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Old 07-03-2018, 08:49 AM
Practical Practical is offline
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Default Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos

I like revolver's. I enjoy shooting the and just looking at them, however, I no longer believe they are as reliable as a well designed Law Enforcement Semi-Auto.

I KNOW this is an opinion. I would like to back it up with facts but without an employee leaking information or a analysis of a revolver or long term tests we can't prove it.

It's not the lock in Smith & Wesson or the changing of manufacturing processes to MIM with all major manufacturers.

I still think they better serve a gun owning population that need a gun to stored in a home and ready for use but used seldom and given little attention.

However, I think the reliability of carried often and shot often Semi-Auto design used for LEO use is more reliable for a more active an well trained user.

The issue is basically the engineering and manufacturing processes used in today's semi-autos and their widespread use ensure manufacturers compete to win these markets and put their best products forward.

In contrast, Revolvers aside for security use in some cities in the US are consumer grade products. The LOCK demonstrates this. Even on competition models like the Competitor or Performance Center guns.

What pushed me to this post was watching a youtube video of a 7 Shot GP100 which could not close it's cylinder because some brass specs were a little too large. Maybe the rims expanded or were out of spec, but when a revolver can't be closed because of it's design when loaded the manufacturer has reached a new low. Unfortunately this is not new, I had a new Colt double action revolver fail to function with almost all brands of ammo 20+ years ago. It only held 6 rounds. Just before they stopped making revolvers. I can see why they stopped. Why ruin your reputation.

I no longer believe in revolvers...
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:53 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I still shoot them and will carry those I trust but most of them not used for competition or recreation are over 20 years old and have no locks.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:09 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Today's semi autos are better than ever. Today's revolvers seem to be slightly neglected by the factories, but it's hard to compare since there was no internet for owners to complain on back in the heyday of revolvers.

Either one, if manufactured per specs, should be about equally reliable. Both have to be cleaned regularly, but it seems revolvers need more frequent cleaning than semiautos. Both can benefit from polishing the mating surfaces.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:12 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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"Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos" Quote OP


Well you can try!
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:20 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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You can express any sort of opinion you want to on the subject. That does not make the opinion gospel. You can have a malfunction with a revolver or a self loader. Just neglect the gun long enough and it will happen.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:30 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I disagree with your reasoning but I agree with your conclusion.

Revolvers use a mechanism that is inherently fragile, or at least “not robust.” Given reasonable care, they are more than sufficiently reliable, but my assumption is that most handgun buyers (“users”? ) nowadays no longer know how to inspect and care for revolvers - nor do they have the need or interest to learn. The current craze is “high capacity,” not marksmanship, and the primary indication of this is the horrid triggers found on service-grade autoloaders.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:31 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Awhile back I did this analysis:

Revolver vs Semi-Automatic Handgun Reliability Using FMECA Approach


Summary of Results:

Modern handguns are extremely reliable. They are capable of firing many thousands of rounds with no malfunctions. In evaluating the difference in reliability between revolvers and semi-automatic handguns, the primary difference is the dependence of the gun on external factors such as user, ammo, and magazine (if a semi-automatic).
The user’s ability to properly manipulate and hold a semi-automatic is a key to semi-automatic reliability. Revolvers have less dependency upon the user than semi-automatics.

After the gun user, a gun system is most dependent upon the ammunition. Since ammunition is used once and an individual bullet can't be tested without "consuming" it, it is not possible to know with absolute certainty if a specific bullet will perform properly in a gun before using it.

Semi-automatics are more dependent than revolvers upon properly functioning ammunition since the stripping the bullet from the magazine, inserting the round into the chamber, discharge of the round, extraction of the used round, ejection of the used round, movement of the slide rearward due to ammunition discharge has significant dependences on the ammunition for properly functionality.

Semi-autos also require that magazines function properly for the gun to operate properly.

Semi-automatics have higher "first shot" reliability assuming a round has been properly inserted in the chamber.

Revolvers generally have slightly higher accuracy repeatability due to the barrel and sights being mechanically fixed.

