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Old 06-04-2018, 05:44 PM
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Talked to a friend of mine up there. apparently no more grandfathering for the old timers. Last week their stainless revolvers were turned in. He said everyone on the dept is trying to buy them. Don’t know how many were left or if any will hit the market He didn’t know model # as he’s a junior guy
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Old 06-04-2018, 06:03 PM
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NYC has a policy of destroying all seized weapons regardless of collector value. I suspect that surplus police unit weapons are also destroyed. Traditionally, NYPD officers purchased their own weapons from an approved list so the officer may take the gun with him upon retirement. He's issued a carry permit his last day on the job. Once again, these practices are subject to change at the whim of the city fathers.

The only seized guns I know of that are or were on display are the revolvers used by Chapman against John Lennon and the .44 Bulldog used by "Son Of Sam."
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:02 PM
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NYC has a policy of destroying all seized weapons regardless of collector value. I suspect that surplus police unit weapons are also destroyed. Traditionally, NYPD officers purchased their own weapons from an approved list so the officer may take the gun with him upon retirement. He's issued a carry permit his last day on the job. Once again, these practices are subject to change at the whim of the city fathers.

The only seized guns I know of that are or were on display are the revolvers used by Chapman against John Lennon and the .44 Bulldog used by "Son Of Sam."
I honestly feel sick to my stomach after reading this. They destroy the weapons of police officers who risked their lives in service of citizens, yet keep the weapons used by maniacs and serial killers in murders. Absolutely disgusting.

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Old 06-04-2018, 10:17 PM
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The guns are owned by the officer. They might have some at the range for training and loaners, but I bet there were less than 200 duty weapon revolvers left. Certainly more off duty revolvers, but those are still grandfathered in.

The last duty revolver was issued 26 years ago. The last off duty was authorized 21 years ago. There were less than 200 still in duty holsters Those guys won’t be around for much longer. They’ve had 25 years to turn them in for a free 9MM. They chose not to. They should have been allowed to retire with them. They would have all been gone within a few years. NYPD cops qualify 2 times a year. 300 rounds a year. No real cost in keeping the ammo on hand since off duty wheel guns are still OK.

Wheel guns are a badge of honor. Last Model 10 or 36 was issued 30 years ago. Wearing a wheel gun is a status symbol. You were there when there was over 2500 murders a year. None of those guys are even in patrol anymore. The gun belt hangs in a locker to be worn maybe twice a year.

We had to pick our guns from a table in 2 minutes. Pick up one and feel it. Then choose. You knew right away. Then you had to hand over your money order for it. There was a real connection there.

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Old 06-04-2018, 10:23 PM
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SEE POSTING in Lounge area.

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Old 06-05-2018, 12:35 AM
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kbm6893 got to ask where those all new guns or a mix of new and used? And was the price retail or a reduced price? To be honest that sounds like the screwiest thing I can think of.

I've heard of departments requiring officers to purchase guns and I've heard of department issuing a duty weapon but I've never heard of a department providing a weapon which the officer had to purchase from the department itself.

Did NYPD at some time go away from the purchase and ownership policy to a department owned issue weapon? Is that why the old timers are being forced to switch to autos? In LAPD your issued duty weapon is the same no matter what. We've never forced anyone to change duties weapons but they can buy and switch to another if they pass the class. If you have 35 years on the job and report your Model 15 was destroyed in a house fire you'd be issued another Model 15. This is regardless of whatever you've bought and carry at that time.

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Old 06-05-2018, 02:42 AM
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Talked to a friend of mine up there. apparently no more grandfathering for the old timers. Last week their stainless revolvers were turned in. He said everyone on the dept is trying to buy them. Donít know how many were left or if any will hit the market He didnít know model # as heís a junior guy
There was a post here within the past 6 months or so detailing the mandated removal of model 64s from NYPD service. Most if not all of these will be 4" bull barreled, DAO and square butt. Lots of threads here about these NY-1 stamped guns.
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:31 AM
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kbm6893 got to ask where those all new guns or a mix of new and used? And was the price retail or a reduced price? To be honest that sounds like the screwiest thing I can think of.

I've heard of departments requiring officers to purchase guns and I've heard of department issuing a duty weapon but I've never heard of a department providing a weapon which the officer had to purchase from the department itself.

