|
|
04-28-2018, 01:40 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
Trigger problem? Performance Center 629
I just came home with a brand new Performance Center 629 with 2.6" barrel. The store wasn't very keen on dry firing it so that had to wait until I got home. When I did try to dry fire it in double action the trigger stuttered a few times not fully cocking the hammer and then it jammed up completely for a minute. It unjammed and I tried it in single action a few times and it worked perfectly. Tried again in double action and it has been fine. I've dry fired it about 100 times since without issue.
Do you guys think that it may have acted funny from sitting for a while? The box had a lot of dust on it. Or is this going to be an issue?
BTW, I thought maybe the internal lock might have been partially engaged so I did lock and unlock it just to be sure after it stuttered.
Last edited by presspics; 04-28-2018 at 01:43 PM.
|
04-28-2018, 01:55 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Denver area
Posts: 6,250
Likes: 20,283
Liked 13,114 Times in 4,177 Posts
|
|
No. It’s trigger issues have nothing to do with it sitting around.
Sad that your new gun may well need to go in for warranty work, but if it were mine, it’d be on the way.
Last edited by Rpg; 04-28-2018 at 02:00 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-28-2018, 01:57 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 509
Likes: 6
Liked 787 Times in 294 Posts
|
|
First I would never spend a dime at a shop that wouldn't let me dry fire a $1K gun before I took it home. But as far as the trigger, I would dry fire the hell out of it and see if the problem occurs again. If it remains 100% I wouldn't worry about it. If it does show the same issues again I would call S&W ask for a shipping label and have them check it out. But it might have had a tiny burr that is now gone, or wasn't properly indexed. Hard to say with it only happening the one time.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-28-2018, 02:12 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,874
Likes: 7,481
Liked 8,136 Times in 3,679 Posts
|
|
It could be the Performance Centers new Stagable trigger, I was reading about how you could "stage" it during double action shooting, pressing the trigger back to a "stage" then sighting before the final on the trigger fires the gun ? I have read of shooters who shoot this way, I never thought much of it and would just pull through in DA mode. I wonder if this "staging Trigger" is in the performance centers 629 and might be the problem.
Gary
Last edited by gwpercle; 04-28-2018 at 02:13 PM.
|
04-28-2018, 02:20 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
Never heard of a staging trigger.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-28-2018, 03:08 PM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,501
Liked 13,614 Times in 4,291 Posts
|
|
Might have been some congealed oil that had to get broken loose. Might lube the internals. Can't hurt, might help.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-28-2018, 03:32 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 448
Likes: 379
Liked 396 Times in 164 Posts
|
|
I now take apart new guns (no matter the brand) and clean them very good before shooting them. One of my 69's was pretty gritty inside. If you are not comfortable doing that you can probably still just shoot it and be fine from here out. If it continues then I would send it in.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-29-2018, 01:24 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
It could be the Performance Centers new Stagable trigger, I was reading about how you could "stage" it during double action shooting, pressing the trigger back to a "stage" then sighting before the final on the trigger fires the gun ? I have read of shooters who shoot this way, I never thought much of it and would just pull through in DA mode. I wonder if this "staging Trigger" is in the performance centers 629 and might be the problem.
Gary
|
When not combat shooting a full cylinder at a steel silhouette plate at 10 yards... I shoot exactly as you describe "The Stage"... which is 90% of the time to be precise. I've been doing it since I was 20 years old. And after 20 years of practice I'd wager to say that I'm damned good at it. I do this with both of my 77' and 78' year of manufactured "J" frames, my Colt "D" frame, and for the last 6-7 months with my 629 "N" frame. I've not heard of the "New Stage-able Trigger" trigger PC offers. It must make staging even easier! I'm intrigued!!!
As to the OP's problem/question... Personally, I'd pull the grips off and put that revolver on my gun-bench, take the yoke and side plate screws off, pull the side plate, and have a thorough looksee. But I'm comfortable with the internals of "J" and "N" frame Smiths and have upgraded cylinder stops, triggers, hammers, and lock deletes though. I'm inclined to believe something has/had a burr on it; or, that damned ridiculous Hillary Hole/Lock was partially engaged. If you are not comfortable in pulling the side plate then I would 100% send it back to Smith with a full detail as to what happened. A lot of people that buy the Performance Center Smith 629's... buy them for self defense while in the great outdoors; where bears and other dangerous animals pose a significant threat.
If you bought it just as a range revolver (absolutely nothing wrong with that), then just put a healthy mix of a hundred rounds or so of .44Special and .44Mags over the next couple range sessions. It's likely any burrs will be polished out and see if the problem rears it's head again. Regardless, pick up some A-Zoom CNC made Aluminum Snap Caps for you 629 and dry fire the snot out of it, (while exercising safety of course.) I find most of the time a trigger upgrade isn't needed after 500 or so dry fires and/or live fire pulls. A thousand pulls is even better. Mine has about 500 rounds and probably 2000 dry fire pulls and the trigger in both single and double is exceptionally good.
