouldn't say this!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Maybe some are shot less than others!! Some are barely shot at all

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With all due respect and deference to your knowledge and experience, I disagree with your assessment. I own more than a few S&W revolvers, all in perfect working order, and they all have the drag line on the cylinder. I might add that a large number of them are over 60 years old, but a few built in the eighties. I believe the spring on the bolt has to create enough pressure to keep the cylinder in place, hence it presses slightly on the cylinder as it rotates between Chambers. I would submit that a revolver without a turn line might be dangerous to shoot. In my years of shooting experience, I have not encountered a S&W revolver without one. Even my S/S guns show a line, though not as pronounced.

On the two Thunder Ranch .44 Specials I rejected some years ago for a number of reasons, both came brand new with drag lines.
And not just because the bluing had been worn from cylinder stop contact.

Both lines were actually engraved below the surface of the bluing, into the steel.
I could easily feel both with a thumbnail.

In those guns, the leading contact edges of the stops were quite sharp, cutting the drag line even beyond normal.

They vary from gun to gun, but it's not unusual nowdays to get a brand new drag line on your brand new Smith.


I have a 15 here with a very minor drag line, can see it, but can't feel it with a thumbnail at all.
Former sheriff's office issue, gotta be at least 40 years old.
And you KNOW that thing's seen some rounds through it during its working life.

Have a round-butt pencil-barrel 10 in about 99% condition, no idea how many rounds through it.
Has a miniscule drag line you have to look hard to find, can't feel it with a thumbnail.


Part of the situation is that you don't get the same level of bluing on current guns that S&W used to do.
Wears off a little easier.
Denis

Just bought a 351PD. It had a turn line right out of the box. I noticed it right away, but figured it was from either test firing at the factory or during fitting.

Congrats on your new Model 17!

Even my older revolvers the cylinder stop does not make contact with the cylinder until lockup. NOW when opening and closing the cylinder the stop is going to rub on the cylinder until it locks in place.

I need to clarify, it does not drag on any of my S&W revolvers, or Rossi. It does on Rugers, Colts, and Charter Arms.

I agree. Much of the line comes from opening/closing the cylinder. It seems to vary a little on different models but the stop drops down and does not come back up until very near the notch on some model Smiths. One exception I can think of is my 640 where the stop comes up about half way between the notches. My old K22 has a turn line that is more due to loading and unloading as the stop stays down for most of the rotation during firing or dry firing with snap caps.

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Mike, AmVets Member, Navy Vet

Whatever you say......

I still say they could of stoned the arc on the cylinder stop so it's a tad lower so no drag line can be seen. It's just a few thousands.

You know nothing of the operation of a revolver by your statement. Might be better to listen to someone who does.

I have some SA revolvers that have no turn line, even though they have been shot a lot. The Ruger Vaquero does though. To be sure I checked all my Smiths in the safe, and not one of them the stop touches the cylinder while turning until almost lockup.

I would imagine that on a new Smith they get opened and closed a number of times for final fitting, and inspection.

This puzzles me especially about the Colts; the turn line might
indicate a revolver going or gone out of time.

Rugers like the S&W revolvers are designed to have the
bolt pop up from the lower frame early on to drag on the
cylinder, thus ensuring the bolt will not miss the cylinder
notch during very, very rapid double action shooting.
This apparent sloppiness is by design, not poor workmanship.

Regarding WalkingWolf's comments about his SA not having
turn lines; they are a different beast and if treated properly
such as a Colt SAA it won't develop a line.

But once you start driving the SA in competitions, the line
will appear. I'm not surprised that a Vaquero has one from
the onset as that gun is expected to really have that cylinder
spun fast and needs to get the bolt ready to hit the notch.

On Colt SAA, those used in competition such as fast draw
the bolt stop lead ins are often elongated to achieve and
allow the bolt popping up early; otherwise the cylinder
will spin right past the stop. The bolts for those guns
are modified with heavy duty parts to get that bolt up
and going fast---really fast.

If anyone ever watched a S&W operate with the side plate off they would know that taking some off the bolts lug would not help keeping it from dragging on the cylinder and establishing a turn line.