Semi-automatics are generally less susceptible to fouling due to gun powder residue than revolvers. Hence semi-automatics generally do not need to be cleaned as often.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

System Description:
The handgun system consists of the following components:
-Gun
-Ammunition
-Magazine for semi-automatics
-User

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assumptions:
1) The gun is being maintained properly. Proper cleaning, lubrication, tightening of screws, and replacement of parts that wear (like recoil springs) are performed at recommended intervals.
2) Proper ammunition is being used.
3) The magazines used in semi-automatics are compatible with the gun.
4) The gun has been "broken in" by firing the recommended number of rounds of the recommended type.
5) The user is familiar with the gun, ammunition, magazine, etc. and handles it per the instruction manual.
6) Revolver is being shot in Double Action mode

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General Operation:

Revolver: The user opens the cylinder, inserts the rounds, and closes the cylinder. He then points the gun at the target and squeezes the trigger. The action of squeezing the trigger rotates the cylinder to align a round to the barrel and retracts the hammer. Once the trigger has be moved back far enough to release the hammer, the gun discharges the round.

Semi-Automatic: The user loads the magazine with the ammunition and inserts the magazine into the gun. He then cycles the slide to load a round in the chamber which cocks the hammer/firing pin/striker priming the firing mechanism. He then points the gun at the target, releases any safety mechanisms, and squeezes the trigger. The gun discharges the round and then cycles the slide to load another round into the chamber. The cycling of the slide re-cocks the hammer/firing pin/striker re-priming the firing mechanism.

Note that in a semi-automatic that as long as there was a round in the magazine to load into the chamber, the gun is ready to shoot the next round. After discharge in a revolver, the discharged round remains aligned with the barrel hence squeezing of the trigger (or cocking of the hammer in a single action revolver) is needed to move a live round into firing position.

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Definition of Critically Levels:

Low: Round does not discharge and/or exits the barrel but the gun is capable of discharging on next trigger squeeze.

Medium: Round does not discharge and/or exits the barrel. Manual action is required to set the gun for next use.

High: Round does not discharge and/or exits the barrel. Gun system will no longer operate.

Severe: Round does not discharge and/or exits the barrel. Damage occurs to the gun system or injury to user.

Note: Normally a probability is given for each failure mode. However there are little statistics available on these failures, hence no probabilities are used in the analysis.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A High Level Listing for Credible Failure Modes for Each Component:

The high level credible failures for reach component of the gun system (gun, ammunition, magazine, and user) are detailed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun:
The high level credible failures for revolvers and semi-automatics are detailed.

Revolver:
-Failure to properly align the cylinder to the barrel.
Results in bullet not discharging or not properly going into the barrel. Possible damage to user and gun.
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low if cylinder aligns properly on next trigger pull. Severe if injury to user or damage to gun.

-Failure to strike the primer with sufficient force to cause it to discharge the round.
Results in bullet not going into the barrel (light primer strikes)
Criticality: Low to High. Low if next rounds discharges when user squeezes the trigger to fire the next round. High if gun will no longer strike primer with enough force.


Semi-Automatic:
-Failure to properly strip a round from the magazine and insert it into the chamber.
Results in a jam.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if user can clear the jam and another round can be inserted into the chamber. Severe if jam cannot be cleared.

-Failure to strike the primer with sufficient force to cause it to discharge the round
Results in a non-discharge.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if user can cycle the slide to eject the unfired round and insert a new round into the chamber. High if unfired round cannot be cleared and new round inserted.

-Failure to eject the discharged round properly
Results in a jam.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if user can clear the jam and another round can be inserted into the chamber. High if jam cannot be cleared.

-Failure to prime the firing mechanism for the next shot.
Results in a jam.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if after user manually cycling the slide, the next rounds discharges when user squeezes the trigger to fire the next round. High if gun will no longer strike primer with enough force (light primer strikes)

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Ammunition
The high level failures of ammunition and its effect on each type of gun are detailed.

-Failure of the primer to discharge even when the primer is struck with sufficient force (dud)

Revolver: Same as a light primer strike.
Criticality: Low to High. Low if next rounds discharges when user squeezes the trigger to fire the next round. High if all subsequent rounds also do not discharge.

Semi-Automatic: Same as a light primer strike.
Criticality: Medium to High. Low if after the user manually cycles the slide, the next rounds discharges when user squeezes the trigger to fire the next round. High if all subsequent rounds also do not discharge.

-Failure of the bullet to travel fully out of the barrel due to insufficient force (squib)
Revolver: Results in cartridge discharging with bullet entering the barrel but does not exit.
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low if user does not fire next round or bullet is lightly
lodged and will exit if next round pushed it through the barrel. Severe if bullet is tightly lodged and next bullet causes barrel to explode.

