Guy's/Gal's
I have not had a S&W in a long time. I am really a Ruger man. I do have the BG380 (that I Love). Anyway I was nosing at the gun shop today and saw a used 617-6 in the case for $585.00. I have always wanted a 617 but never had the money at the time. My Ruger Single Six Hunter is a very accurate revolver for me, even if it is a convertible. But Ruger Single Six has the little larger barrel bore so they can also shoot magnum rounds. So they are not the pin point shooters like the Mark series.
Anyway I picked the 617 up and very excited about it. I will get it to the range tomorrow (5-12-2018) and see how accurate I am with it. Can't wait. Pictures to follow.

You won't be disappointed. Might cut down on your Ruger single action buying though. Enjoy and let us know how it shoots.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Congratulations on your new Model 617-6! What barrel length did you get?

__________________
Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Yeah, I think you will like the 617. When I was shopping for a .22 revolver, I looked at the SP101 & GP100 versions, but the trigger pull and hammer cocking force was terrible. I handled a 617-6 (4") and it was a night & day difference, so the credit card came out for the 617. I also have a Ruger MK3 to complete the semi-auto & revolver platforms in .22LR.

I regularly use my 6" 617-6 in steel plate competitions and as a woods companion. I actually enjoy it more than my 4" model 10 & 4" model 686. You're gonna love your "new" 617!

Since you're a Ruger man I'm surprised you didn't get the GP100 but you'll be glad you got the 617, my GP100 had many quality issues. My GP is now smooth after rework but the 617's have a shorter DA trigger pull and is faster for steel plates.

Enjoy your new 617.

Attached Images

	4and6_800x600.jpg (261.2 KB, 97 views)
	Both_dots.jpg (205.9 KB, 96 views)

Nice pickup! Looking forward to your range report and pixs.

I am a S&W guy with over 30+ S&W revolvers. For some reason when I wanted a 6” barrel .22 I went with the GP100. It was a mess. It had so many mechanical issues Ruger had to scrap it when I sent it in for a ton of warranty work. It wasn’t even worth trying to repair. I then purchased a 6” 617. As with the rest of my Smiths, it’s an excellent revolver. You will be very happy with your purchase.

You are going to love your 617. It's now my favorite gun to take to the range and to shoot Steel Challenge with. I'm actually faster and more accurate with the 617.

Test ammo and get what shoots 100 % in your gun. I like Federal first followed by CCI-SV, Mini Mags and Blazer. Other ammo works but I can count on these being the most consistent.

There is nothing wrong with a 617-6. The safety hole is just that, a safety lock, just forget it. Mine seems to like standard velocity CCI the best, but shoots anything better than a lot of guns. You will enjoy it.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Well Guy's,
I took her out to the range this morning and all I took with her was Remington Tunderbolts (yes I know, terrible). The revolver could have been a shotgun. No patterns what so ever. So I put it up went to town and bought some M22 Winchester. That was a lot better but still not much for grouping, even off a rest.
I did notice that I was getting shavings hitting my left shoulder and my left check. So I believe that I will contact S&W on Monday and see if they will fix it. My forcing cone looks terrible and you can see that it is caked with lead on the face of it and on the frame beside the forcing cone.
Kinda of disappointed, I bought a S&W 686 (ordered it and when it came in at the LGS) the barrel was clocked. Sent it back and bought a GP100 instead. Thought that I would give S&W another chance, I have always wanted a 617, so I jumped on this one. Love the pistol, so I believe that I will let S&W try and fix it. We will see what they say.

Might try a good cleaning and some CCI/federal ammo before sending it back.

No..... I'm quite certain your new 617 is fine... You chose two of the worse ammo to try in your new gun for starters.

I wouldn't shoot Winchester M22 & Remington Thunderbolt thru my pistols even if it was given to me for free. And don't even waste your money on Winchester Western white box. Winchester Super X is good stuff as well as Remington Golden Bullets. Federal Automatch is also IMO the best bang for the buck.