Did NYPD at some time go away from the purchase and ownership policy to a department owned issue weapon? Is that why the old timers are being forced to switch to autos? In LAPD your issued duty weapon is the same no matter what. We've never forced anyone to change duties weapons but they can buy and switch to another if they pass the class. If you have 35 years on the job and report your Model 15 was destroyed in a house fire you'd be issued another Model 15. This is regardless of whatever you've bought and carry at that time.
Nope. The guns were bought from the manufacturer by the city and shipped to either the equipment section at 1 Police Plaza for purchase or to the range at Rodman’s Neck in the Bronx where the outdoor range is. They were brand new in the box. They were cheaper, but not much. In the case of the semi autos, I recall the Glock being $345, the S&W 5946 being like $475, and the SIG 226 being $540. This was before night sights were mandatory and all guns had standard sights. The officers chose which gun they wanted from an approved list and bought them from the equipment section. Before the switch to the spurless hammer stainless guns, the guns were just standard weapons with no modifications. S&W and Ruger were the two options, but Colt was authorized way back. Look up Melvin Yearwood, NYPD. He’s the reason we went to DAO guns. He had the hammer back as he held some kid at gunpoint for breaking light bulbs in a subway station. BOOM! Blew his head off.

The job always mandated blued guns. Back then, stainless was seen as too flashy and pimped out. The DAO guns were stainless, but with a subdued frosted finish. They were made specifically for the NYPD, but since they weren’t NYPD property, they had to have a different marking. The Ruger Service Six has a star in the crane, I believe. The Model 64-1 had NY1 in the crane. The serial number was right under the NY-1 so it could be easily read. I think it was actually on the frame. Most guys ditched the magna grips right away. Pachmayr was an authorized rubber replacement. Guys who kept the magna stocks often added a Tyler T grip. The later Rugers (when Ruger stopped making the Six series) was the GP100 and SP101 in .38 only. They were renamed the GPNY and SPNY.

It wasn’t a big deal. The third day of the academy after orientation, you went to the range in the basement. The different duty guns were laid out. You stepped up, held them for like 30 seconds, and chose. The prices for each were on a blackboard. Everything was paid by money order. You had one money order for equipment, and one for your weapon. I remember everybody had to have an actual dime at orientation day to pay for the giant safety pin to hold your shield (that you wouldn’t even get for six months) to your shirt!

Now the guns are given to the officer, paid for by the union, I believe. Same process as before, but the money order is for the night sights only. Like $90 or so. The guns are yours when you retire. I gotta think a lot of those guys turning in their revolvers are gonna sell the free semi the day they retire. There won’t be any attachment to a Glock that there was their revolver. Anybody who wanted a semi would have gotten one by now. Free gun and three days off regular duty to shoot were had to pass up, especially if you still did enforcement duty.

Matter of fact, the reason why people sometimes see new in box 64-1’s is because the switch to the semi autos happened literally a week before a 2500 member academy class went in. S&W dumped their inventory to gun distributors. Nothing was destroyed by the NYPD. They either sold them back to Smith for credit or used what was left in inventory as training or loaner guns. Trust me, a job that made you pay 10 cents for a safety pin wasnt gonna destroy thousands of valuable firearms.

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Old 06-05-2018, 09:04 AM
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I recently visited the NYPD one-three precinct where I was vouchering my off duty (heading to a venue for a show in the City- you know, GUN FREE ZONES). The desk sergeant was an old timer, who’s gold sergeant shield was worn down to silver. Anyhow, he was carrying an old Model 10 in his original vintage Jay Pee holster, along with HKS speedloaders. The Magnas were well worn, as was the grip finish and the leather gear.

What a sight! Great guy, said he was on the job for about 33 years (a real dinosaur by NYPD standards). Said he was going to the range the following week and was being forced to retire the M10 for a 9mm pistol. To say the least, he was very melancholy about the transition. Honestly, I was too...
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:12 AM
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I wonder if part of the reason for the mandating to higher capacity guns wasn't pressure by other NYPD officers. Realistically, in today's world, who would want their partner backing them up with only 5 rounds in their primary weapon? While I'm a huge revolver fan, and while I believe they still work very well for civilian SD/HD, they are not the best defense for today's urban warfare and LEOs. Like locked entrance doors and metal detectors at elementary schools, it's a sad thing to see, but a necessity.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:33 AM
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Makes no sense to destroy the guns. You don't know what the future brings.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:45 AM
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https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digi...45560NCJRS.pdf
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:09 PM
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I wonder if part of the reason for the mandating to higher capacity guns wasn't pressure by other NYPD officers. Realistically, in today's world, who would want their partner backing them up with only 5 rounds in their primary weapon? While I'm a huge revolver fan, and while I believe they still work very well for civilian SD/HD, they are not the best defense for today's urban warfare and LEOs. Like locked entrance doors and metal detectors at elementary schools, it's a sad thing to see, but a necessity.
that was not a factor. It was an upper level decision, which of course makes no sense in that only 29 officers are involved.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:38 PM
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I wonder if that study would hold up if the numbers were run today?

