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  #51  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:41 PM
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Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??  
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In the late ‘70’s I tried different reloads looking for the most accurate round for my 6” barreled colt Python. The 125 through 158gr the JHP.
My most accurate load out to 100 yds with the 6” barrel was the Speer 140gr JHP bullets using 2400 powder. In my police service six With the 2 3/4” barrel I carry the 140gr jhp’s. It’s my only snubby revolver.

I’m not fond of short barrels but my s&w m58/4” barrel is gaining popularity with me.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:46 PM
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Nothing wrong with 357 Magnum ammo in a snub nose revolver if.....
you can handle the extra noise, heavier recoil, extra muzzle flip and
extra time to get back on target for your 2nd shot if needed.

I saw a slow motion camera on the snub .357 with a magnum loading
and it showed the recoil, muzzle flip, the rising of the weapon in the shooter's hold
and what surprised me, was the hammer actually going backwards from its fired position as to re-cock...........
from the amount of forces brought into the act of firing.

The cylinder flash, muzzle flash and bullet exit was........ neat.

However the 38 +P is also nice for many.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:56 PM
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It's my opinion that the only things you will gain in a .357 J-frame snubby are vicious recoil and longer recovery time for any follow-up shots that might be needed.

My favorite lightweight J-frame Centennials are .38 Specials. I shoot target wadcutters in them for practice, followed by a few +P stompers. I doubt that a bad guy hit with a +P .38 instead of a .357 would know the difference, and inasmuch as shot placement counts more than power, the .38s will be easier to control.



If you really have to have a snubby S&W revolver in .357, I would strongly suggest getting a K-frame Model 19 or a Model 66. They are heavier, controlling recoil better, and offer the advantage of a 6th shot. With the right holster, stocks and covering garment, they are not all that hard to carry discreetly.

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  #54  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:03 PM
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Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalapombu View Post
Quite a few were saying that since the barrel is as short as it is the 357mag doesn't have enough barrel to achieve its ideal velocity and therefore you are better off using a good 38 Special load with less recoil for better and more accurate follow up shots.

I don't know if that's true or not.
According to Ballistics by the Inch, the .357 gets almost twice the ft lbs of energy over the .38 from a 2 1/2 inch barrel.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:10 PM
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There are a select few that just cannot handle that fact..and shout from the hilltops "38 and 357 are the same in a snub" Its a real eye opener when they touch a .357 off in a snub after a couple of 38+p's....I can understand not wanting more power than special in a snub...but for those who do...
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:43 PM
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If I was unfortunate enough to ever be in a defensive situation, I'd be glad I had a Ruger Standard loaded with 22LR.

But when I do carry my 357 snub it's always loaded with 38 wadcutters.
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  #57  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:50 PM
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Just a caution, the big difference is noise and hearing loss from the 357 over the 38 and +P loads. Range practice is one thing with hearing protection, but without - a few rounds of 357 can have lasting damage. I recommend double hearing protection with the 357 (I use always).
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  #58  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:35 PM
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Groo here
I can't take it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To all those who worry about fast second shots STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your first shot is the most important one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We [ non cops] only hit 30% of the time.......
Stop shooting faster , start hitting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you Shoot "in the middle" few of you will HIT any slower
with a magnum over a special.
Your not shooting a "wonder 9" with lots of shells and a recoil
absorbing action and light trigger.
You are shooting a trigger cocking revolver [12lb +-]
And few can work that trigger AND hit the target at speed.
The guns just will not work that fast.[even if you work the trigger
as you come down from the kick]
I am coming to the realization that the single action revolver
might be a better action [ when used correctly] with more hits
than a double action.
It is safer,don't cock it till you NEED it, it is more accurate,good trigger,
easier to hit with ,points well, and most start with 327 or 357 mag rounds or bigger.
With such guns, "one in the middle" will at least cause the bad dude
to pause and reconsider.[allowing you to "hit them again" if needed..]
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  #59  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:29 PM
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Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??  
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I had a 642 for about a year. Put about a 1,000 rounds through it. Shot it well with light range fodder. But when I loaded heavier, it really bit my wee little bony hand.