I use my 6" 617 weekly in local outdoor steel plate matches... Your pistol is going to get dirty... real dirty. The lead caking on the forcing cone & elsewhere is normal. You're going to get dirty cleaning it, but that is the nature of 22 shooting; they're just plain dirty. Use a stiff nylon brush such as the ones used to clean AR15's, a bottle of Hoppes #9 and some Rem Oil. Use a Xacto knife to clean out the lead caking above the forcing cone on the frame. And use a bronze bore brush and scrub the bore and never use Thunderbolts or Winchester M22 ever again unless you hate the gun.

Again. what you describe is perfectly normal when shooting very dirty subpar ammo in a 617.

I have a Ruger Single Six Hunter that will shoot all that and more. I do not want the pistol for match grade shooting. I have TC Contender for that and precision rifles for that also. I can shoot my Ruger Hunter and never get the splattering that I receive from this pistol. I am actually thinking about redoing the forcing cone with the 11 degree. I figured that would probably help it the most.
But if that is normal for a premium revolver thanks for letting me know. But that is disappointing. I also used some SV ammo yesterday, not CCI ( I use that on my target pistols and rifles) and still got spatters on my shoulder and cheek. Can't believe the S&W should do that.

So what is the thought from everyone else?

Targetchief,
Thanks, the pistol was clean when I took it out.

You should not be getting splatter from the forcing cone. If you are call S&W for a return and have them fix it. I bought the .22 forcing cone cutter from Brownells and did a couple of guns with it. I also have the cutter for .38s and did a few guns which made the tool worth the money for me.

Thanks AzShooter.
I found a place on the internet where you can rent the whole cutter and bushings for $30.00. Do the job and then send it back to them. I will probably let S&W do the work but if they bulk at it I will rent the cutter and do it my self. AZ, how far did you go down with the cutter. I have never done it or even checked on it as of yet so I am wondering do you go half way approximately or do you go till you can barely feel it touch the rifling ?

I had issues with my 617. Clocked barrel, could not adjust sights enough for windage or elevation. Returned for repairs.

While I was waiting I bought a GP 100 22. While the double action trigger is not as good as the 617, it is not that bad. I like the balance and sights better on the Ruger . Accuracy is similar.

When I got the 617 back, about 3 weeks no charge,barrel was straight. Rear sight was replaced and old one returned. And though I can't prove it I swear they smoothed the action.

I would call and send it back. If you decide you want the Ruger ,the GP100 is also a good revolver.

Thanks lunger.
Az if I do I see they make a gauge to check the proper depth

Yes, the gauge is very important to make sure you don't go too far.

Far be it from me to just bash a product for fun but... in this case... I've had the same exact experience with Ruger products, to a "T" so to speak. I'm a Smith & Colt man for revolvers and a CZ/Dan Wesson and Springfield 1911 man, (despite how we feel about Springer with their dumb political move). It's simply not worth it to me to try and save a few bucks to deal with the aforementioned bulls#!t that goes along with Ruger, Rossi, or Taurus ever again. Life is simply too short. YMMV.

I am not bashing S&W, all companies have their problems. But I have only had to send one Ruger back for a sight problem, back in my hands exactly 7 days after shipping it to them. I purchased a new 686 from my LGS, when it came in the barrel was clocked so bad the front sight was cocked. Now this revolver. All I am really saying is that it is disappointing to buy a premium revolver in .22 and it comes like it did. I will give them a chance to fix it. I am sure they will. If not I will re-crown the forcing cone my self and or trade it in on a different .22 letting the LGS know why I am trading it back in. It will be the same LGS that I bought it from. I do a lot of business there.
I like S&W, especially auto's. I have just always been drawn to the Ruger revolvers. I hope this one works out. I really like this revolver and it is the first 10 round revolver I have ever purchased. Keeping my fingers crossed.

If you decide to trade it back in do not do any work to it. Let the LGS know why you want to trade it in and you will get a better price then if you try to fix it.

