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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 06-21-2018, 01:18 AM
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Default Is This a CS-1 M-686?



This is one of the best revolver training videos I've seen, developed by Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETEC) academy.

The gun shown is a M-686 with four-inch barrel and round butt Pachmayr grips. These grips have the later type gold medallion.

Is this the longer of the two Customs issued CS-1 guns? There was a three-inch model for plainclothes agents.

Note that the blonde female agent uses the same large, rather heavy revolver.

These 686's seem not to have the normal satin stainless finish. CS -1's have a more frosted look, I thought. These are definitely round-butt M-686's.

What do you think: CS-1 or just a round butt std. M-686? I think they're CS-1's. Look carefully in the excellent close-up views.

BTW, pay attention to the video. You 'll probably emerge a better trained shooter.

What are CS-1's going for, if one can be found? Does the three-inch barrel version command a premium?

Last edited by Texas Star; 06-21-2018 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:28 AM
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This is one.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:27 PM
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Yes they have them
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:09 PM
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This is one.
Is this a sq. butt gun? Those in the movie are round butt. I thought all CS-1 variants were rnd. butt. ??
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:33 PM
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Is this a sq. butt gun? Those in the movie are round butt. I thought all CS-1 variants were rnd. butt. ??
Round butt.
Far as I know, all CS-1s are Round butt.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:05 PM
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Jim, all the CS-1 revolvers were round butt, had a frosted finish, with Pachmayer grips. Yes, there was a 3" version, I had one for a very short time. I found it to be overly heavy and bulky. It was though, fun to shoot with REAL .357 Magnum ammo. Oh-boy, the 3' versions do command a premium price.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:50 PM
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Default Is This a CS-1 M-686?

This one is on my "short list" for my collection. Here is my $ .02:

I've kept this post for several years now, to go with my purchase, if that ever happens - US Customs Service 686 CS-1

These were custom ordered revolvers for the U S Customs service. I think that the 3" models were carried by field agents, and the longer 4" models by supervisors, although this is probably a generalization, and not a hard-and-fast rule. They were made with Pachmayr grips with a slot in the heel of the butt so that the serial number could be easily read, and verified.

IIRC, you can find "686 CS" by opening the yoke. They were built to tighter specifications and tolerances compared to the standard Model 686, which initially caused problems firing, opening and closing the yoke, etc.

From my GB experience, they do command a price premium, somewhere in the $1,200.00 - $2,000.00 range, based on the condition and completeness of the set (revolver, docs, box, label, etc.) but sometimes higher if a "Newbie" is bidding, or there is a "bidding war" for one!

The information that I have read also indicates that most had the shorter hammer nose/hammer nose bushing retrofit. The USCS sent a retrofit team to the FLETC and some have a "2M" stamped in the yoke. I may be in error on this point, although you will see a "2M" in some revolvers.

Janet Reno cancelled this program and there may have been overbuy orders. Smith & Wesson installed wood grips on these cancelled orders and sold them to other customers, perhaps distributors.

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Old 06-21-2018, 05:18 PM
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Sold a 4 inch CS-1 about a month ago with all for 976. 99%. Sold a 3 inch in same condition Sunday night on GB for 1990.01, yes the 3 inch will bring much more.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:15 PM
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FYI...The video doesn't show it, but CS-1s have a narrow front sight. If I recall correctly they are 1/10" instead of 1/8" for standard 686s. Other than the "CS-1" stamp, that is the only way I can tell them apart from standard 686s.
Get one if you have the chance, and the price is reasonable. Several years ago, I traded a 3" CS-1 for a pre-lock 3 7/8" 610-2. I don't regret it because I wanted that particular 610, and their values are the same, but I sure miss the CS-1
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:28 PM
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The black ramp pinned front sight is the easiest feature to spot at a distance on a CS-1. (You can see that from across a room).

The vast majority of M686's of that era, like 98%, had the integral stainless blade with red insert. Most of the exceptions will be seen with a pinned Patridge blade. The Patridge was used occasionally on 6-inch guns, more rarely on 4-inch guns, and never, that I've seen, on a 3-inch or 2.5-inch gun.

