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Old 04-16-2018, 05:02 PM
hoghunter hoghunter is offline
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Default 327PC 2" Humbled at the Range

Took the 327PC 2" to the range for the first 100rds through it. The 7yd range wasn't available so I ventured to the 25yd range. Yikes. I couldn't hit a dadgum thing at 25yds. It was utterly embarrassing to put 100rds down range and only put a handful on paper. I'm no Jerry Miculek for sure- but I didn't expect to be that bad. I know the 327PC is not meant to be a range gun but anyone else experience this? I have to blame myself as a new revolver shooter but never in my life have I totally missed target so many times. Is there any history or accuracy issues out of the box with this gun that Smith would fix? The trigger is really sweet so it can't be a trigger issue. Looking for answers beyond "I stink". I was shooting Remington 130gr which isn't know to be great ammo but I had no issues with strikes, misfires, etc. Any thoughts beyond practice, pratice, practice? I don't even know where to hold to get the gun on target?
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:16 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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You need to get centered on paper at 7 or 10 yards first. Once you know the sights are on up close, the gun will at least be on paper at 25, then you can fine tune the sights a click or 2 to get centered there. If you know the gun is sighted in properly, then you can work on the driver.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:26 PM
ridgewalker ridgewalker is offline
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I remember when I first tried mine I had similar results as you. I was shooting factory 357 back then and it was a handful. I changed to rubber grips and started shooting lighter loads and kept practicing with it. eventually I found that it is actually quite an accurate gun for itís barrel length. Nothing beats practice.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:08 PM
1sailor 1sailor is online now
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It's also a really good idea to try shooting from a rest if it's available. That really helps to show whether it's you or the gun. I've seen a lot of guys printing really low and swearing they were on target when they pulled the trigger. Almost to a man they were rushing forward in anticipation as they pulled the trigger which forced the barrel down slightly. Shooting from a rest they generally put them at least in some sort of group on the paper. As mentioned 25 yards the first time out can be daunting. Interesting choice for your first revolver.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:23 PM
hoghunter hoghunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
You need to get centered on paper at 7 or 10 yards first. Once you know the sights are on up close, the gun will at least be on paper at 25, then you can fine tune the sights a click or 2 to get centered there. If you know the gun is sighted in properly, then you can work on the driver.
The sights are not adjustable on the 327PC 2". Fixed with an orange ramp.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:24 PM
wadcutter1 wadcutter1 is offline
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Start with single action so that you learn the sights and point of aim. Follow that up with a fair amount of double action dry firing to understand how the revolver shifts as you pull the trigger, and break yourself of bad habit (e.g. I tend to tighten the grip as I pull the trigger). That's what I did when I got my first allow j-frame and couldn't hit the side of a barn.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:27 PM
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My 327PC 2" shoots to point of aim at 50' with the iron fixed sights and/or with the Crimson Trace Lasergrips.

Dry fire practice, using snap caps and the laser will certainly help develop a trigger pull that does not pull the revolver off of target as you squeeze the trigger.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:29 PM
hoghunter hoghunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sailor View Post
It's also a really good idea to try shooting from a rest if it's available. That really helps to show whether it's you or the gun. I've seen a lot of guys printing really low and swearing they were on target when they pulled the trigger. Almost to a man they were rushing forward in anticipation as they pulled the trigger which forced the barrel down slightly. Shooting from a rest they generally put them at least in some sort of group on the paper. As mentioned 25 yards the first time out can be daunting. Interesting choice for your first revolver.
I bought a 28-2, M&P340, and 327PC 2" all within the week so technically I have three new revolvers. All three VERY different- but I'm strange that way. I'm a big dude so the N Frame is no issue for me. They had a wooden rest contraption at the range and I tried to use it but there isn't a lot of space to rest this 2". When I did rest it I still wasn't on paper. I definitely need to move closer to practice.
Is there a rest that the group here recommends that would fit this 2"? I've always wanted to use a rest to test my guns but I've never really researched. Thanks
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:33 PM
hoghunter hoghunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
My 327PC 2" shoots to point of aim at 50' with the iron fixed sights and/or with the Crimson Trace Lasergrips.