I vote for sending it back to Smith with a detailed note and don't clean a thing off of that forcing cone or cylinder face. The lead build up alone and it's location will show anyone worth half their salt whether the forcing cone needs to be re-crowned or it's a cylinder timing issue, or a combination of the two. If you call them this morning; you'll have an RMA tag and have it sent out by tomorrow. If so, you'll have her back in a week, 10 days at the latest. And I'm betting it will be right!

Guy's/Gal's I just got done boxing it up for S&W. They were very friendly when I called today and sent me a return paid shipping label. The things that I listed wrong with the gun are as follows.
1. Splattering lead when shot, hitting my left cheek and left shoulder.
2. Rear Sight bottomed out and still hitting high at 25 yards.
3. Shot gunning instead of grouping. (I think this is due to the lead spitting)
4. A lot of lead build up on forcing cone and on frame around forcing cone.
5. No 11 degree chamfer on the forcing cone

FedEx is picking her up tomorrow, I hope the three to four weeks goes by really fast. Can not wait to get her back.

I am really looking forward to having a S&W revolver added back into my stables. It would make me proud to own a S&W that wil be an excellent shooter after everything is all worked out. I bet they will do it correctly. I can't wait.

My no-dash 8 3/8" barreled 617 was disappointing for about the first thousand rounds or so- the 4" 617 easily outshot it. But it's now stupidly accurate with ammo it likes. Just took a while for it to settle in, I guess. Had it almost 20 years now. Wouldn't swap it for anything else! I don't even shoot it competitively, just to ensure it retains it's 50yd squirrel getting zero.

While the gun is at S&W you can do the homework that you SHOULD HAVE DONE prior to buying it. The "build up" is NO SECRET, just an unfortunate fact of life for the 617-6 (anyway), probly other dash #'s as well. SOME suffer from cases getting stuck in "tight"/dirty cylinders, or crud build up around the top strap. If you keep on top of the cleaning, I imagine you will quickly become a big fan. A toothbrush/bronze brush are a must have in your range bag. ( in my 10-6) I begin to feel some cylinder drag around 2-300 rounds depending on the ammo used. MAYBE the timing is off and IS spitting lead, MAYBE it just needs a good cleaning??? Don't give up on it just yet. I'm a former Ruger guy too & my MKll target 4" bull bbl is on par accuracy wise with the 617, but the 617 is MUCH MORE enjoyable to shoot. YMMV

in all my 49 years of shooting and the last 23 yrs shooting competitively. This is exactly the reason why I won't buy used guns.

You guys need to understand that a rimfire revolver is not going to be spotless in every aspect after shooting it. The lead buildup on the top strap above the forcing cone is normal. Having a cylinder going tight/hard to close after shooting is normal, and a easy fix as simple as wiping the underside of the extractor star with your T-shirt. But we're sooo quick to pull out the hammer & chisel to "fix" something that isn't broke.

Guy's
Thanks for the advice on the studying that I should have done and that all 22's get dirty and lead building up on the top strap being normal. When I get it back it should not have any of those problems. If it does it will be out the door. I am not knocking S&W or saying Ruger is better. They both make good products. But I will say that my Ruger single six does not have any of these issues. If S&W being a premium revolver compared to a Blue Collar Ruger. It will not be staying around if it still has any of these problems. If you are use to revolvers having lead build up on the top strap like this one was showing than you do not know what a revolver should really be like. I never have to clean lead off my current 22 revolver, ever. Powder yes lead no.
I am really looking forward to getting this revolver back, and hope it meets my expectations. It will be at S&W tomorrow. Thursday 5-17-2018
RvShooter, yes revolvers in .22 get dirty. This is not my first revolver or by far my first .22. Spitting lead while shooting is not normal for a properly made revolver and having an 11 degree forcing cone should be normal for any revolver. This one has 0 degree forcing cone. Lead build up with a little over 50 rounds to the extent this one had was abnormal. Shooting competitions really don't mean a dang thing other than you shoot them. So you really don't know what is broke and what isn't. You are way to quick in judging other people that you don't know anything about. S&W will tell me if it is broke or normal and if it is normal than it will going out the door.