The comments about the "two step" unloading process are a good advertisement for magazine disconnects and a condemnation of guns that require a trigger pull as part of the disassembly process. No names need be mentioned.



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Old 06-05-2018, 07:12 PM
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I wonder if part of the reason for the mandating to higher capacity guns wasn't pressure by other NYPD officers. Realistically, in today's world, who would want their partner backing them up with only 5 rounds in their primary weapon? While I'm a huge revolver fan, and while I believe they still work very well for civilian SD/HD, they are not the best defense for today's urban warfare and LEOs. Like locked entrance doors and metal detectors at elementary schools, it's a sad thing to see, but a necessity.
Less than 1/10 of 1% of cops fire their weapons a year. Nobody is worried. Guys in high enforcement areas like narcotics aren’t still carrying wheel guns. The 30 guys left are hairbags who are probably not even in uniform anymore.

And as bad as people think current day is, cops with revolvers walked the beat at a time when there were 2500 homicides a year. The .38 got them this far. Let the guys retire with them.

But the point is moot. The brass has spoken. Bet you nobody asked the few guys left what they wanted. I’d like to hear one safety reason why the guns have to be retired. It was about a separate qualification for those few guys. That was it.

That 33 year vet sergeant came on in 1984-1985. He could have gotten a free gun 25 years ago. He didn’t. The fact that he was melancholy about turning it in says it all. Probably a few year left to retirement and he’s gotta turn in his duty weapon for a plastic autoloader with stiff leather.

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Old 06-05-2018, 07:16 PM
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I've spoken to a Philly officer who went through the transition from revolver to automatics. He welcomed the change. He remembered encounters on the streets of Philly that involved TEC-9 and UZI type weapons. He told me that it was very unsettling to go against bad guys who had more ammo in their guns than he had on his entire person. Didn't seem like nostalgia played any factor in his decision.
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:53 PM
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I am retiring in August if this year, and I have been the dinosaur...er,...revolver carrier in my division. My issue revolver is a S&W Model 686-6 in .357 Magnum carried in a black basketweave Gould & Goodrich cruiser holster, and I wear 2 black basketweave double speedloader pouches on my duty belt. I carry a personally owned S&W Model 642-2 in a pocket holster as a backup. As for qualification, I shoot the same course of fire as the younger Glock 22-armed children. They used to ask when I was going to join the 21st Century until they realized I was outshooting them at every semiannual qualification. The range master would have me back up about a foot when we got to the 1 yard line because the muzzle blast would destroy my target. (Yes, I qualified with Magnum duty ammo.) If I needed more than my revolver and backup, and a few times I did, there was a rifle (initially a Winchester '94) and shotgun (Remington 870 all the way) in the rack.

If they give me the 686-6, I'll take it, but I won't buy it. I already have a retired 681. End of revolver NYPD

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Old 06-05-2018, 07:59 PM
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I've spoken to a Philly officer who went through the transition from revolver to automatics. He welcomed the change. He remembered encounters on the streets of Philly that involved TEC-9 and UZI type weapons. He told me that it was very unsettling to go against bad guys who had more ammo in their guns than he had on his entire person. Didn't seem like nostalgia played any factor in his decision.
And most guys have done the same. For whatever the reason. I suspect a free gun and three days off patrol. But for some reason, 29 guys haven’t. About 1 in 1200 guys. They’ll be retired soon enough. Off duty revolvers are still authorized and there are many more than 29. Hundreds, maybe thousands. So the ammo will still be st the range for the off duties.

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Old 06-05-2018, 08:27 PM
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Wow NYPD gives ammo for off duty guns? LA only provides one box, 50 rounds, of duty ammo per year and that's for your primary gun.

As for forcing guys to switch, I know there has been discussion about it. The biggest reason for LA is the armory would no longer have to have stock spare guns and parts. They would also no longer need to send new people to revolver armor school.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:33 PM
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Glad I scored one when I could..
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:16 PM
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Wow NYPD gives ammo for off duty guns? LA only provides one box, 50 rounds, of duty ammo per year and that's for your primary gun.

