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Old 07-02-2018, 10:31 PM
HamHands HamHands is offline
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"Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum"  
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I've often wondered what the true definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" really is: I can tell you what my definition of the meaning is... But I'm wondering what the collective idea is of the term/criteria is in the minds of the knowledgeable members that make up this wonderful forum/community. I think the epitome of the idea is pretty much summed up in the borrowed first (3) pic of the revolvers posted in the pics below. It's a short (3" to 4") barreled, ramped front sight, chambered in either the venerable .357Magnum... or my new favorite, the .44Magnum; thus in a high speed, low drag profile with a round butt frame & coupled w/ combat style stocks sporting a smooth/crisp trigger and either equipped with a short spur or bobbed hammer. But that is my idea of the concept... and I want "your" idea of the concept... There is no right or wrong answer... just keep your opinion(s) honest and respectful. Thanks most of all... for participating-posting in this subjective thread and for passing on your imparted wisdom of the idea as a whole. I've been a semi-auto guy all my life except for the last (5) years... In which I've come to the blatant realization that I've been missing out on the revolver as an extremely viable, reliable, and certainly venerable concept in regards to self defense that we all enjoy; that I plan to pass down to my 7 year old daughter (when the time is right later on), and hopefully most certainly to my grandchildren in the future! Thanks again fellas!

My quintessential definition of the subject is pictured in the first (3) borrowed pic(s) below.




This last pic is of my own personal 629, and my new to me M29, "Combat-Magnum" both used now for CCW around town and "Woods Carry" revolvers that I've become so fond of... even over my beloved CZ semi-auto, the "P-01..."
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:44 PM
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I have to agree. My 4" M29 and 3" M629 are my go-to guns while my actual "Combat Magnums" stay in the safe. That said, I think a 8 shot 627 would be a heck of a CCW, and the extra weight of the N frame would make full tilt 357 much more manageable than 357 in a K/L frame, so follow-ups would be faster and more accurate.

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"Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum"-m29-reblue-2-jpg
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:00 PM
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IMO the "True Combat Magnum" is a 4" non model marked KT-357 that shipped between 1956-1958 prior to Model marking,
[IMG][/IMG]
(After that the Combat Magnum became Model 19).
[IMG][/IMG]

As for what my personal ultimate .357 "Combat Magnum" revolver might be ?
Perhaps a four inch 7 shot 686-5 Mountain gun with smooth Combat trigger and Finger groove Combat stocks.
[IMG][/IMG]

Alternate take is the 19-7 K Comp (right)
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:07 PM
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I once owned a mod 586 ,four inch barrel magnaported, action job, Millet high visability sights, pachmeyer grippers.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:12 PM
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Default IT MUST HAVE FIXED SIGHTS.

An "original" 1911 for a semi, many revo's, a 681 perhaps??? If out of ammo, it must have enough heft to bludgeon someone.

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Old 07-02-2018, 11:21 PM
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Duplicate !

Last edited by HamHands; 07-03-2018 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:21 AM
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The nomenclature is a bit confusing, one might argue snub Magnums are more of a CCW than a "Combat revolver" .

Prior to the introduction of the 4" Combat Masterpiece the only options for a 4" S&W duty revolver in .38 caliber were
the K frame M&P, N frame 38/44 HD or N frame 357 Magnum.

The name Combat first appears on the "Combat Masterpiece" (pre Model 15) and its .22 sibling (Pre Model 18) in 1949 and became a regular catalog item in 1950 ,
The name "Combat" was applied to distinguish the 4" versions from their 6" "Masterpiece" counterparts before the advent of model marking.

In 1954 S&W introduced the Highway Patrolman (pre 28) as a cheaper alternative duty weapon with target sites in .357 caliber ,

The 4" K target frame .357 "Combat Magnum" became available in 1956 as a lighter alternative to the bigger N frame 357's
and in SS in 1970 as the Model 66.

Last edited by Engine49guy; 07-03-2018 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:56 AM
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The first TRUE combat MAGNUM came out in 1847. The Colt Walker.

Even after 170 years there are just a few guns as powerful... Capable

of generating over 500 ft pounds of ENERGY.. Walker wanted a pistol

capable of killing the rider AND his horse out to 100yds. A TRUE Combat Magnum..

The cylinder chambers held 60 gr. of Black Powder.. About the same

amount as Army Muskets used in that era...
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:31 AM
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"Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum"  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
The nomenclature is a bit confusing, one might argue snub Magnums are more of a CCW than a "Combat revolver" .