It wasn't until the -5 that M686's got a pinned front sight, and that gun was built on a totally different frame and a decade after the last CS-1 shipped.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:32 PM
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the grips look like my CS-1 2M... the finish looks correct... probably the 4 inch version... and yes the 3 inch bring a premium... I have seen 50% to 100% premium over the 4 inch... but mine is not for sale... my late father bought it new in the box and left it to me... mine is priceless...lol
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:13 PM
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And this is one,



It had those grips on it when I got it back in the mid 90’s, my old dealer had this 3” and a 4” CS-1 and a black Galco Miami Vice classic shoulder rig that came in from a retired agent, I got the 3” and the shoulder rig. It is one of my favorites!
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:23 PM
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I didn't realize the CS-1 had a pinned front sight until now. Always learning something new here.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:35 PM
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The over-run guns came with round butt modified magnas.
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Old 06-22-2018, 11:38 AM
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This one is mine with the issue grips. Right out of the box, this revolver just flat out works for me. It was an overrun and I picked it up when they first hit the market. It is a superb revolver for both the range AND the field.



Dale53

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Old 06-22-2018, 12:11 PM
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the grips look like my CS-1 2M... the finish looks correct... probably the 4 inch version... and yes the 3 inch bring a premium... I have seen 50% to 100% premium over the 4 inch... but mine is not for sale... my late father bought it new in the box and left it to me... mine is priceless...lol
From what I have read, your CS-1 is correct with the medallions on the Pachmayrs and believe all of the issued guns had the 2M stamp. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:51 PM
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This one is mine with the issue grips. Right out of the box, this revolver just flat out works for me. It was an overrun and I picked it up when they first hit the market. It is a superb revolver for both the range AND the field.



Dale53
Dale-

Your gun seems just what the agents have in the video, other than the medallion in the Pachmayrs. I think whether they had the medallion depended on when the grips were bought.

I think the four-inch guns went to uniformed Customs agents and the three-inch barrels went to plainclothes personnel.

I agree: you have both a collectible and a fine field revolver.

It's a shame that the Clinton Administration seems to have ordered most of these destroyed. I doubt we'll see releases of any future government-retired guns, alas.

The WW II .45 autos are going to be priced like collectibles, which they are, rather than as typical Govt. surplus guns.

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Old 06-22-2018, 01:01 PM
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…. I doubt we'll see releases of any future government-retired guns, alas.
The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is schedule to release a number of Government M1911 pistols this Fall.
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Old 06-22-2018, 01:18 PM
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The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is schedule to release a number of Government M1911 pistols this Fall.
CMP 1911 Information
Those are the ones I said will be priced as collectibles. I saw a list of prices, graded by condition, and none of them will be inexpensive. Gee, I recall when they sold for $39.95!
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Old 06-22-2018, 02:51 PM
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I bought this one at a gun show about 10 years ago:





It was the only 3" gun on a dealer table with a bunch of 4" 686 police trade-ins. It had a good amount of holster wear, but was in good shooting condition.
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:01 PM
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Very nice, do you mind to reveal what you paid for it?
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Old 06-22-2018, 04:55 PM
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Dale-

...

I think the four-inch guns went to uniformed Customs agents and the three-inch barrels went to plainclothes personnel.

...
I was a U.S. Customs Firearms Instructor when the CS-1's came out. I think I've chimed in on this before, but I'll add some information to try and clarify things. The CS-1's were issued to armed US Customs personnel. As far as I know, that only included US Customs Inspectors and US Customs Special Agents. Inspectors were issued 4" guns, Agents were issued 3" guns.

Customs Inspectors, now known as a Customs and Border Protection Officers, were the uniformed officers that worked at the border (or functional equivalent thereof, such as seaports or international airports.) Special Agents, now know as Homeland Security Investigation Special Agents, were the plain clothes investigators for the Customs Service (think FBI agent for comparison sake.)

The two positions, although under the same agency, US Customs, were not actually linked. Special Agents had no supervisory authority over Customs Inspectors or vice versa. They did not have the same chains of command. You could not routinely switch between services. So the issuance of the CS-1's was not based on rank, but type of service. Customs Inspectors, the uniformed arm of the Customs Service, were issued 4" models. Special Agents, the investigative arm of the service, were issued 3" guns.

The CS-1's were a dream to shoot, relatively - especially by today's standards - heavy to carry, and every time a thread like this comes up, I wish I had mine back. When we transitioned from the CS-1 to the 6906 (at least the agents) I had to box up all the CS-1's and send them back to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Personnel were allowed to tag their issued weapon with a request to buy the gun back (I tagged mine.) But as far as I know, we were never given the chance (I know no one in my office ever bought one) and I believe (sorry I can't say with certainty) but I believe then Attorney General Janet Reno ordered them destroyed rather than have them introduced into the private sector.
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Old 06-23-2018, 12:48 AM
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Very nice, do you mind to reveal what you paid for it?
If I remember correctly, it was $400 - $450 OTD, and about $50-$75 more than the 4" 686s on the table.

The dealer told me the CS stood for Custom Shop, it didn't feel appropriate to correct him so I just paid and walked away happy.