The first movements of the trigger, either by being pulled or by the hammer moving it while cocking, cause the bolt to be pressed down via a "sear" on the front portion of the trigger, that engages a small sear on the bolt moving it down and allowing the cylinder to unlock. Shortly there after the trigger's bolt sear moves past the bolt's "sear" releasing the bolt and allowing it to pop up against the cylinder and be ready to drop into the next notch ramp and then notch. As there is absolutely nothing in the mechanism holding the bolt from moving to full engagement after the trigger releases it, removing material from the top of the bolt so it didn't rub the cylinder would of course make it to short to pop up into a notch.

While it might be possible to engineer a mechanism that had a longer trigger to bolt engagement it would take a bit of room because of the amount of arc that the trigger on a double action revolver must move through to cock and release the hammer with out compressing the hammer spring all at once. Plus, then you would have to work out another method to allow the trigger and bolt to re engage. Re engagement on S&W works by having the pivot on the bolt use a slightly elongated hole. This allows the bolt to slide back enough that the trigger's bolt sear can move back up above the bolts sear tooth.

VERY slightly rounding the corners of the bolt and polishing the tip will slow the development of a turn line, but it will still come.

All I really care about is that mine lock up positively when bore and throat are aligned. That's the purpose of the whole thing anyway.

What I want to know is "How do I keep the tip of the exhaust pipe on my new car from getting dirty?"

While it is normal for a cylinder stop drag line to start forming with only minimal cycling of a S&W double action, turn lines in S&W's rust bluing can easily be prevented IF you take possession before a line appears. Simply remove the stop then dull its leading edge with a super fine abrasive stone. Tell yourself the goal is to only remove molecules. I use an old Case Arkansas stone that feels like smooth glass.

Other members dull both edges and polish the top of the stop which shouldn't hurt but the geometry makes only the stop's leading edge drag.

Logically, stoning a stainless S&W's cylinder stop should retard formation of the prominent drag line that Model 625s typically acquire. However, not very many owners of stainless revolvers bother with it.

S&W quit bluing revolvers roughly around 2000. Since then what they've lied and called bluing is not much more than dye. Hoppee's #9 cleaning solvent removes it. I do not know if stoning a modern blue colored revolver's cylinder stop would help, but it couldn't hurt.

Do you care? The last as new (meaning no turn line) blued S&W that I bought I took straight to a Bullseye match. That's how I justified paying Cabela's too much for it. I was going to get enjoyment out of it right away. In hind sight I wish I'd shot a different .22 the first match and put off firing that Model 17-4 long enough to stone its cylinder stop.

Before Bill Clinton put 80% of FFLs out of business we ordinarily received new S&Ws without turn lines by ordering them through home FFLs. Now customer inspections start a turn line on most new S&W revolvers before the stores sell them.

My long winded answer to the original poster's question is the presence of a drag line on a S&W that has not been previously sold at retail only matters if you were planning to stone its cylinder stop before significant handling. How much do you care?

Edit to add: I assumed the ignorant claim that S&W cylinder stops do not or should not drag on the cylinder would have been tossed out into the ally with last week's dirty dish water while I typed so I did not address it. Perhaps some of you bought S&Ws with cylinder stops stoned by previous owners and/or your revolvers are still safe queens. If the former, good for you. If the latter Child Protective Services should relocate your S&Ws to homes where they will be fed regularly.

Dan Wesson himself said there's supposed to be a turn line:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/136879139-post8.html

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Just Say No - To Social Media

I have three Smiths, and one Rossi, not one of them the stop drags on the cylinder. The Colt is an older Colt, but what I have seen most pop up about half way. Rugers, at least mine release early, but at least they are light lines. My Pietta there is no line, nor is there any on my two Uberti 51 Navy conversions.

On all my DA revolvers if the cylinder is not exactly lined up with the stop on closing, it will drag until the cylinder catches at the notches.

I'm not a real s&w guy anyway. I don't care for the screws coming loose on the magnum revolvers too. My ruger revolvers don't have screws. My colt Python had no drag line too.

Python was one of the most finely tuned firearms. IIRC where the bolt popped up is one of the items on the checklist for a proper tuned Python.

On the other hand, the wear in a engine cylinder is made from the rings dragging in the cylinder. Yet when rebuilding an engine a reamer is used to remove the ridge at the top, because the rings do not go all the way to the top. Same for the cylinder stop, if the wear was solely from the stop, then there would be spot of no wear where the stop receded before it popped up again. All the turn lines on guns I have seen are consistent from bolt notch to bolt notch.

