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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 11-23-2017, 03:08 PM
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Default No more revolvers . . .

The end of an era, and a mistake in my humble opinion.

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Old 11-23-2017, 03:33 PM
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It was bound to happen eventually; fewer officers carrying one and perhaps armorers to maintain them, etc. Interesting how they will still be authorized for off-duty carry. The end of an era .
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:02 PM
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I guess there might be a few of the revolvers for sale come the new year.

I wonder which revolvers are still in on duty holsters out on patrol?

Surprising that there is no S&W pistols on the authorized for on-duty list.

S&W and the NYPD were best buddies during my time in the NYPD.

You just gotta love a semi auto 12 lb DA trigger pull for all those warning shots,aka misses.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by StakeOut View Post
I guess there might be a few of the revolvers for sale come the new year...
Every cloud has a silver lining. Unfortunately for me, there probably won't be any N frames. Probably a lot of J and some K frames for sale though.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:24 PM
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Talking MORE FOR US?

SO when is the going out of business sale? How about the snubs as a bug/ankle carry? IMO a bug should be the ultimate in reliability.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:50 PM
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Well, its the way it is and really makes sense. Over 25 years ago I did a project and LAPD had only about 250 or 275 officers still qualifying with the revolver, and the majority of them carried a semi auto they just qualified with the revolver , because they were shooting the Bonus course or they were non gun or non field types who hadn't bothered to go to Semi Auto school.
Officers coming on after 6 or 9 of 1989 cant carry a revolver for a primary duty weapon. And the only training received is during the back-up gun portion of their academy firearms training. I think now even that is semi auto with a very brief exposure to revolvers. So eventually attrition will cover it.
Also save the Dept money on ammo, or at least the need to stock revolver ammo. And as we know their is not much support getting revolvers repaired or especially parts for older models by S/W.
I'm a revolver guy, and I love my revolvers, and they shoot good, But they are way inferior to semi autos as a duty type weapon.Even as a every day carry, I carry a S/A.
Not just the ammo count but, in ease of reloading in combat situations, night sights, light attachments etc. Like cell phones versus the callbox its just the change..Happy Thanksgiving.. Bob

Last edited by CALREB; 11-23-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:53 PM
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I'm a revolver guy, and I love my revolvers, and they shoot good, But they are way inferior to semi autos as a duty type weapon.Even as a every day carry, I carry a S/A.
+1 - 15+ beats 6-7 every time
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:55 PM
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Wow, having to give up your revolver hurts.
Having to trade in a venerable S&W revolver for a Glock makes it downright insulting.
How are you going to be able to qualify while wearing the paper bag of shame over your head?
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Old 11-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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Default no plastic

WHOA!!!!!! Hooker, poor rookies coming on the job don't have a choice , but I never said I went plastic..
Beretta 92f, then S/W 4506 and finally went to P/C 5906, so it never hurt that bad...
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Old 11-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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Our POST firearms instructor course here has a small revolver portion. Students are required to supply a revolver.

Lot of the guys don’t have one and come looking to me to borrow one of mine for the course.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2017, 06:29 PM
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Too bad but this may be budget driven, at least in part, b/c of duty ammo, range ammo, and other considerations.
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Old 11-23-2017, 06:40 PM
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Cheer up. You can always go back to your trusted wheel gun after you retire.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:53 AM
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"Members transitioning to the semi-automatic pistol will be issued their choice of Firearm..."

At least they don't have to buy their own.

I heard there are only 200 revolvers left in service use.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:09 AM
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I am shocked you could still have a revolver on duty. I love my wheel guns (I have about 50 S&W revolvers and 2 SA's), but they are hobby interests. Given the prevalence of SA weapons in utilization, I don't think I would want to take a revolver on my journey through a LE career these days....not too many bad guys seem to limit themselves to 6 or 7 rounds w/ 10lbs + trigger pulls.
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Old 11-24-2017, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adwjc View Post
"Members transitioning to the semi-automatic pistol will be issued their choice of Firearm..."