Semi-Automatic: Results in cartridge discharging with bullet entering the barrel but does not exit.
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low if user does not fire next round or bullet is lightly lodged and will exit if next round pushed it through the barrel. Severe if bullet is tightly lodged and next bullet causes barrel to explode.

-Failure of the primer to discharge immediately (hang fire)
Revolver: Bullet still in shell casing
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low if user does not fire next round. Possible severe if user squeezes trigger for subsequent round and round discharges when cylinder is not aligned to the barrel causing injury to user or damage to gun.

Semi-Automatic: Bullet still in shell casing
Criticality: Medium if after user manually cycling the slide, the hang fire round is ejected, new round is inserted into the chamber properly, and the gun is ready for next use.

-Backing Out of Bullet from Shell Casing
Revolver: Can cause cylinder not to rotate
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low if bullet back out des not interfere with cylinder rotation. Possible severe if bullet backs out far enough to stop cylinder from rotating.

Semi-Automatic: Bullet stuck in magazine
Note: All most not possible because of the way the rounds are held in the magazine.
Criticality: Low to Severe. Low as long as there is not issue with feeding the backed out round. Severe if the next round cannot be fed from the magazine.

-Failure to present the round properly so it can be stripped off and inserted into the chamber.
Revolver: Not applicable
Criticality: None

Semi-Automatic: Results in a jam.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if user can clear the jam and another round can be inserted into the chamber. High if jam cannot be cleared.

-Not allowing the slide to lock back after the last round in the magazine has been fired.
Revolver: Not applicable
Criticality: None

Semi-Automatic: No Impact
Criticality: Low as user can eject magazine, insert a new one, and manually cycle the slide.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User
The high level failures of due to the user and its effect on each type of gun are detailed.

-Not properly holding the gun so as to inhibit semi-automatic from recycling properly (limp wrist)
Revolver: No Impact
Criticality: None

Semi-Automatic: Gun fires but does not cycle the slide properly causing a jam.
Criticality: Medium after user manually cycles the slide.

-Not properly loading rounds into a magazine
Revolver: No Impact
Criticality: None

Semi-Automatic: Results in a jam.
Criticality: Medium to High. Medium if user can clear the jam and another round can be inserted into the chamber. High if user must eject magazine, insert a new one, and manually cycle the slide.

-”Short Stroking” trigger (not pulling the trigger all the way)
Revolver: Gun does not fire but the cylinder rotates.
Criticality: Low as gun fires on next trigger pull

Semi-Automatic: Gun does not fire nor does the slide cycle.
Criticality: Low as gun fires on next trigger pull

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Factors to Consider:

"First shot" Reliability
A semi-automatic has an advantage over a revolver when firing its first shot (or subsequent shots if the gun has cycled properly after firing a round). The advantage for the semi-automatic is that to discharge a round, only the trigger release mechanism and the round have to function properly for the gun to discharge. This is because a round is in the chamber and the firing mechanism is "primed". In a revolver, the cylinder must cycle to align a fresh round to the barrel in order for the gun to function properly. If a revolver is being fired in “single action” mode, then this factor is negated.

Accuracy Repeatability
Assuming a gun is sighted in properly and the ammunition is consistent with what was used to sight in, there can be different point of impact based on the gun design.
Revolver: In most revolvers the sights (front and back) are structurally lined to the barrel. However the cylinder chambers are moved to alight with the forcing cone and the barrel. The alignment of the cylinder chamber to barrel varies with each chamber in the cylinder. This difference in alignment can affect the accuracy.

Semi-Automatic: Except for designs that have the barrel fixed to the frame, barrels on semi-automatics move after each shot and return to position for the next shot. Since the barrel and sights are not structurally fixed together, there can be variability from shot to shot with the barrel to sight alignment. However since the bullet is inserted snugly into the chamber which is part of the barrel, the bullet to barrel alignment is consistent from shot to shot.

Effect of gun powder residue on functionality (fouling)

When the cartridge is discharged, residue from the gun powder is propelled forward and out of the shell casing. This residue adheres to various parts of the gun mechanisms. The effect of the residue is different on a revolver versus a semi-automatic. Different ammunition produces different amount of gun powder residue. So the amount and effects of residue varies considerably between different ammunition.