Prior to the introduction of the 4" Combat Masterpiece the only options for a 4" S&W duty revolver in .38 caliber were
the K frame M&P, N frame 38/44 HD or N frame 357 Magnum.

The name Combat first appears on the "Combat Masterpiece" (pre Model 15) and its .22 sibling (Pre Model 18) in 1949 and became a regular catalog item in 1950 ,
The name "Combat" was applied to distinguish the 4" versions from their 6" "Masterpiece" counterparts before the advent of model marking.

In 1954 S&W introduced the Highway Patrolman (pre 28) as a cheaper alternative duty weapon with target sites in .357 caliber ,

The 4" K target frame .357 "Combat Magnum" became available in 1956 as a lighter alternative to the bigger N frame 357's
and in SS in 1970 as the Model 66.
Very true! In my mind/opinion the "Combat Magnum" is a hard hitting fight stopper that's easily able to be put into action, snag free upon the draw; something you'll always have on you... that doesn't require a drop leg holster to carry AND is easily reloadable.

I'm thinking of having my M29's cylinder machined for moon-clips and the chambers chamfered by Clark Customs.

I'm loving the history here; of which you seem to be well informed of. Thank you for your informative post(s)! This is exactly what I started this thread looking for...
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:11 AM
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S&W introduced the "Combat Magnum" to the world in 1954/55 ....... 4", Blue K-frame .357 magnum with adjustable sights.......it was assigned the model number 19 in 1957!
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:18 AM
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My definition of a “combat magnum” revolver, would be any magnum caliber revolver I was willing to carry into a potential combat area. My personal choices, any 2 ˝” – 4” model 19/66. Other than replacing the factory stocks, which is mostly an appearance thing, I don’t feel the need to make any modifications to any of the above.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:20 AM
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I would go by Smith & Wesson's Definition. A Combat Magnum has been a 4" 585 or 686 while a Combat Masterpiece has been a 4" 67 for example.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:29 AM
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Combat magnum? A Glock 10 mm.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:51 AM
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Any revolver Smith & Wesson put/puts the name on. That would be any K-frame, 357 magnum, with adjustable sights, including "pre" 19's Model 19's all dashes, including the new "classic" 19, and the Model 69, 44 Magnum.

They named it. I don't get to change it.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:04 PM
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Combat magnum? A Glock 10 mm.
BOO! HISS! BOO!

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Old 07-03-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old bear View Post
My definition of a “combat magnum” revolver, would be any magnum caliber revolver I was willing to carry into a potential combat area. My personal choices, any 2 ˝” – 4” model 19/66. Other than replacing the factory stocks, which is mostly an appearance thing, I don’t feel the need to make any modifications to any of the above.
Mostly Agree... But stocks for me make a huge difference with the way a revolver handles. I have meaty hands... and Magna's with a Tyler T on an "N" frame gives me a grip rivaling my 1911 Commander with slim stocks.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
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Combat magnum? A Glock 10 mm.
I like handload or boutique 10mm performance for sure. And I can't even begin to entertain the capacity/firepower argument but... a 300grain full house .44mag stomps 10mm anything all day!
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:40 PM
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IIRC Combat Magnum production began in 1955 with only one or two VIP guns leaving the factory prior to the 1955 Christmas holiday shutdown, regular shipment begins in 1956 .

The L frame 586/686 series is actually the "Distinguished Combat Magnum" and the fixed sight 581/681 is the "Distinguished Service Magnum".

IMO while moonclips aid extraction when using rimless rounds in a revolver and make for faster reloads when racing the clock in competition Im not sure there is any benefit to modify a .44 Magnum for moonclips unless you are using it in competition ,
If so the excessive recoil and muzzle flip of the 44 Mag cartridge would likely negate its use.
The advantage of Magnum rounds are their higher lethality from a well placed center mass shot with the focus on accuracy instead of volume of fire .
If there is a reasonable threat of multiple targets or a prolonged gunfight scenario requiring a higher volume of fire its time to consider a 15 shot 9mm semi auto with two spare mags,...In that scenario some believe a handgun is a tool best used to fight your way to your rifle or shotgun