What exactly were you shooting at and at what distance? if you were shooting steel plates outdoors then it is not unusual to get hit on occasion by a lead fragment. especially if the plates were pitted. Are you sure that you weren't getting hit by lead fragments from the backstop? Because again, as someone who has competed from many years, I have lost blood from getting hit from bullet fragments on various parts of my body. I just came back home from a 22 steel plate match today. Guess what? me and 3 other guys were shooting 6" model 617's and you know what? All 4 revolvers have leading above the forcing cone, grit under the extractor star. Too much grit and the cylinder is hard to close, wipe the grit off with your T shirt and it's smooth as silk again. But there are some people out there that may not know this and feel that something is wrong with their revolver. Empties hard to extract? Run a bore snake down them and your good as gold again... Competition means experience my friend. I have seen these "issues" so many times it's not even funny.

Who told you that the forcing cone on a model 617 is supposed to be at 11°? where did yo get that from? You didn't even know about the leading above the forcing cone being normal for this pistol until you finally researched it and now all forcing cones should have a 11° bevel in them? I tell you what, I'll gladly buy your 617 from you when it comes back from S&W.

Well, IMO I'd wait & see what S&W has to say. Who knows what was being ricochet'd/spit, lead/steel/crud. The tight tolerances of the 617 make it a different animal from other 22's SO a different brand to brand D/A, S/A, SEMI is at best an apples to oranges comparison. With experience does come some knowledge, so to the OP I would just say to give the 617 a fair shake. I doubt you will loose $ selling it. It kinda sounds like you have already made your mind up on it. ALL THOSE 617 fans can't be wrong, Maybe you got a bad one, or just didn't know (yet) they need a bit more care & to be run clean???

RGVshooter,
I am not new to shooting. All my plates are angled down and I learned early in life to wait till they stop swinging before you shoot them again. If you are getting hit from you're steel plates with lead, then you should re-evaluate the way you and you're friends are shooting those steel plates and should add a few more so that they are finished swing before you shoot that plate again. I was shooting at 25 yards like I always shoot my plates. But I was also shooting paper and getting splatters from that also. My cylinder was not hard to open at all or I would have wiped the dirt from it. I know 22's are dirty but not with the first 20 rounds out of a gun that was clean when you started.
As for the 11 degree on the forcing cone, I looked at my other 22 pistol which I never get leading or splattered on from no matter how many rounds I shoot. It has the 11 degree. Plus I did read up on it. You know I am not just out of diapers either. I have a lot of experience with all kinds of guns. Smith & Wesson may not do a dang thing to it, which is fine. I will just probably get rid of it and buy my usual brand and move on. I hope not though. I hope they will fix it right so I do not get the spattering or the lead build up that it is getting. I would like to own a S&W and be proud of it. Not own one that you have a hard time hitting the barn door with and or get splattered on every time you pull the trigger.

My 617 is extremely accurate. I think I got more than my moneys worth. It allows me to plink empty 22cases at 15yd. Its cheating in competition. Doesnt spit lead either.
The chambers are tight however and its tough to eject 10 empties.

It would seem the Ruger forum might be a better fit. I've only shot steel challenge at 3 places, none of them had swinging plates, ranges were APP 13-18 yards and there was splatter at all 3, and those boys have been doing it for decades.

nachogrande

I do like Ruger, never ever have any problems with them. I did have to send one back for a rear sight that was not level.
Everyone has their favorite company. That does not mean I do not own other guns also. I am not a competitive shooter, I would not enjoy that what so ever. But I would never be shooting steel and have the targets splattering me. My plates start with 1' and I have seven of them that go down to 3". Just enjoy the competition against myself shooting them at 25 yards. If that is what they do at competitions, than that is what they do. You are correct in that they probably have been doing it a long time. But getting splatter just does not seem like a very good idea to me, but I am not a competition shooter. Buy the way I am hoping it works out. I really tend to keep her if things do. In fact I just purchased a set of wood grips for her. So I really believe that S&W will get her worked out.