At least they don't have to buy their own.

I heard there are only 200 revolvers left in service use.
That’s probably about right. And the vast majority of those are the double action only revolvers, the S&W Model 64 being the most common, and the Ruger GPNY and a few Service Six trailing behind. The job went to the DAO revolvers in 1988 I think. Can’t be more than a few Model 10’s being carried, and guys who do.l are gonna be bummed. They were a real badge of honor. You’d have to have at least 29 years on to still be carrying one, and odds are you’re not still in the bag if you have that time on. I remember being in Brooklyn Central Booking in the mid nineties. Guy dropping off some perps had 8 stripes on his sleeve, so at least 40 years on. Had to have been racking up overtime before his mandatory retirement.

The job hasn’t issued a service revolver in 24 years. Most guys who had them have retired. I do know it was common for guys about to retire to get the free semi auto and then put their papers in.

It’s sad that no more S&W firearms for the NYPD. Two Glocks? Why? I remember there was a thread about the M&P being considered. Guess it didn’t make the cut. It takes an act of God to get a new firearm authorized.

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Old 11-24-2017, 01:24 PM
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"Members transitioning to the semi-automatic pistol will be issued their choice of Firearm..."I heard there are only 200 revolvers left in service use.
Sounds to me like it's not their choice at all. TBH I'm surprised that there are any wheelguns at all used in any current American police force. I know that a few of my contract guards trained for a job protecting the local Federal Building and they were using Taurus .38 Specials...so I guess there are still some in private police agencies hands.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:31 PM
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And explain to me why a 13/15 round semi-auto makes no sense for a police officer in today's violet society ??????
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:35 PM
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I carried the S&W model 10 4" for my whole career, I did qualify and receive the Glock 19 for free just before retirement. I guess this is the end of an era for the NYPD.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
Thatís probably about right. And the vast majority of those are the double action only revolvers, the S&W Model 64 being the most common, and the Ruger GPNY and a few Service Six trailing behind. The job went to the DAO revolvers in 1988 I think. Canít be more than a few Model 10ís being carried, and guys who do.l are gonna be bummed. They were a real badge of honor. Youíd have to have at least 29 years on to still be carrying one, and odds are youíre not still in the bag if you have that time on. I remember being in Brooklyn Central Booking in the mid nineties. Guy dropping off some perps had 8 stripes on his sleeve, so at least 40 years on. Had to have been racking up overtime before his mandatory retirement.

The job hasnít issued a service revolver in 24 years. Most guys who had them have retired. I do know it was common for guys about to retire to get the free semi auto and then put their papers in.

Itís sad that no more S&W firearms for the NYPD. Two Glocks? Why? I remember there was a thread about the M&P being considered. Guess it didnít make the cut. It takes an act of God to get a new firearm authorized.


My guess is that S&W wouldnít modify their M&P to have the heavy NY trigger like Glock has.



Canít say Iím surprised to see revolvers go. I love a good wheel gun, but they wouldnít be my choice as a duty gun anymore. When you take nostalgia out of the picture, there isnít much a revolver can do that a semi auto canít do better, IMHO.


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Old 11-24-2017, 09:49 PM
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The only wheelgun I consider being a sensible choice in the context of having a role in modern police work would be a snub revolver as a BUG.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:20 PM
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I guess things have changed since the last time I read about NYPD pistols. Last I remember officers had to buy their pistols and could choose between the Glock 19, a S&W (DAO version of the 5906, IIRC), or a DAO Sig P226.

I consider myself a revolver guy, but if I were working in LE I'd want a double-stack 9mm as a primary gun.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:28 PM
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I guess things have changed since the last time I read about NYPD pistols. Last I remember officers had to buy their pistols and could choose between the Glock 19, a S&W (DAO version of the 5906, IIRC), or a DAO Sig P226.