Revolver:
In a revolver, the bullet is housed in the cylinder where it is discharged. The bullet and any gun powder residue are propelled forward thru the front of the cylinder, across the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone, and into the barrel. Gunpowder residue is built up in the inside of the front of the cylinder starting at the top of the shell casing, on the front of the cylinder, on the forcing cone, around the forcing cone (and frame) and in the barrel. The effect can result in the inability to eject shell casing from the cylinder, inability to insert new bullets into the cylinder, opening of the cylinder, and the cylinder not rotating properly. This effect can be observed when firing a revolver that can use both .357 Magnum and 38 Special ammunition. Since the 38 Special bullet is shorter than the .357 Magnum, if it is shot before the .357 Magnum and causes built up inside the cylinder, then issues can occur when .357 Magnum ammunition is inserted into the cylinder-it may not go all the way into the cylinder. Hence the functionality of a revolver is significantly more affected by gun powder residueand more frequent cleaning is needed.

Semi-Automatic:
Since the bullet is discharged in the chamber which is part of the barrel in a semi-automatic, the majority of the gunpowder residue goes down the barrel and ejects out the gun. Some residue comes back into the slide, magazine, and frame. Some also comes out of the barrel and adheres to the front of the barrel plus the front and sides of the slide. The amount of gunpowder residue that adheres to critical parts of a semi-automatic is significantly less than in a revolver. Hence the functionality of a semi-automatic is significantly less affected and it can function reliability for more rounds before cleaning is needed.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:04 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I own several 9mm Glocks and I own several no-lock S&W J-frame revolvers.

I consider the Glocks to be more DURABLE and tolerant of ABUSE, whereas I consider the revolvers to be more RELIABLE and tolerate of NEGLECT.

Out of the box, I have a great deal more confidence a revolver will reliably go bang over any auto. If both are in good condition and well maintained, I trust the revolvers to function reliably in any defense situation(shooting from awkward positions, with a one-handed and less than ideal grip on the weapon, in contact with assailant(s) or own body or clothing, with any ammo) over any auto.

A Glock will definitely stand-up to the abuse of shooting hundreds of rounds(without cleaning) better than one of my J-frames or a military environment, but so what. That is irrelevant to me as a civilian who doesn't abuse my carry guns. I even have a designated snub that I do most of my training and practice with and think that's a good idea regardless of the type of weapon.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:20 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Default GOOD revolvers.....

That is, those that are made for the military, law enforcement and agencies are EXTREMELY reliable if I take reasonable care in checking them before I need to shoot them. Good quality factory ammo is almost 100 per cent reliable. If a round doesn't chamber well, you throw it out and don't even load it in the gun. I use a lot of reloads and sometimes get careless with something like a high primer that will keep the cylinder from rotating. But again, with reasonable care that can be almost eliminated. I'd put my 1980s 686 and my 1960s model 36 against ANY semi or revolver on the planet as far as reliability goes.

And saying that revolvers are 'consumer grade' also applies to semi guns. What armies or agencies carry Honor Guards, Hi Points or R51s. All of these guns aren't exactly made to mil specs.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:21 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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If the considerations, thoughts and
opinions that autos are more reliable
will suppress the prices for new and
used revolvers, then I'm all for them.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:29 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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My comparison is between a Colt Pocketlite and an S&W 638:

Both are modern, professional tools.
Twice, the Colt has ejected it's magazine while in my pocket.
The S&W never malfunctioned in a carry situation.
For me, the revolver is more reliable.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:36 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I only shoot S&W revolvers in competition. I have only had 1 time since 1979 when a malfunction was the gun's fault. That was when the pivot pin sheared off the hand and it would only fire the 1st round.

In just about every match, one or more semi-autos jam and cause the owner to have a much lower score than they would have had without a jam.

I see it as a materials handling problem. In a revolver, all the rounds stay in the chamber during the firing sequence. In an auto, every round has to be gotten out of the magazine, loaded into the chamber, fired, gotten out of the chamber, then out of the action. There are 5 places in each shot where something can go wrong. Sometimes it does.

That's why I have never switched over to semi-auto. I think they are cool guns, but not as reliable as a revo.