Dry fire practice, using snap caps and the laser will certainly help develop a trigger pull that does not pull the revolver off of target as you squeeze the trigger.
Thanks. I shot every round in single action to try and limit any trigger play. That said- dry fire practice is still needed.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:41 PM
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Unless your name is Elmer, 25 yards with a 2" gun ain't easy. It's easy to sit on the other end of a computer & talk about shooting clover leafs at 50 yards but I'd like to see proof. (and I ain't from Missouri)
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:55 PM
ridgewalker ridgewalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoghunter View Post
I bought a 28-2, M&P340, and 327PC 2" all within the week so technically I have three new revolvers. All three VERY different- but I'm strange that way. I'm a big dude so the N Frame is no issue for me. They had a wooden rest contraption at the range and I tried to use it but there isn't a lot of space to rest this 2". When I did rest it I still wasn't on paper. I definitely need to move closer to practice.
Is there a rest that the group here recommends that would fit this 2"? I've always wanted to use a rest to test my guns but I've never really researched. Thanks
Iíve got a couple more thoughts since my post above.
First the double action trigger pull on the 327 PC is delightful, probably the best of all my revolvers, due to Ti cylinder.
Next, I donít know how much revolver shooting experience you have but I would recommend you get good with the Model 28 first since that is a more reasonable revolver to learn with. Then get good with the 327PC and then with the M&P 340. Youíll have a much happier experience that way.
Finally, I donít work for the company but maybe I sound like it but I really like Pachmayr Diamond Pro grips and I bet they will work good on your guns.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:56 PM
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With my eyes, if I focus on the front sight of my 327, I don’t even think I could see a target at 25 yards.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:20 PM
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Get back to that 7 yard line when available. 25 is challenging especially with a new 2" gun.

You don't say what size target you are using.You could have been grouping just off the paper.

I was at a public range a while back and a young couple was shooting a new Sig 380. It was bought for her as a CCW. Neither one could hit the 8" target they were using at 7 yards.

I usually don't offer unsolicited advise , but could tell they were getting frustrated . I gave them a large silhouette target I had in my range bag.

They were both putting nice little groups about 5 inches low. Must have been right below their target. The attitude toward that little Sig changed in a hurry.

I guess I am saying just give it a little more time.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:05 PM
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Shoot at something on a dirt berm beside the 25yd target to see where you're hitting or benchrest it. Pretty soon you'll think a 7 yard target is child's play and your wasting your ammo at that range.

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Old 04-18-2018, 02:53 PM
clarkstoncz clarkstoncz is offline
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Hello. I've thought about the 986 pC., but really don't want to mess with mooncips.

I already have 38/357 in the inventory, and the 327 PC 2 incher, or the 686 PC with its
lock seem ideal to me, IF I can pull the trigger in DA mode.

I'm curious as to what poundage your stock triggers are, or have you measured?

Some say a LCR or KLCR should be about 10 pounds.

I really don't want a S&W with a heavier DA trigger than that.

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Old 04-18-2018, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoghunter View Post
Took the 327PC 2" to the range for the first 100rds through it. The 7yd range wasn't available so I ventured to the 25yd range. Yikes. I couldn't hit a dadgum thing at 25yds. It was utterly embarrassing to put 100rds down range and only put a handful on paper. I'm no Jerry Miculek for sure- but I didn't expect to be that bad. I know the 327PC is not meant to be a range gun but anyone else experience this? I have to blame myself as a new revolver shooter but never in my life have I totally missed target so many times. Is there any history or accuracy issues out of the box with this gun that Smith would fix? The trigger is really sweet so it can't be a trigger issue. Looking for answers beyond "I stink". I was shooting Remington 130gr which isn't know to be great ammo but I had no issues with strikes, misfires, etc. Any thoughts beyond practice, pratice, practice? I don't even know where to hold to get the gun on target?
THE FIRST THING THAT YOU MUST DO, IS TO ZERO THE REVOLVER, WITH THE AMMO THAT YOU INTEND TO SHOOT......

THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE, WHILE SEATED AT THE RANGE, RESTING THE RECEIVER--NOT THE BARREL--AND YOUR 2 HANDS, GRIPPING THE GUN, ON A SANDBAG, OR ROLLED UP TOWEL. USING A TRADITIONAL, "6 O'CLOCK HOLD". FIRE A CYLINDER OF AMMO, CAREFULLY IN SA MODE, IF YOUR REVOLVER ALLOWS. . FROM THAT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DISCERNE WHERE THE GUN IS SHOOTING. NOW MAKE YOUR SIGHT ADJUSTMENTS TO BRING POI, TO COINCIDE WITH POA. (READ BELOW) BE PATIENT, AND REPEAT THE PROCEDURE, UNTIL YOU ARE SATISFIED......

REMEMBER THAT THE 6 O'CLOCK HOLD IS USED IN BULLSEYE COMPETITION, ON PAPER TARGETS. THE PROPER SIGHT PICTURE IS HELD AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BLACK BULLSEYE (6 O' CLOCK) KEEPING THE THINNEST BAND OF WHITE PAPER BETWEEN THE TOP OF THE BLACK FRONT SIGHT BLADE, AND THE BULL. WITH SUCH A HOLD, THE FRONT SIGHT IS NOT OBSCURED OR LOST, AGAINST THE BLACK BULLSEYE. THE GOAL IN BULLSEYE IS TO PUT ROUNDS IN THE X RING, USING THE 6 O'CLOCK HOLD.......