I consider myself a revolver guy, but if I were working in LE I'd want a double-stack 9mm as a primary gun.
Yes, BUT - I'll bet your BUG would be a S&W revolver!
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by oneounceload View Post
+1 - 15+ beats 6-7 every time
NAH! Revolvers are easier to get that first accurate shot off, and that's still just as easy-peasy with a revolver as an auto pistol..

now if it goes on, then you're absolutely correct, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:37 PM
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Yes, BUT - I'll bet your BUG would be a S&W revolver!
More than likely!
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:24 AM
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I'm a weirdo who's put NY-1 springs into the few Glocks I've tried. Number one, is that the gun would keep shooting if the spring went south (unlikely, sure, but it happens). Number two is that the trigger resistance starts from the beginning of the pull, with less of a 'two-stage' feel like a military rifle. I simply could shoot better with it. That said, I have NOT shot their ridiculous 12lb spring set-up. Thus, I wonder if the rolling DA of a Sig, more like a revolver, would be the better shooter in my hands. The downside would be that absent stainless construction (only on their slides!), the Sig would likely need more attention to corrosion/maintenance than the Glock.
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:40 AM
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I'm a weirdo who's put NY-1 springs into the few Glocks I've tried.
FWIW, when I had a Glock 23 I used the NY1/"-" connector combo. The pull weight is about the same as the factory trigger, but with resistance for the full length of the trigger pull instead of the 2-stage feel. It also had a stronger trigger reset. It was the closest to the "roll" of a DA trigger I could get with the Glock.
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Old 11-25-2017, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. W. View Post
My guess is that S&W wouldnít modify their M&P to have the heavy NY trigger like Glock has.



Canít say Iím surprised to see revolvers go. I love a good wheel gun, but they wouldnít be my choice as a duty gun anymore. When you take nostalgia out of the picture, there isnít much a revolver can do that a semi auto canít do better, IMHO.


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One thing a semiauto can do better than a revolver is spray a large number of rounds at nothing in particular. Not saying that all semiauto shooters do that, but the level of marksmanship I've seen over the years has deteriorated.

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Old 11-25-2017, 01:51 AM
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Given mandatory semi-auto issue began in the early 90's, I bet the number of officers this will actually impact by next August 31st is almost zero.

Regardless, still a melancholy commentary on today's society that a six-shot .38 is viewed as woefully inadequate for law enforcement in our greatest city.

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Old 11-25-2017, 01:52 AM
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Somebody has to get credit for discontinuing revolvers, so that someone else can get credit for bringing them back.
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
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My guess is that S&W wouldnít modify their M&P to have the heavy NY trigger like Glock has.
You're probably right.

The Kahr K9 was an authorized NYPD off duty gun for quite a few years. It was suddenly deauthorized with little explanation. It was said that for some reason, NYPD decided that the trigger pull was too light. They asked Kahr to increase the weight and Kahr refused. So, they deauthorized the gun and the Cops who had them had to buy a new authorized off duty or carry their service weapon off duty.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:22 AM
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My guess is that S&W wouldnít modify their M&P to have the heavy NY trigger like Glock has.
I don't think that's the case considering they already make state compliant m&p models with 10+ lb trigger pulls.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:49 AM
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+1 - 15+ beats 6-7 every time
One in the ten ring beats 15 in the gravel every time . . .
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:19 AM
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I don't think that's the case considering they already make state compliant m&p models with 10+ lb trigger pulls.
Smith submitted an M&P. It didn't hold up on 10,000 round test.
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:35 AM
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"Finest Message" ???????? Doesn't anyone ever proof read these things
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:58 AM
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Proof reading appears to be a lost art. I recall a revised version of our return to duty after medical leave policy that required our doctor to run the PT test. The really sad thing is that I'd been on vacation and was the last person in the department (management/supervision included) to read it and no one else had noticed the goof.