Last edited by Toolguy; 07-03-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:45 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that any differences in reliability between good quality, properly maintainted, and properly operated semi-autos and revolvers is neglible. There may be some situations/environments where one is better than the other, but overall the difference is moot.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:46 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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My only benchmark concern has always been the "reliability" of the "man". If he who carries it is "reliable", I've no doubt his kit is "reliable".
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:47 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Ed McGivern choose to use the revolver. Larry Niemczyk
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:54 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Is this a SPAM question to generate post?
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:56 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
I only shoot S&W revolvers in competition. I have only had 1 time since 1979 when a malfunction was the gun's fault. That was when the pivot pin sheared off the hand and it would only fire the 1st round.

In just about every match, one or more semi-autos jam and cause the owner to have a much lower score than they would have had without a jam.

I see it as a materials handling problem. In a revolver, all the rounds stay in the chamber during the firing sequence. In an auto, every round has to be gotten out of the magazine, loaded into the chamber, fired, gotten out of the chamber, then out of the action. There are 5 places in each shot where something can go wrong. Sometimes it does.

That's why I have never switched over to semi-auto. I think they are cool guns, but not as reliable as a revo.
If you have a misfire with a revolver, all you do is pull the trigger again. With a semi , you have to clear the jam or chamber.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:10 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I never saw a revolver fail to fire due to limp wristing.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:13 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Training with a semi includes clearing jams and malfunction.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:15 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYlakesider View Post
"Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos" Quote OP


Well you can try!
Exactly, you are welcome to try, but in my 30 years of shooting experience there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that semis are nowhere near as reliable as a revolver. It's not even close.

Why do you think "tap, rack, bang" is still taught to every student with a semi?
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:19 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
I only shoot S&W revolvers in competition. I have only had 1 time since 1979 when a malfunction was the gun's fault. That was when the pivot pin sheared off the hand and it would only fire the 1st round.

In just about every match, one or more semi-autos jam and cause the owner to have a much lower score than they would have had without a jam.

I see it as a materials handling problem. In a revolver, all the rounds stay in the chamber during the firing sequence. In an auto, every round has to be gotten out of the magazine, loaded into the chamber, fired, gotten out of the chamber, then out of the action. There are 5 places in each shot where something can go wrong. Sometimes it does.

That's why I have never switched over to semi-auto. I think they are cool guns, but not as reliable as a revo.
Great post!
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:21 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I think the main difference between revolvers and pistols is that, in the event of a stoppage, a semi-auto can be cleared and returned to action. When a revolver on the other hand, suffers a stoppage, it is usually out of action and cannot readily be returned to firing in a heartbeat or two.

Both systems require that the user know how to clean, inspect and maintain his firearm. For example, an undetected loose extractor rod on a revolver will lock up the cylinder. This isn't a problem on the range but in a life or death situation, will you be able to detect the cause and correct it without tools so that the gun may be reloaded?

Improper reloading technique with a revolver may allow unburned powder to fall under the extractor star, raising it enough to prevent the cylinder from closing.

Yes, I use both systems in self defense but I know how to keep each system functioning and how to perform preventive inspection and maintenance.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:31 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I have owned literally dozens of revolvers. Only one time ever did i have a malfunction, but it worked when I pulled the trigger again. No time lapse, no fidgeting, no worries.

I have also owned a couple dozen semis, and almost EVERY one of them failed at one point or another. Then rack the slide, clear the jamb, try to feed another round.......bang.

Oh that bang was the other guy shooting at me.

Oh sure, some are 99.9% reliable, but its the 0.1% that bothers me.

My vote is for a revolver. I don't think anyone can "prove" otherwise.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:59 AM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I love revolvers, especially the old ones, but each day when I put on a gun belt for work or tuck my off-duty gun in my waistband, it is a high capacity polymer semi auto. There is something comforting in this day and age knowing that I have a large ammo supply at hand if needed, 50 rds on-duty, 30 rds off. I do not fall into the "spray and pray" crowd as many would argue hi-cap guns rely on. While most quality full sized revolvers are probably more "accurate" then most service grade semi's when shooting bullseyes, most of the semi's have more then adequate "accuracy" for social purposes. Modern semi's are also usually considerably lighter than service sized revolvers, which is also an important factor especially when we get a few years under the belt. I have been a firearms instructor and a competitive shooter for 30+ years and I have seen both pistols and revolvers fail on the firing line. "Reliability", as many have stated has many components to it, but I believe that there is virtually no difference in reliability between a quality revolver and a modern quality semi auto provided that each are maintained properly and both use quality ammunition. If I was mandated to carry a revolver I would feel confident in my ability to use it well and take care of business but, given a choice, I would always choice a semi auto for my primary carry handgun. Just my .02
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:13 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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...I have a routine I follow with my semi auto...