3rdgeargrndrr,
That was a good video and a nice pair. Thanks for posting them.

OP I see you were also getting getting spattered when shooting paper. Maybe paper was too hard. It has to be something you are doing wrong because SW has never put out a revolver with a problem(sarcasm).

No company puts out perfect products every time. In my opinion what separates SW from others is their customer service. They will make it right,

I know from personal experience what it is like to drop $700 + on a 617 only to have to return it. It is upsetting. I bought the GP 100 22 while I was waiting. Give them a chance to make it right.

To those telling you to go to a different forum, ignore them. Your post was in no way bashing and last time checked there no rules against posting problems.

[QUOTE=jstanfield103;140041266]nachogrande

I am not a competitive shooter, I would not enjoy that what so ever.

But I would *** NEVER*** be shooting steel and have the targets splattering me. getting splatter just does not seem like a very good idea to me.

but I am not a competition shooter.

Pardon my picking apart your post.
I've had a bunch of things that I have said I would NEVER do or try, and ended up regretting it, for 1 reason or another. NEVER is a LONG TIME & nobody knows what the future holds, nor what you may like, until you try it. Splatter is a fact of life in steel challenge & It seems I've been hit "about" every time I've done it. Never has splatter caused any real pain, or made me bleed. As always mandatory eye/ear protection is a good idea. IMO if you want a gun you can shoot for a VERY long time, a Ruger MK series might be my 1st pick, horrible trigger and all, for that type of use the 617 MAY BE a bad choice FOR YOU. My first 617 (a 6" ) never had any issues with build up (within reason, cuz I don't let guns shoot 22's for 1,000's of rounds without at the very least a good brush out), the 4" 10-6 otoh does have build up @ around 2-300 rounds. IF this is your 1st 617, I'd suggest remaining calm, & PERHAPS LISTENING to others that have owned many 617's & for a longtime, until you hear from the Mothership. THEN decide if you want to head on down the road.

Boy, this is a tough crowd!! Sounds like they are on the peck!
Ed

nachogrande,
You are so correct when you say never is a long time. I use to be a firearms instructor and had to qualify people all the time. When I had to qualify I really never enjoyed it because of the constraints set. It is necessary constraints but was not fun for me. I enjoy going out on my own range and taking my Single Six Hunter and my Ruger Mark IV and shooting steel plates. Not for time or anything just for the relaxation and fun for me. I am really hoping that this 617 works out and can be my double action revolver at this kind of shooting. One day I may start shooting competively but at 55 years old probably will never try it.
My joy is just shooting all my guns. Mostly 22's and my competitive nature only against myself is trying to make one hole with 5 or 10 shots with my Remington 540X or my custom 10/22. Also have a very nice Thompson Center Contender with a 14" barrel that is a one hole contender. I also Love talking about guns and reading about them.

Guy's if I have been negative at all I apologize that has not been my intent. I do appreciate all the comments and information.
Thanks

Regarding a couple items in this discussion.
1. Splatter back. Steel targets will both pock mark and get lead build up on the face, and a bullet hitting the uneven surface will splatter in different unknown directions regardless if the cant of the plate. Steel plates need the surfaces smoothed out from time to time. If shoting plates with centerfire you can get cupping (inward bending of the center of the plate), and this can cause large chunks of bullet materiel to splatter back to the firing line. Steel plates should never be shot at less than 10 yards, preferably more.