I recently started reacquainting myself with revolvers larger than J frames. I've found them very competitive (at least with a trigger that would give NYPD the vapors) with semis-unless you're shooting competition where hundredths and thousandths of a second are significant. The biggest issues are the length of the trigger stroke and reloads. Even with speed loaders, it takes about twice as long to reload a revolver and then there's the capacity thing.

There's also the ammo issue. The big advantage the 9mm used to have is that the velocity range of the ammo is limited. It's easy to optimize bullet performance. With .38/.357 it's humungous. A few ammo makers have recognized the issue and developed different bullets for the 2 calibers, but that isn't widespread.

Last edited by WR Moore; 11-25-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
One in the ten ring beats 15 in the gravel every time . . .
This reminds me of a couple of weekends ago. I was at the range confirming zero in my muzzleloader after wacking the scope pretty good and when putting it away noticed a box of UMC 125gr SJHP 38 +Ps in the trunk. So I thought I would shoot them while I was there.

In the mean time some very nice young LEOs showed up for yearly back-up gun qualification. They had SW Shields. I grabbed my raggedy beat to heck 642 that I have already had to shim for end shake and peen the yoke a couple of times after going through thicker screws.

They were shooting at 3 and 5 yards and barely keeping the shoots on a piece of computer paper. I was shooting at 25 yards at a 4 inch black circle on a white background. I only missed the circle 2 x's out of 15 rounds. They were in shock. Said they couldn't shoot their duty glocks that well.

I went back and got my new model 66-8 2.75, which is my least accurate 66 snub, but my primary carry. I went to their 5 year target, drew and dumped six right in the middle, did a flawless speedload and dumped in another 6. About that time their instructor showed up and I wished them good luck and left.

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Old 11-25-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
One thing a semiauto can do better than a revolver is spray a large number of rounds at nothing in particular. Not saying that all semiauto shooters do that, but the level of marksmanship I've seen over the years has deteriorated.

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Agreed. However, I donít think that can be blamed entirely on the gun. I think poor marksmanship is largely the fault of police departments. The truth is that society has changed. Most cops arenít shooters or really even interested in guns these days. The majority of recruits with firearms experience are either hunters or military. Neither of which really produce pistoleros. (with the obvious exception of military SF types)

Now, letís couple the recruitís background with the fact that departments donít foster marksmanship like they did years ago with competitions, etc. Amongst other duties, Iím a firearms instructor for my agency of 170 officers. We get two qualifications and one training day per year. We try to cover basic marksmanship as much as we can, but we also have to cover a myriad of other topics like use of cover, building/ room entries, malfunctions, reloads, etc, etc. We simply donít have the time or budget to make every officer a shooter. Unfortunately, most guys arenít going to put in their own time or dime to improve.

I think a revolver in the hands of most of these officers would change only the round count going down range, not the hit ratio. Thatís just my 2 cents of course!


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Old 11-25-2017, 01:03 PM
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As much as I enjoy revolvers if I was going to do battle with something it would be a semiauto.

FWIW it wouldn't be a Glock, either.
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Old 11-25-2017, 01:11 PM
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As much as I enjoy revolvers if I was going to do battle with something it would be a semiauto.
Booo...hiss
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:32 PM
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One in the ten ring beats 15 in the gravel every time . . .
I never understand when I am told semi-autos are more powerful than revolvers of similar size. Comperable size firearm, comperable ammo, 38=9, 44=45.

Unless the tacic of grazing fire has been adopted (and it may well have been). Only hits count, so having a P90 you can't hit anything with is silly (and dangerous to bystanders).

What works for the patrollman, is not ideal for a supervisor or a detective, or an undercover officer, once upon a time the B****** 21a was authorized for certain duties.

Oh well, que sera sera.
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:35 PM
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As much as I enjoy revolvers if I was going to do battle with something it would be a semiauto.