I really wish I had looked more closely at the 4" guns, there might have been another CS-1 in the lot.
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Old 06-23-2018, 02:17 PM
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From what I have read, your CS-1 is correct with the medallions on the Pachmayrs and believe all of the issued guns had the 2M stamp. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I believe, based on my limited research, you are correct about the 2M stamp... only field guns had that stamp... so it was strange that my father's gun had the 2M and was new in the box... must have been on the shelf waiting for issue when the switch happened and just got sent back to S&W and then sent to distributors... not complaining, just surprised my father got lucky enough to land one... I was with him at the gun show when he got it... along with our parish priest that bought his first centerfire revolver, a model 19 snubby... maybe there was a higher power at work...hmmm... you know that "mysterious ways" thing...
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:33 PM
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I was a U.S. Customs Firearms Instructor when the CS-1's came out. I think I've chimed in on this before, but I'll add some information to try and clarify things. The CS-1's were issued to armed US Customs personnel. As far as I know, that only included US Customs Inspectors and US Customs Special Agents. Inspectors were issued 4" guns, Agents were issued 3" guns.

Customs Inspectors, now known as a Customs and Border Protection Officers, were the uniformed officers that worked at the border (or functional equivalent thereof, such as seaports or international airports.) Special Agents, now know as Homeland Security Investigation Special Agents, were the plain clothes investigators for the Customs Service (think FBI agent for comparison sake.)

The two positions, although under the same agency, US Customs, were not actually linked. Special Agents had no supervisory authority over Customs Inspectors or vice versa. They did not have the same chains of command. You could not routinely switch between services. So the issuance of the CS-1's was not based on rank, but type of service. Customs Inspectors, the uniformed arm of the Customs Service, were issued 4" models. Special Agents, the investigative arm of the service, were issued 3" guns.

The CS-1's were a dream to shoot, relatively - especially by today's standards - heavy to carry, and every time a thread like this comes up, I wish I had mine back. When we transitioned from the CS-1 to the 6906 (at least the agents) I had to box up all the CS-1's and send them back to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. Personnel were allowed to tag their issued weapon with a request to buy the gun back (I tagged mine.) But as far as I know, we were never given the chance (I know no one in my office ever bought one) and I believe (sorry I can't say with certainty) but I believe then Attorney General Janet Reno ordered them destroyed rather than have them introduced into the private sector.

This is a great narrative regarding the U.S. Customs Service CA-1 revolvers.

When these guns were ordered turned in, Customs personnel were indeed advised to attach a business card to the trigger guard if they desired to purchase any particular firearm. These CS-1s, and a considerable number of other firearms (including S&W M66s, S&W459s and Colt AR-15 carbines), ultimately ended up with Sarco in New Jersey. Some other entity may have also purchased or otherwise been the recipient of some of these firearms, but Sarco is the only one to my knowledge that offered a buy back program.

Many Customs Agents and Inspectors were later contacted by Sarco and asked if they wanted to purchase not only the item they had tagged, but any other firearms not tagged. Several Agents and Inspectors I know personally subsequently picked up multiple items; all of which were sent by Sarco to the purchaser's designated FFL. Sarco further requested that anyone else, dealer or private citizen, be directed to them if either was interested in any of the ex-Customs firearms.

I believe the CS-1s, M66s and ARs were $$200 each. The 459s were $175-$180 each.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:09 PM
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I'm a former U.S. Customs Special Agent and firearms instructor. The CS-1 3 inch guns were usually issued to the Agents and Air/Marine Officers. The 4 inch CS-1s were issued to the uniformed Inspectors and Dog Handlers.

On the other CS-1 thread, I posted a very extensive history of the CS-1, and why it's initial designed caused failures with the revolvers. Hence the modifications needed and the 2M stamp signifying that weapon had received the necessary modification. They were heavy to carry, and with the malfunctions that were occurring, had a less than stellar opinion among the Agents. Even after the modification, many Agents elected to carry personally owned and approved handguns.

The CS-1 was officially removed from the field in 1989, when the Customs Services started issuing S&W 6906 9mm pistols. The last revolvers to be issued by U.S. Customs were model 60 and 640 J frames for backup guns.

Many of the CS-1s were sold at exchange sales until 1992 when the Clinton Administration banned the sale of surplus service weapons to the public. I got my 3 inch CS-1 from an lot that Lew Horton had purchased. Many distributors purchased and sold the Customs surplus were sold by several distributors. Birmingham Pistol Parlor purchased much of the surplus AR-15's when the Customs Service went to the Steyr AUG as the standard service rifle.
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