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Old 07-03-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamHands View Post
I've often wondered what the true definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" really is: I can tell you what my definition of the meaning is... But I'm wondering what the collective idea is of the term/criteria is in the minds of the knowledgeable members that make up this wonderful forum/community. I think the epitome of the idea is pretty much summed up in the borrowed first (3) pic of the revolvers posted in the pics below. It's a short (3" to 4") barreled, ramped front sight, chambered in either the venerable .357Magnum... or my new favorite, the .44Magnum; thus in a high speed, low drag profile with a round butt frame & coupled w/ combat style stocks sporting a smooth/crisp trigger and either equipped with a short spur or bobbed hammer. But that is my idea of the concept... and I want "your" idea of the concept... There is no right or wrong answer... just keep your opinion(s) honest and respectful. Thanks most of all... for participating-posting in this subjective thread and for passing on your imparted wisdom of the idea as a whole. I've been a semi-auto guy all my life except for the last (5) years... In which I've come to the blatant realization that I've been missing out on the revolver as an extremely viable, reliable, and certainly venerable concept in regards to self defense that we all enjoy; that I plan to pass down to my 7 year old daughter (when the time is right later on), and hopefully most certainly to my grandchildren in the future! Thanks again fellas!

My quintessential definition of the subject is pictured in the first (3) borrowed pic(s) below.




This last pic is of my own personal 629, and my new to me M29, "Combat-Magnum" both used now for CCW around town and "Woods Carry" revolvers that I've become so fond of... even over my beloved CZ semi-auto, the "P-01..."
It's funny you bring up your CZ P-01, cause my P-01 along with my Model 19 "Combat Magnum" is my most accurate handgun. I absolutely love them both.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamHands View Post
I like handload or boutique 10mm performance for sure. And I can't even begin to entertain the capacity/firepower argument but... a 300grain full house .44mag stomps 10mm anything all day!
No question. I've got a 2.75 44 combat magnum myself. What's practical for me too shoot from it and get it back on target for a 2nd shot? A load that's about equivalent to a full house 10 mm. Physics.
Might as well carry a Glock 20 with 3x the capacity.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:37 PM
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IMHO---EITHER ONE OF THE THREE MOUNTAIN GUNS, PICTURED BELOW, WOULD FIT THE CRITERIA. THEY ALL HAVE 4" BARRELS, AND ROUND BUTTS. THEY ARE WELL BALANCED, AND EASILY CARRIED CONCEALED IN A BELT OR SHOULDER HOLSTER.....

THEY ARE L TO R---

A M686+, 7 SHOT, IN .357 MAGNUM......

A M629, IN .44 MAGNUM......

A M625, IN .45 COLT......

THE M686 IS ACTUALLY NAMED THE "DISTINGUISHED COMBAT MAGNUM". AS SUCH, I WOULD INCLUDE MY 2 1/2" M686+, WHICH IS MY EDC, IN THIS CATEGORY AS WELL......
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:39 PM
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My 69 snubby reads combat magnum in the barrel. I’d say it qualifies. IMO.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:39 PM
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I suppose it is a subjective term, no doubt coined by S&W. I am sure that there are many that would go with the N frame, in a short bbl 357, and while I love N frame models, my idea would be a meat and potatoes K frame 4" model 65, with combat rubber( don't like to look at them, prefer wood) grips, a wide smooth trigger, and a finely tuned and polished action. Using standard 158 gr Kieth type hard cast SWC,s When I did LEO combat qualifying with mine( using std 38 158gr loads, I did well. i see no reason not to do well with 357 loads with the appropriate practice. One of my worst moves was getting rid of my model 65, 4". Just my ,02
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
IMHO---EITHER ONE OF THE THREE MOUNTAIN GUNS, PICTURED BELOW, WOULD FIT THE CRITERIA. THEY ALL HAVE 4" BARRELS, AND ROUND BUTTS. THEY ARE WELL BALANCED, AND EASILY CARRIED CONCEALED IN A BELT OR SHOULDER HOLSTER.....

THEY ARE L TO R---

A M686+, 7 SHOT, IN .357 MAGNUM......

A M629, IN .44 MAGNUM......

A M625, IN .45 COLT......

THE M686 IS ACTUALLY NAMED THE "DISTINGUISHED COMBAT MAGNUM". AS SUCH, I WOULD INCLUDE MY 2 1/2" M686+, WHICH IS MY EDC, IN THIS CATEGORY AS WELL......
Oh yes... I've admired all (3) of those Revo's before... drooled to be honest! Thanks for sharing again OEJ!!! You have solid taste sir!
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:34 PM
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4” model 19 is what I envision
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:34 PM
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My 69 snubby reads combat magnum in the barrel. I’d say it qualifies. IMO.
It certainly does qualify! Pics though man, pics!
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:07 PM
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"Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum" "Your" definition of a true "Combat-Magnum"  
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Default "COMBAT"

COMBAT, to me means a gun at home with lot's of hard use! It IS NOT a gun that MAY be used SOMEDAY & more likely never. It had better be extremely tough/durable/fairly accurate & reliable with plenty of power. concealability/light weight, need not apply. L frames rule & J/K frames drool, LOL.