Post pics of your new beauty. I love my 3" 629 "Deluxe" as it's my dedicated woods gun loaded with 300gr SJFP pills @ 1100+fps; and I'm carrying it more and more around town stoked with 200grain Gold Dot .44Specials. Hands down, it's the most versatile pistol & caliber I own and it has become my favorite revolver. I hope you get yours straitened out. Smith has some awesome customer service from my own experience with them!
Pics of my old woods gun... Smith 625 in .45ACP/" .45Super" The above 629 replaced the 625. .45Super loaded warm with lead hard cast semi wadcutters are good... but they don't hold a candle compared to a full house .44Magnum against thick pelted predators!
Last edited by HamHands; 04-29-2018 at 01:39 PM.
Reason: Added Pics
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-29-2018, 02:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
I've been dry firing the snot out of it. It hasn't done it again. I'll get it to the range and put it through it's paces.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-29-2018, 02:47 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Monroeville, Ohio,USA
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 859
Liked 6,271 Times in 1,570 Posts
|
|
Staging the trigger!
To the OP Dry firing is the best way to smooth up a trigger pull, using snap caps with the new type firing pins! I would guess you had a burr inside which hindered the movement of the hammer or trigger! If it occurs again, send it back!
If you understand the trigger function in DA you will understand the benefit of staging the trigger in ANY competition involving speed. When you press the trigger the first slight movement unlatches the cylinder, starts rotating the cylinder, starts to compress the trigger rebound slide spring, and moves the hammer rearward against the main spring. All these actions produce resistance to the trigger movement until you reach the stop on the trigger return slide with the spring in full compression. At this point the main spring is the major resistance and you have reached the staging point which you hold until you are ready to fire the round. The lighter the trigger rebound slide spring is the easier it is to feel the staging point. But, too light and the trigger will not reset properly! As mentioned above, IT TAKES MANY YEARS OF PRACTICE TO MASTER THE ART OF STAGING! ! !
jcelect
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-29-2018, 04:48 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by presspics
I've been dry firing the snot out of it. It hasn't done it again. I'll get it to the range and put it through it's paces.
|
Good man, that's what any new Smith needs to mesh/synch up the trigger contact surfaces as it polishes them the more you pull the trigger. Snap caps and a little patience/dry firing will really do wonders in my experience. The new/newer Smiths are actually much better than I was told/warned about. I used to have the mindset that for a Smith, it has to be Vintage and certainly nothing with a Lock/HH in the frame. I finally took a chance on that 625 last year and more recently on the 629 and am so glad I did! The Hillary Hole is an easy fix and now I have quality, both Vintage and New Production Smiths.
Your problem was probably that someone had the key out; maybe messing with the lock and simply didn't rotate the key to unlock ALL THE WAY off.
Post some pics of your new 629. Imgur.com is a great pic host!
|
04-29-2018, 04:53 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcelect
To the OP Dry firing is the best way to smooth up a trigger pull, using snap caps with the new type firing pins! I would guess you had a burr inside which hindered the movement of the hammer or trigger! If it occurs again, send it back!
If you understand the trigger function in DA you will understand the benefit of staging the trigger in ANY competition involving speed. When you press the trigger the first slight movement unlatches the cylinder, starts rotating the cylinder, starts to compress the trigger rebound slide spring, and moves the hammer rearward against the main spring. All these actions produce resistance to the trigger movement until you reach the stop on the trigger return slide with the spring in full compression. At this point the main spring is the major resistance and you have reached the staging point which you hold until you are ready to fire the round. The lighter the trigger rebound slide spring is the easier it is to feel the staging point. But, too light and the trigger will not reset properly! As mentioned above, IT TAKES MANY YEARS OF PRACTICE TO MASTER THE ART OF STAGING! ! !
jcelect
|
Solid post! And a good visual explanation of the DA trigger system. I learned how to stage a revolver trigger on a 85% Vintage Colt "D" framed "Agent". I still have it in great condition and am teaching my wife how to do the same as it's her CCW piece.
|
04-29-2018, 04:57 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
Here she is..
Last edited by presspics; 04-29-2018 at 04:59 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-29-2018, 09:31 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
The joy didn’t last long. It happened 3 times in a row a little while ago. I’ll be calling S&W tomorrow. I’m also noticing that the flag for the internal lock keeps moving up to the halfway point during dry firing. I don’t know if that flag is supposed to be that loose so that may not be related. None the less it’s a new gun so I’m not going to open it up to look.