That is too funny!
Almost 10,000 posts on the S&W forum and you're not a "real S&W guy"?!

I close my guns on the chamber, meaning I line up the chamber with the barrel. Then I have a faint 1/3 of turn line developing. The turn line comes when people closing the gun in between chambers. Look from the side: When you fire it and the cylinder moves forward, the cylinder stop notch is up and lowers down shortly before the notches. A full deep turnline to me says gun was played with too much by people who don't know, opening closing dry firing, showing their buddy, opening closing some more etc. This is true on the old guns, I do not know on the new generation guns, maybe stop comes down earlier and stop spring may be stronger meaning deeper turnline.

Oysterer,

You must be the slowest.....s l o w e s t.....s l o w e s t
......s l o w e s t one to reload your Smith in
the history of r e l o a d i n g.

While closing a valuable safe queen it is best to align a stop notch over the cylinder stop and slightly rotate the cylinder so the notch seats over the stop. That way the stop never touches the cylinder outside of the notch. However, that does preclude firing the revolver.

Uncle Ed,

done it some many thousands of times that it became a habit, can't even help it. I look at the cylinder, a round pointing exactly at 12 o clock, close the cylinder and no turn line. Same speed as not looking at it.

S&W is winning me over one gun at a time.

Does the cylinder loc have a slight pressure upward that causes the turn line so the loc engages the slot in the cylinder sooner?

Yes, shortly after the trigger moves it down and away from the last notch it was locked in the trigger releases the bolt and its spring pops it back up against the cylinder where it rides, ready to ramp into the next notch. This makes it capable of extremely fast and positive double action lock up so guys like Ed McGivern could and Jerry Miculek can fire them at very rapid rates.

thank you guys for all the information i found here. i'm new to revolvers as guns started to be my hobby only for the last few months (after been searching for rx coupons because of health issues) and i'm still learning, i found lots of useful information here as i was having some question that got answered by reading through your posts here. but i also wanted to ask, if i am going to have some questions, may i ask them here? thanks!

I almost spit my coffee out from laughing when I read this... I'm sorry guys.. carry on...

There's a more abbreviated name for S&W revolvers that don't have a turn line: paperweight.

I'm gonna go home and check all my autos to see if they have a turn line too?

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

While it does not hurt to dig up a zombie thread you are more likely to get answers to your specific question if you are not bashful and start your own thread. You never know what a simple thread starting question might develop into. I presumed my first thread would only get 2 or 3 redundant replies. I turned into a long running popular thread.

However, if you prefer you can ask here.

Any S&W revolver will have some type of line from lock up to lock up if the gun has been cycled. Even the 'new old stock guns' will have something there if you look (however very faint). What really causes the entire line around the cylinder is indexing the cylinder. If you align the cylinder hole with the forcing cone you can minimize the whole line around the cylinder. Even if a gun is brand new but has been safety checked and indexed every time somebody looks at it, it will develop more of a line.

I have a mod 37 that almost doesnt have any turn lines, you have to look close to find any, not everwhere on the cylinder. It is almost perfect. It can be done.

My goodness, this has to be posted over and over again:

Attached Images

	S&W drag line inquiry.jpg (52.4 KB, 33 views)
	S&W drag line S&W response.jpg (92.1 KB, 38 views)

OH NO YOU DI-IN'T. Set the stage for the fight scene and get somebody on popcorn duty. I think lot's of us have a screw loose, but the guns are fine. IMO The OP MAYBE got a floor model??? As to dry firing, if you wouldn't do it to your own gun, where do you get off expecting to do it to someone else's? This is why so many guns are zip tied down at gun shows, to cut down on the coon fingering. I had a table at a small show once, turned away from a guy "checking out" a revolver, in a flash he had his trusty leatherman out to remove the cylinder/side plate & grips.

No, they really can't.

"A turn line is evidence that the revolver is working properly." This quote has been repeated so many times that I am not sure who originally said it, but the letters I posted before from Col. Wesson himself are pretty good evidence that the lines are normal.

The letters are also pretty good evidence that people were whiners even back then.

A properly functioning revolver is better than one that suffers from cylinder overrun in fast double action shooting.

This is the best quote in this thread so far.

ROTFL,