FWIW it wouldn't be a Glock, either.
I would choose a single shot. With HEAT, HE, AP ammo, thermal imaging, and a driver and loader to accompany me.
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Old 11-25-2017, 03:44 PM
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I have to wonder why GSA even needs to be armed.

I happen to know a GSA employee who spent a significant amount of time on projects on the Mexican border. This involved visiting some pretty remote sites in the desert very near the border. I joked if they issued him body armor, but no security of any kind was provided.
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:06 PM
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I would choose a single shot. With HEAT, HE, AP ammo, thermal imaging, and a driver and loader to accompany me.
Well... you'd probably cause less colateral damage than the NYPD.
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:18 PM
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If you think these revolvers will reach the public, your dreaming. Remember this is NY land of the melted down.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:28 PM
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+1 - 15+ beats 6-7 every time
Only if You hit what You shoot at.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:34 PM
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If you think these revolvers will reach the public, your dreaming. Remember this is NY land of the melted down.
In 1989 a newly sworn NYPD officer had to buy his own revolver from an approved list. That year the department started an expirament with department owned semi-automatics.

Some, but not all new officers sworn between 1989 and 1994 were provided department owned semis. Those officers could not later elect to carry revolvers. Other officers sworn between 1989 and 1994 had to buy thiet own sidearm, around the end of 89, beginning of 90 a semi joined the approved list.

Officers who purchased thier own sidearm were permitted to carry same after the 1994 elimination of revolvers from the approved list.

The significant part of this is (1) all revolvers carried by NYPD officers are owned by the officer, not the department. (2) any officer with a primary sidearm that is a revolver has 24-28 years of service, probably has a second approved semi and isn't about to sell his revolver.

If I am wrong PM me and we can haggle.
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:56 PM
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"Finest Message" ???????? Doesn't anyone ever proof read these things

I admit it: I don't see the typo.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:00 PM
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I never understand when I am told semi-autos are more powerful than revolvers of similar size. Comperable size firearm, comperable ammo, 38=9, 44=45.



Unless the tacic of grazing fire has been adopted (and it may well have been). Only hits count, so having a P90 you can't hit anything with is silly (and dangerous to bystanders).



What works for the patrollman, is not ideal for a supervisor or a detective, or an undercover officer, once upon a time the B****** 21a was authorized for certain duties.



Oh well, que sera sera.


Iíve never heard anyone say autos are more powerful that revos.

They might be saying theyíre the better choice for LEOs, which, despite my love for revolvers, is probably true.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TomkinsSP View Post
In 1989 a newly sworn NYPD officer had to buy his own revolver from an approved list. That year the department started an expirament with department owned semi-automatics.

Some, but not all new officers sworn between 1989 and 1994 were provided department owned semis. Those officers could not later elect to carry revolvers. Other officers sworn between 1989 and 1994 had to buy thiet own sidearm, around the end of 89, beginning of 90 a semi joined the approved list.

Officers who purchased thier own sidearm were permitted to carry same after the 1994 elimination of revolvers from the approved list.

The significant part of this is (1) all revolvers carried by NYPD officers are owned by the officer, not the department. (2) any officer with a primary sidearm that is a revolver has 24-28 years of service, probably has a second approved semi and isn't about to sell his revolver.

If I am wrong PM me and we can haggle.
Yep, we bought our own and the gun belonged to you. When the job started offering free semi autos, guys were selling their revolvers for $100, including the leather and speed loaders. The gunshop near 1 Police Plaza used to give $20 for a Model 10. Then they'd sell them for $100. Man, I wish I bought a dozen.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:38 PM
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Yep, we bought our own and the gun belonged to you. When the job started offering free semi autos, guys were selling their revolvers for $100, including the leather and speed loaders. The gunshop near 1 Police Plaza used to give $20 for a Model 10. Then they'd sell them for $100. Man, I wish I bought a dozen.
Me too. (10 character minimum)
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