I turned it into a 649 and never looked back. I don’t run full magnums, but handloads that are tailored to my ability are similar in power, or so they feel, to Rem Golden Saber 125s.

The extra weight makes all the difference for me.

My next purchase will most likely be a K frame snub, maybe that ported 19 that just came out? But then I see a recessed 19 like edmo’s and realize that is what I want. And for the $1,000+ that new 19 will go for, I can buy a really sweet old one.

I have considered the 69 2.75”, as I just love my 4.25” 69, but my 220 compact talks me out of it every time.

All that said, I don’t feel under gunned with stout 38s, as a back up.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:47 AM
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Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??  
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I’ve been a range officer for the last 25 years and get the opportunity to shoot a LOT. As such, recoil from the .357’s in J frames doesn’t bother me too much and I will gladly trade the increased muzzle blast and flash for the increase in performance. I have done a lot of testing with ballistic gel and most of the .38 special loads just do not expand out of a 2” barrel, even a lot of the plus P’s. That being said, everyone should carry what they are most confident at getting first rounds on the target with. As has been said before, a hit with a .38 beats a miss with a .44 every time.

The two J frames that I carry most often are my 640 Pro loaded with Remington 125 grain .357 Golden Sabers and my model 60 with the lug barrel loaded with 135 grain Speer .357 Short Barrel Gold Dot. After extensive testing I settled on these loads for these particular revolvers as they hit to the point of aim and shot the best groups at 20 yards out of their respective guns.

As an aside, being 60 my eyes don’t pick up those tiny J frame sights as well as they once did. I have replaced the front sights on both with an XS Big Dot sight with the tritium insert. Not the best choice for shooting tiny little groups but at 5-10 yards just place that big white dot in the center of a B-27 or bad guy’s chest and squeeze the trigger. I do a lot of camping and it is a comforting feeling to be in a tent and look over beside your sleeping bag at night and see that glowing green dot as a night light!
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:52 PM
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I had a "Lady Smith" and didn't like it. The LGS owner had stainless 640 and I fell in love with it. Not to long after that I had him order me a 640 PRO. I had a action job done and installed a set of Pach's. The grips made all the difference in the world! I shoot .357 mags no problem. IMHO .357 mag in a .357 revolver.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:58 PM
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I simply can't handle +P in my 642. Tears my thumb up.

So I shoot regular .38 special. Plain 130 gr FMJ flat nose. It's actually fun to shoot.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
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I simply can't handle +P in my 642. Tears my thumb up.

So I shoot regular .38 special. Plain 130 gr FMJ flat nose. It's actually fun to shoot.
Absolutely-same here !! And in a social confrontation that .38 spec. is all you'll ever need. The "hand cannon" crowd need to carry a Desert Eagle in .50 cal. And in an IWB holster
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
I carry .357 Silvertips in my nickel 19-3. They kick more because they are more powerful than .38 Specials. If the short barrel neutered them down to .38 level, they would kick the same, right?

I’ve read shooting reports where these old fashioned Silvertips worked just fine out of 2 1/2” and 3” barrels. Plus, they look cool.

Silver Tips... are so underrated for what they were/are. Hell, I'd still carry them if I had a stash of them. They remind me a whole hellofalot of the Winchester Ranger-T's that I sometimes do carry in my CZ "P-01" in 9mm... in how they group and how they I perform I must admit! Another "oldie but STILL goodie"... Remington Golden Sabers in heavy for caliber loads in 9mm, and especially in .45ACP's...
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:45 PM
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I thought this thread was going to die the death it richly deserves. Please, please, .38SPL adovcates, STOP. You cannot make a case that any .38SPL load is anywhere near as effective as a .357, to try to do so involves smoke and mirrors.