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Old 07-03-2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolfenn24 View Post
It's funny you bring up your CZ P-01, cause my P-01 along with my Model 19 "Combat Magnum" is my most accurate handgun. I absolutely love them both.
My P-01 just edges out my 1911 Commander... but only by 2 hairs. The "P-01" is such a special piece. It just fits my hand like a glove and is death and taxes reliable. I'm a CZ and Smith nut... Below is a pic of my CZ family!
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:14 PM
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No Highway Patrolman folk here? Much rather carry that on a tour through whatever than a Model 19. Make a good hammer, too.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:23 PM
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Combat means combat!
That said, a 686 plus in 4" is going to be the best bet. 7 shot, easy to shoot one handed. I have a 3", but would go with 4" if I was going to battle with it.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
IIRC Combat Magnum production began in 1955 with only one or two VIP guns leaving the factory prior to the 1955 Christmas holiday shutdown, regular shipment begins in 1956 .

The L frame 586/686 series is actually the "Distinguished Combat Magnum" and the fixed sight 581/681 is the "Distinguished Service Magnum".

IMO while moonclips aid extraction when using rimless rounds in a revolver and make for faster reloads when racing the clock in competition Im not sure there is any benefit to modify a .44 Magnum for moonclips unless you are using it in competition ,
If so the excessive recoil and muzzle flip of the 44 Mag cartridge would likely negate its use.
The advantage of Magnum rounds are their higher lethality from a well placed center mass shot with the focus on accuracy instead of volume of fire .
If there is a reasonable threat of multiple targets or a prolonged gunfight scenario requiring a higher volume of fire its time to consider a 15 shot 9mm semi auto with two spare mags,...In that scenario some believe a handgun is a tool best used to fight your way to your rifle or shotgun
I respect your opinion and understand your line of logic; but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. A faster and positive extraction/reload is always a desirable attribute whether in a semi or a revolver. My M29 is my to-be dedicated "Woods-Gun" for sure... But there are 2 legged problems in woods just as dangerous if not more so than any 4 legged problems... and having the ability to reload faster if the need arises is never a negative. For me, a 9mm in the woods is far better than a sharp stick... but I want the performance to deal with whatever threat might arise; whether it be a pair of mullet heads sporting cut off jean shorts or a pissed off pelt covered predator. Of which, the .44Magnum is more than capable of dispatching either type. I ran upon someone's "Science Project" in the woods before on the outskirts of Athens, Georgia while in college unbeknownst to me and my girlfriend who were innocently hiking one spring day. I'm glad we were armed to say the least!

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Old 07-03-2018, 06:34 PM
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This is my Combat Magnum, a 19-2.








I do think this 65-3 fits the description as well.



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Old 07-03-2018, 06:39 PM
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This is my Combat Magnum, a 19-2.








I do think this 65-3 fits the description as well.



Beautiful M19 John! But that 65-3 is just irresistible! What a nice pair of girls you have there!
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:11 PM
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Combat Magnum: a large bottle of champagne wielded in a fight or battle.

Assault Weapon: the champagne bottle after you’ve swung it at someone.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:19 PM
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Sure. I'll play. Combat Magnum. Ready for battle?


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Old 07-03-2018, 07:20 PM
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The TRR8/R8 is the epitome of a 21st century Combat Magnum, and the only one I would take to a modern warzone.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:20 PM
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I am sorry, but if I have to go back to war then I will be carrying a M1911 in my holster.

If I have to carry a revolver. It will be my Model 27 - 2 in 3.5 inch.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:35 PM
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M19, 66, 69.....
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
Sure. I'll play. Combat Magnum. Ready for battle?
lk
You beat me to it Lou. I dont own one but these were made for SWAT for protection while holding a riot shield.

If I had to raid my stable I would skip the 629, 460, 686 and grab the 617 and 63, a bunch of 22 subsonics and bug out like mad until it was all over.

Im not bringing any revolver into a actual gun fight
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:00 PM
Dolfenn24 Dolfenn24 is offline
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I am sorry, but if I have to go back to war then I will be carrying a M1911 in my holster.