...every time I get it out I push on the bottom of the magazine to make sure nothing has brushed against the mag release and allowed the mag to drop just slightly preventing feeding...

...I also unload it a lot and rack the slide to make sure the slide is completely free and hasn't gotten a little gummy...preventing reliable feeding...

...I haven't developed a revolver routine...haven't needed to...
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:34 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Snipped quote of the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
... ... ... The issue is basically the engineering and manufacturing processes used in today's semi-autos and their widespread use ensure manufacturers compete to win these markets and put their best products forward. ... ... ... ...
Is this just another revolver vs auto thread, one of a dozen contemporaneously running at any given time? Initially, I thought so, just like another Ford vs Chevy thread in truck forums, or just another Beatles vs Led Zeppelin thread in music forums. However, review of the original post shows that the OP brings up specific angle: His thesis is that revolvers are intended for the Civilian market, and Autos are intended for the Military and Police market. Is this thesis mostly correct, or not?
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:44 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Shot 200 rounds this morning.
100 thru my new SIG P365. 3 failures to lock back when the mag was empty.
100 thru my 3" 686+. No issues.
What does this prove? Probably nothing.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:59 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
watching a youtube video of a 7 Shot GP100 which could not close it's cylinder because some brass specs were a little too large.
This is another debate that will never be settled but to this point, you can hardly blame the revolver for out of spec brass. Out of spec brass could jam any firearm.


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I no longer believe in revolvers...
Now, to this point, I think you can still believe in revolvers. I have several that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that revolvers really do exist.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:25 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali View Post
I think the main difference between revolvers and pistols is that, in the event of a stoppage, a semi-auto can be cleared and returned to action. When a revolver on the other hand, suffers a stoppage, it is usually out of action and cannot readily be returned to firing in a heartbeat or two.
Ok, I will bite. Using toolguys one stoppage (broken part) since 1979 (39 years), and let's say he goes to a match every 90 days (154 since 1979) and in each match "one or more Semi Autos jam" let's say 1.5x 154= 231 jams.

In 231 jams was ONE and end of match jam? A broken part? Did tap, rack, bang work 231/231 times?
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:28 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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For the average untrained person, a revolver is more "reliable" in that you do not have to be concerned with cycling and the safety under severe stress. I have seen numerous semi-auto failures to fire by people qualifying for concealed carry licenses in every class. I know revolvers can fail, but I have never seen it. Yes, if you train with semi-autos enough all of this can be overcome, but how many people (present company excepted) really do that?
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:31 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I haven't read through the comments, so excuse me if I'm stating previously stated opinions. I think that revolvers may not be more reliable than semi-autos when you add the reloading the gun into the equation. Maybe even less reliable.

First, there's the problem of ejecting spent shells; some cartridges might expand or some cylinder bores may not be smooth enough to allow easy extraction. I've had also some cylinders on some revolvers bind a little bit after stout or heavily loaded rounds so that releasing and opening the cylinder required some effort.

Second, revolver speed loaders and strips are far more awkward to use quickly than semi-auto magazines. True, that may not be an issue of the gun actually failing, but it is a matter of the gun not being able to be reloaded as quickly, whatever the cause.

Having said that, if you limit the reliability comparison to the rounds that are loaded in the gun, and don't consider reloading, the revolver is more reliable. I mention this because the statistics I've read so many times say that the typical self defense gunfight is over after just a few rounds. In that scenario, I'd rather have a revolver. Nobody ever limp wristed a revolver, and revolvers are less picky as to the brand and type of ammo they use, despite the recent improvements in semi-auto reliability. I have a nice newer Ruger SR40c that'll eat almost everything, but won't cycle Winchester white box at all.

Of course, these are all generalizations. There are many semi-autos that are ultra reliable and a few revolvers that have problems.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:37 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I have converted my handgun-owning to mostly revolvers (with the exception of two semi-autos that I'm very fond of: a Colt Commander in .45acp and a Walther PP in .380). Neither of these are finicky.