I'm no Jerry Michulek but I can make pretty quick COM hits with my 3" barreled SP101 which chronographs over 1300 fps/600 ft lbs using Buffalo Bore 158gr JHPs. A universe ahead of any .38 SPL.

Odds of ever using a gun for self defense are very slim, use the best in the event you ever need to protect yourself, .38SPL isn't it. Don
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock View Post
I simply can't handle +P in my 642. Tears my thumb up.

So I shoot regular .38 special. Plain 130 gr FMJ flat nose. It's actually fun to shoot.
That's worse than the old police lead .38SPL which had a terribly poor record and that's with a longer barrel.

Try a heavier revolver and at least use +Ps, that 1.875" barrel further kills the ballistic performance of the round. Don
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:50 PM
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Absolutely-same here !! And in a social confrontation that .38 spec. is all you'll ever need. The "hand cannon" crowd need to carry a Desert Eagle in .50 cal. And in an IWB holster
Funny, not. Believe your own version of reality. My 3" barreled SP101 is a pocket rocket but quite concealable and vastly more effective. Don
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Old 05-19-2018, 07:57 AM
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If it starts with a “3”, and there can be only one gun or shots fired, and if the muzzle of the Snubby is in the mouth of a large carnivore, herbivore or non-carbon life form..... we will pray it ends in “57 MAGNUM”

A 460 S&W .....As Snubby as Possible.... would be going to Brown Bear country next week....... instead of a wee little 629 if LPS remembered we’d be shopping that day..... the 45LC made right!!!

Security Six 2 3/8” .... on land.
S&W 59 ....... on water.
Colt DS Snubby ..... BBQ
380’s ...... always
At minimum

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Old 05-19-2018, 10:59 AM
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That's worse than the old police lead .38SPL which had a terribly poor record and that's with a longer barrel.

Try a heavier revolver and at least use +Ps, that 1.875" barrel further kills the ballistic performance of the round. Don
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:02 AM
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I thought this thread was going to die the death it richly deserves. Please, please, .38SPL adovcates, STOP. You cannot make a case that any .38SPL load is anywhere near as effective as a .357, to try to do so involves smoke and mirrors.

I'm no Jerry Michulek but I can make pretty quick COM hits with my 3" barreled SP101 which chronographs over 1300 fps/600 ft lbs using Buffalo Bore 158gr JHPs. A universe ahead of any .38 SPL.

Odds of ever using a gun for self defense are very slim, use the best in the event you ever need to protect yourself, .38SPL isn't it. Don
If you want to stop a bad guy, use a rifle or shotgun.

Inadequate is inadequate. There's no such thing as less inadequate.
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:34 AM
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If you want to stop a bad guy, use a rifle or shotgun.

Inadequate is inadequate. There's no such thing as less inadequate.
Inadequate is what you determine. I don't think your post is very well articulated. My S&W 500 Mag with 385 gr @ 1800fps is certainly way more adequate but not much of a CCW gun. I think a .25ACP is inadequate for example.

The SP101 I refer to is more potent than any other reasonable gun I can think of.

Think of Clint Smith. His words like "If I thought I'd get into a gun fight, I'd stay at home, if I am in a gun fight I want a rifle." or words to that effect. Don

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Old 05-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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Yeah, I don’t carry a wheel gun but if I did, it would be an SP101.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:05 PM
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Not as much of a gain as practicing a lot, & hitting where you want. IF you already do, & can, then YES! EXACTLY how much of a gain from a snub at bad breath range, using the same quality bullets??? Dead is dead in my book.
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:47 PM
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Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ?? Snubbies....Do You Gain Anything by Jumping Up to 357mag over 38 Special and +P ??  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SC
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NRA says that over 99% of conflicts - millions of them - where a firearm is presented are ended, without shots being fired.

In other words, it's 100 times more important to have a gun than what caliber it is.

Additionally, I prefer to carry a cartridge that I can handle. A .357 for me would be a single-shot.
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