2. Difficult ejection from S&W .22 revolvers. This has been a fact of life for over at least 85 years. S&W chambers are cut to a match grade dimension, and 22's being dirty the build up in the chamber can foul the chamber in as few as 20-30 rounds making ejection difficult. I have had K22 Outdoorsman from the 30's having chambers still so tight after less than a boxfull having to "beat" the empties out. Having to eject 10 rounds instead of 6 rounds makes things even harder. Reaming the chambers with a Manson "standard" finishing reamer will resolve this issue. Many will be able to get by with taking a brass brush to the range and brushing the chambers out every 20-30 rounds or so, and also polishing the chambers with a brush in a cordless drill and even using lapping compound with it. The only really permanent fix is the reaming.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

H Richard,
Thanks for the explanations. My steel plates are AR500 that have had center fire pistol caliber shot on them, but I usually just 22lr on them. So my plates really are in good shape with no cupping. I always shoot at 25 yards.

Sometimes a little polishing helps a long way...Several years ago a friend of mine was having FTE's on his little Kel Tec P3-AT. Even after it was thoroughly cleaned & lubed, it still had 3-4 FTE's per mag. Guy was ready to ship it back to Kel Tec, until....An acquaintance of the fella had a jewelers loop and he looked inside the chamber of the barrel and saw small spots of lead deposits caught in between the machining marks. The fired brass expanded and the tiny lead spots was just enough to prevent reliable extraction. Some 0000 steel wool on the end of a dremel to smooth out the machining marks in the chamber cured the problem, saving the guy a few weeks of not having his gun.

With my 617 I squirt Rem oil down the barrel and run a Hoppe's boresnake down it every 50-80 rounds or so along with running a pass thru the chambers on the cylinder during a match and wipe behind the ejector star with my T-shirt. If I don't then not even halfway thru the match the empties take a little bit more persuasion to eject and the cylinder would get tight to close. You can tell I've been shooting 22's when I have dirt smudges on my shirt and my finger's are black

you know I use a bore snake for my Browning BL-22's that I have. Love the bore snake. I am going to have to look up a pistol length one, I have never thought about one just for my pistols. I will have to find one now.

Well Guy's/Gal's
Received my 617 back from repair today (6-8-2018), they had her a total of three weeks. Paper said they cleaned the revolver (all the lead) replaced rear sight (bottomed out at 25 yards) and recut the forcing cone.
Took her out to my range and fired 50 rounds through her late this afternoon for the initial check out. She fired flawlessly. No lead spitting or build up out of her period. Shot straight and at 25 yards I had no problem hitting the 7 steel plates that I have. Even the 3" one at 25 yards was no problem. Very happy with S&W customer Service. I now have a S&W 617 that I am very proud of.
Pictures to come, but I have to decide on which grips to leave on it first. I have a set of wooden Pachmyer (don't know on the spelling) and the grips that came on it. But I have a set from a buddy of mine that I gave him a couple weeks ago that I used on my 686 when I had one. They are faux Ivory grips that hug the round but on both front and back allowing the grip frame to be held for smaller size hands like mine. They worked really well on my 686 when I had it so I image those will be the ones that I use for this revolver.
So pictures will probably be tomorrow or Sunday. But this 617 is going no where. It will be used along with my Single Six Hunter. It was just awesome shooting her today even if it was only 50 rounds. More shooting coming this weekend.

Good to hear it is back and shootin' well! Look fwd to pixs with those grips.

Glad they took care of you. My 617 experience was similar. Any company can put a gun out with problems,what separates SW from others is their customer service. In my opinion the best in the business.

Glad things got worked out. Comparing a 617 with a single action is just apples vs oranges. 2 Totally different animals. If you already own a 686, a 617 with the same barrel length makes an excellent understudy/practice piece & will fit in the same holster. A speed loader & loading block (several diff types, ansac is one) will allow loading 10 rounds in a couple of seconds, with practice. Steel challenge or bowling pin (among several others) are games where a 617 shines. I very seriously doubt you will be the oldest guy there.

Just reread the first post and got me thinking. I don’t know why anyone would sell a 617 unless in dire straights or something wasn’t right with it.
I think someone unloaded a defective gun on you.
Glad to see it’s now acting normally like the rest of ours.

WHY would you need a different boresnake?
Bring a cleaning rod both to scrub chambers and to push out stuck brass