IF YOU WISH TO TAKE A CONSERVATIVE APPROACH, START WITH A TARGET AT 7 YDS. ONCE YOU APPEAR TO BE ZEROED AT THAT DISTANCE, YOU CAN MOVE OUT TO 25 YDS. YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED SOME FURTHER ADJUSTMENT---BUT AT LEAST YOU SHOULD HAVE AN ACTUAL GROUP, SOMEWHERE ON THE PAPER.....

REMEMBER THAT IN HUNTING AND SELF DEFENSE, THE 6 O'CLOCK HOLD IS NOT APPLICABLE. THE POI SHOULD CORRESPOND EXACTLY TO THE POA. ONCE ZEROED FOR BULLSEYE, MAKING THE TRANSITION TO A SD OR HUNTING SIGHT SETTING, SHOULD ONLY REQUIRE A FEW CLICKS OF ELEVATION SCREW ADJUSTMENT. THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR A CHANGE IN BULLET WEIGHT, OR VELOCITY.....

TAKE YOUR TIME, AND GOOD LUCK ! ! !

BTW--MY 2 1/2", M686+ IS CAPABLE OF REMARKABLE ACCURACY@ 50', AND 25 YDS. I SAW A FEW YOUTUBE FLICS OF JERRY M, HITTING TARGETS AT OUTRAGEOUS DISTANCES, WITH SHORT BARRELED HANDGUNS. IT PROVES TO ME, THAT A PROPERLY MANUFACTURED REVOLVER, IS CAPABLE OF ACCURACY, MUCH BETTER THAN MOST OF US CAN ACHIEVE. IN OTHER WORDS, MOST OF THEM SHOOT BETTER THAN, MOST OF US CAN HOLD THEM..............
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:03 PM
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The S&W 327PC is a revolver with fixed sights.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
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The S&W 327PC is a revolver with fixed sights.
OMG, I WAS UNAWARE OF THAT. THE REMARKS THAT I MADE ABOUT SIGHT ADJUSTMENTS HAVE NO BEARING IN THIS INSTANCE......

I HAVE NO INTEREST IN FIXED SIGHT REVOLVERS. EVEN MY 642-1, WEARS FULLY ADJUSTABLE CRIMSON TRACE, LG-405, LASER GRIPS. PERHAPS THIS COULD BE A SOLUTION TO YOUR PROBLEM.....

IIRC, THERE IS SOME AXIOM AFLOAT THAT S&W REVOLVERS SHOOT POI TO POA, WITH A CERTAIN WEIGHT BULLET, AT A CERTAIN, PREDETERMINED RANGE. HOPEFULLY SOMEONE WITH MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN MYSELF, ABOUT SUCH MATTERS, WILL ADVISE.....

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED, BUT I'M GLAD THAT ITS NOT MY GUN. TO SPEND A SIZABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND EXPOSE MYSELF TO FRUSTRATION AND DISAPPOINTMENT, IS NOT MY IDEA OF FUN, AND NOT WHY I GOT INTO THE SHOOTING GAME.....

BY WAY OF SHOWING EMPATHY, IN MY 60 YEARS OF SHOOTING, I MADE A SIMILAR BLUNDER. I PURCHASED A WALTHER PPK/S, IN STAINLESS STEEL, IMPORTED BY INTERARMS. IT WAS NOT CHEAP, BUT IT WAS BEAUTIFUL. IT CAME WITH A TEST TARGET, SHOWING A 3 ROUND GROUP, LOW AND RIGHT. THAT GROUP MUST HAVE BEEN SHOT AT VERY CLOSE RANGE, JUST FAR ENOUGH AWAY TO PREVENT POWDER BURNS ON THE PAPER. I COULD NOT HIT THE SIDE OF A BARN, FROM INSIDE THE BARN......

AT THE TIME, I WAS MAINTAINING A RESPECTABLE AVERAGE IN THE 280s IN A .45ACP, BULLSEYE LEAGUE. ON TOP OF IT ALL. IT BIT THE WEB OF MY HAND WITH ITS SHARP EDGES, TO THE POINT OF BLEEDING, AFTER A FEW MAGS OF AMMO. I SOLD THE GUN, AFTER ABOUT A MONTH, AT A LOSS, AND NEVER PURCHASED ANOTHER GUN WITH FIXED SIGHTS. NONE OF MY SHOOTING, WAS EVER DONE, AT A HUMAN TORSO, ACROSS A CARD TABLE......
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