What a drag
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-30-2018, 08:34 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by presspics
The joy didn’t last long. It happened 3 times in a row a little while ago. I’ll be calling S&W tomorrow. I’m also noticing that the flag for the internal lock keeps moving up to the halfway point during dry firing. I don’t know if that flag is supposed to be that loose so that may not be related. None the less it’s a new gun so I’m not going to open it up to look.
What a drag
|
S&W Customer Service will NOT disappoint. They will issue a RMA# and they pay shipping both ways. Despite what we think about Springfield Armory these days... they are the only company that rivals S&W in the Customer Service department and both are something that all in the industry should strive to be. You'll have it back within 2 weeks or sooner OP. That darn lock just might be the problem if you notice the flag jumping under recoil. The first thing I do to a new Smith is snatch that lil' b@stard out and put in an Original Precision lock delete. Let us know how Smith takes care of you; I'm betting you end up loving that beaut once it's back from S&W!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-30-2018, 09:21 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 448
Likes: 379
Liked 396 Times in 164 Posts
|
|
Sorry to hear that. They will fix it but it still sucks. Happens to much these days. Not just Smith & Wesson.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-30-2018, 10:10 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Western USA
Posts: 731
Likes: 902
Liked 514 Times in 261 Posts
|
|
That’s too bad that the problem reoccurred. I was wondering, does it happen when you’re dry firing rapidly? I can’t describe it as well as jecelecet above but sometimes if you dry fire too quickly, the trigger doesn’t have time to reset and can produce a jammed up condition. So the problem possibly might not be your gun but your trigger technique. Slow down and make sure you are letting the trigger reset before initiating the next pull. What do they say: Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
BTW I have the same gun, tried to post a picture but it seems the forum is having a problem right now. I sure love my gun and fortunately never had any problems with it. Actually I think it’s great.
__________________
Accuracy supercedes Speed
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-01-2018, 07:17 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
It could be my technique. I've been a 1911 shooter for more than 30 years and haven't owned a revolver in about 15 years. I'll try it out at the range for a bit. No rush in sending it off since it's not in the carry rotation.
|
05-01-2018, 07:27 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Steel City
Posts: 2,158
Likes: 6,840
Liked 4,405 Times in 1,409 Posts
|
|
I've had the side plate off at least a dozen new S&Ws in the last 6 months and each one of them was bone dry inside. You don't mention lubing the internals but a little Ballistol sure wouldn't hurt a thing. I've seen non returning triggers and rough actions in more than a few of these guns and the cause in never anything visible to the naked eye just some roughness from the EDM machining process. If it was mine I would send it in for the master revolver action package. I think paying a few dollars would insure that the gun comes back as good as humanly possible.
|
05-01-2018, 07:59 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Live Free or Die
Posts: 411
Likes: 52
Liked 110 Times in 64 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by series guy
I've had the side plate off at least a dozen new S&Ws in the last 6 months and each one of them was bone dry inside. You don't mention lubing the internals but a little Ballistol sure wouldn't hurt a thing. I've seen non returning triggers and rough actions in more than a few of these guns and the cause in never anything visible to the naked eye just some roughness from the EDM machining process. If it was mine I would send it in for the master revolver action package. I think paying a few dollars would insure that the gun comes back as good as humanly possible.
|
Some people have suggested burrs in the action. You are suggesting a Performance Center trigger job... This is a Performance Center gun.. Am I misunderstanding what that means? I assume that it is hand fit and has the best trigger job that they can offer...I mean, that's why I went for a Performance Center gun over a standard assembly line gun.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-01-2018, 09:38 AM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,501
Liked 13,614 Times in 4,291 Posts
|
|
The only thing you get with PC guns is a special shaped barrel and maybe some laser engraving. Even if it did have their action job, it wouldn't be significantly better than without it. The only hand fitting is due to someone assembling the parts. Still, these are the best affordable revolver currently available. They have the potential to be truly amazing.
Last edited by Protocall_Design; 05-01-2018 at 09:40 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-02-2018, 03:43 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Highlands, North Carolina
Posts: 1,522
Likes: 2,096
Liked 2,202 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy
The only thing you get with PC guns is a special shaped barrel and maybe some laser engraving. Even if it did have their action job, it wouldn't be significantly better than without it. The only hand fitting is due to someone assembling the parts. Still, these are the best affordable revolver currently available. They have the potential to be truly amazing.
|
As ToolGuy states OP... A PC revo gets just a little more TLC.
I don't think there is a problem with your trigger technique and pulling the trigger too fast as mentioned above. Ever hear of a guy by the name of Jerry Miculek? If pulling a Smith trigger was ever too fast Mr. Miculek would be the one to find out! He's got an Automatic Finger!
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|