As for forcing guys to switch, I know there has been discussion about it. The biggest reason for LA is the armory would no longer have to have stock spare guns and parts. They would also no longer need to send new people to revolver armor school.
It’s kind of BS. You qualify twice a Year and all ammo is shot and switched out. You get a box each for service and off duty weapon on the way out. Every officer is entitled to one box of duty ammo a month to shoot if he wants to. But the ammo must be shot and not just taken away AND it must be taken out and shot at a department approved range. There were like 3 all over the city. None of them convenient to get to, especially for 50 rounds of ammo. I recall doing it exactly one time.

As for spare parts for a revolver, I call BS. S&W still makes and supports K frame .38’s and J frame revolvers. And since the guns don’t get shot very often they rarely if ever need servicing.

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Old 06-05-2018, 11:23 PM
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As the last guy carrying a revolver for work in my part of the world I feel bad for the NYPD guys being forced to give up their wheel guns. The youngest of them has almost 25 years on the job with the .38, if they made it this far what sense does it make to force them to change. Then again, when has any upper management ever shown any sense. A three day transition course is not going to give these guys the same level of skill with the pistol that they have with the revolver after 25+ years.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:35 AM
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No parts and servicing the various guns is a pain. We authorize Smith and Colt revolvers, Beretta 92 series, 2nd and 3rd Gen Smith autos, Glock, Smith M&P and 1911.

Getting rid of one class, revolvers, would free up space and like I said eliminate the need to send new armors to school.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:43 AM
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No parts and servicing the various guns is a pain. We authorize Smith and Colt revolvers, Beretta 92 series, 2nd and 3rd Gen Smith autos, Glock, Smith M&P and 1911.

Getting rid of one class, revolvers, would free up space and like I said eliminate the need to send new armors to school.
Nobody on the NYPD is still carrying a Colt. So at best, we have we have armorers for S&W revolvers, Ruger revolvers, S&W 3rd gen, Glock, and SIG.

I’m still calling BS for the armorer argument. I’m sure there are still quite a few guys trained to work on revolvers. They’re not retiring any sooner than the youngest of those left carrying a .38, who would have 26 years on the job. And since off duty revolvers are still OK, they need to still have revolver armorers for the foreseeable future.

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Old 06-11-2018, 06:35 AM
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Chicago PD still has officers carrying revolvers and a few big bores.
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:18 AM
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I was in Philly a couple of years ago and talked w/an officer carrying a stainless thirty-eight. She was a sergeant w/well over 20 years service and was allowed to keep her revolver. She had young kids and no plans to retire anytine soon so she’s likely still there.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:26 AM
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Thanks, a very interesting read. Based on what I read why did they switch to autos? The report seemed to indicate that revolvers were the better choice.

Probably a better choice for CCW. I do have a bias towards revolvers, not because of a lack of training but because of training. I trust revolvers more than autos, unless it's an M60 or ma deuce.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:31 AM
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Glad I scored one when I could..
Fixed sight revolver with a bobbed hammer. Nice score.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:38 AM
trooper2899 trooper2899 is offline
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End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD  
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Got mine in Jovino's in Manhattan (either Smith or Colt) Not allowed to take it out of the Box till we went to Rodmans Neck range on City Island. When I left to go to another agency it was a bureaucratic nightmare to get them to release it to me even though I had a brand new gold shield and ID Card plus it was my personal ($) property - things haven't changed much since then, many firearms that come into their possession go down a black hole
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:28 PM
kbm6893 kbm6893 is offline
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End of revolver NYPD  
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Really? Guys I know who left the job vouchered the gun at their command and when they got their new shield and ID they walked into the precinct and picked it up. No problem at all. They’re not gonna destroy a weapon that is personally owned by a member of the service who has a copy of the property voucher. Now if the precinct sent it to the borough property room, it could get lost, but they never did that for cop weapons that are gonna be picked up by the cop.

Last edited by kbm6893; 06-11-2018 at 08:39 PM.
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  #31  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:22 PM
shouldazagged shouldazagged is online now
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End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD End of revolver NYPD  
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Whatever the policy and procedure details and vagaries, I feel sad for the long-termers who have to give up carrying their revolvers. When you've depended on one gun to maintain the safety of your bacon, you trust it, and you know it intimately, it must be a wrench to be told you can no longer keep it on the job.
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