If I have to carry a revolver. It will be my Model 27 - 2 in 3.5 inch.
About a month ago I shot for the first time my newly purchased Para Ordnance Elite 1911 and I was absolutely blown away by the accuracy of it. It is such a sweet shooter. I am now a huge fan of 1911s...so much so that I have been considering a Wilson Combat 1911.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:02 PM
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About a month ago I shot for the first time my newly purchased Para Ordnance Elite 1911 and I was absolutely blown away by the accuracy of it. It is such a sweet shooter. I am now a huge fan of 1911s...so much so that I have been considering a Wilson Combat 1911.
Save your money. Look around and find a used original Series 70 Gold Cup Colt or a Pre-Series 70 Gold Cup. Yes, you pay for the name Colt, but I would rather pay for the name Colt than Wilson. I have owned over 35 M1911's over the years, including a ParaOrd P14 custom gun. I own two M1911's now, one is in .38 Special and the other is a Series 70 Gold Cup.

Now back to the original question.................
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:48 PM
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I carried my Model 19 in SEA.
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:46 AM
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In my view, "Combat Magnum" is purely a marketing tag no doubt brainstormed by S&W's white-collars in a conference room. I doubt that Bill Jordan had any input in the naming of the adjustable sighted, 4" .357 Magnum K-frame that he was instrumental in creating. I'm pretty sure that he could have cared less what it was called, as long as it was produced and did the job for which it was intended.

As a matter of firearm semantics, "Combat Magnum" would mean that the gun in question (a revolver in this case) is/was/will be wielded in "combat", and is chambered in a designated "magnum" caliber. I posit that the type of sights don't matter a whit, nor does what is roll-marked on the barrel.

That being said, I further posit that most "Combat Magnums" should, for the sake of accuracy and reality, be called "Range Magnum", "Target Magnum", "Safe Queen Magnum", "Night Stand Magnum", "Bear Magnum", "Why Did I Buy That Damned Brutal Thing Magnum?", etc.

Hey, it's only a name... it doesn't make the gun any more lethal because of it. It's the person squeezing the trigger that does.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:03 AM
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I have twenty some different Smith revolvers. I would proably be late to the gun fight trying to decide which one to use, so many choices........
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:17 AM
Dolfenn24 Dolfenn24 is offline
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Quote:
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Save your money. Look around and find a used original Series 70 Gold Cup Colt or a Pre-Series 70 Gold Cup. Yes, you pay for the name Colt, but I would rather pay for the name Colt than Wilson. I have owned over 35 M1911's over the years, including a ParaOrd P14 custom gun. I own two M1911's now, one is in .38 Special and the other is a Series 70 Gold Cup.

Now back to the original question.................
Have you ever shot or even owned a 1911 in .38 Super? If so, what are your thoughts? I have seen a few Colt 1911s chambered in .38 Super.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:39 AM
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To me the words "combat magnum " conjur up thoughts of a 3 to 5 inch barel 357 magnum K or L frame size gun equipped with adjustable sights and wielded by someone who knows how to fight with a revolver although I must admit I personaly love my 629 44 mag but the "combat magnum " round is the 357 magnum or a 41 magnum or a 44 special . Man we live in a beautiful world with all these choices .I would love to see some of the old guys who are in shooters heaven take a look at the choices in calibers frame sizes not to mention lights and reflex sights we can have today but yea the 357 is the combat magnum well or a 41 mag or a 44--------------
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:51 AM
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Combat Magnum...My Model 19, however If I ever get dropped into another hot LZ I want my rifle either my M14 or a M4 depending upon the environment. As far as my sidearm goes my actual Combat Magnum will be my Colt M1945A1. I have a plan...revolver<1911<carbine<rifle<tank.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:55 AM
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.357 magnum...something like these











maybe this

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Old 07-04-2018, 08:57 AM
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Combat magnum= Remember that episode of star trek where Kirk was put on that planet with the lizard dude to fight to the death? What handgun would Kirk choose to punch through that thick lizard skin and put that alien down? A combat magnum ! .357 hot load jsp all the way.
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Old 07-04-2018, 09:14 AM
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Talking GET IN THAT MANY "ACTUAL" GUN FIGHTS, DO YA?

Im not bringing any revolver into a actual gun fight[/QUOTE]

I sure hope the word COMBAT does not become overused like TACTICAL. Too late???
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