I'm much more at ease with my Smith & Wesson revolvers. I have a sense of security that each will operate as it should when I am in front of the respective target. I have never had a revolver malfunction (but have had ammunition misfunctions as we all do from time-to-time). I trust that my revolvers are going to fire as they should, while even with my two trusted semi-autos there will always be a hang-up once in awhile for any number of reasons - any of which is unacceptable.

Sounds to me like you have been acquainted with a few lemons, no?
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:51 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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You guys are totally right! Revolvers ARE less reliable than semi-autos! Totally true!
Please sell me all your vintage "one of a kind" revolvers, especially those Lou Horton's and what not.
I will dispose of them in a tasteful and admirable way! No reason to keep them anymore!
Gotta get me one of those fancy shmancy polymers now. To keep my shield 9 company. With those clipazines and such.



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Old 07-03-2018, 01:58 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I'll wait to post my opinion after someone shows me a legitimate picture of a revolver that stovepiped.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:01 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
I consider the Glocks to be more DURABLE and tolerant of ABUSE, whereas I consider the revolvers to be more RELIABLE and tolerate of NEGLECT.

I agree with this. My current carry revolver is a very neglected Model 36 with a 3 inch bbl that I picked up recently for $180. It had been stored - for years, I presume - in a very wrong environment that had allowed it to rust. Not much rust in the lockwork, however, and none in the bore.

I tried to clean it up with bronze wool and kroil, but it was too far gone and pitted, so I just took some 220 grit emory cloth and it took the rust right off. It's nice to have a great quality and reliable model 36 that I don't worry about scratching when I carry. Gun works great - a testimony to a good quality revolver's tolerance of neglect.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:07 PM
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No this is not spam.

I was hoping for a more 'engineering' based answer. I am not a mechanical engineer, but have electrical and software engineering experience. My knowledge of mechanical reliability is basically none.

The comments here agree with my experience. I have found Glocks, Pre-lock J-Frames and N Frame competition models with Locks to be extremely reliable. I have only had ONE J-frame fail due to a broken part and I have had my glocks fail in competition due to me breaking off a adjustible rear site.

However, other brands and firearm types have failed me right out of the box or shortly after. Colt's including double action revolvers and 1911s, Kahr's, and a Beretta.

I tend to watch reviews closely and am disheartened when I see brand new guns failing regularly or having minor issues that preclude their use in competition or self defense. The issue of the GP100 7 shot is an example of why I don't think most new revolver's can be trusted based on the engineering processes that bring them to us.

I am not saying all the guns today are bad, I am saying SOME of the processes used to make them are NOT suitable for creating a competition gun or self defense product. I think MOST revolvers today are relegated to the 'consumer' side of the house where the assumption is that these guns may require a customer service call at a rate higher than the Semi-Autos used in LEO.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:12 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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The fact is, any mechanical thing can fail. Any manufactured thing can be less than optimum. Very few of these things are found to be unreliable across the board. The only reports of unreliability we can trust are those of our own personal experience and even those can be suspect depending on the experience and knowledge of the operator (me!).

What makes me dumbfounded are the incidences of anyone who purchases a new gun and immediately begin to depend on it to work when needed without ever firing a shot through it or maybe just a cylinder or mag full. I’ve had and handled cases of unreliability in both type of guns mentioned here. Some cases were easily remedied after which the gun was proven to be as reliable as anyone could hope it to be. A few others cases required the permanent retirement of the firearm for serious uses (personal protection requirements).

Even a good quality reliable gun can fail because the owner operator does not maintain it properly. In my own case, there have been times past when I wanted to blame the gun for something that was caused or allowed unintentionally to happen that resulted in failure or less than optimum performance. But an honest assessment revealed that the cause was due completely or in part by operator error ... me!

Any platform can fail at some point in time. Nothing is totally reliable forever! The guns themselves haven’t basically changed much over the years. There have been a few that should never been offered for sale among both types. But there is a great deal of “change” in operators all along the way, including this operator. The guns that I own and use have been thoroughly tested and vetted and proven reliable to me. If a problem arises, that gun is “off duty” till the problem is found and cured and then tested again. All these guns are periodically tested across the board to make sure they are still worthy of my trust.

Having and carrying and depending on a firearm involves a great responsibility by the firearm’s owner. The firearm is incapable of doing anything by itself! It’s my responsibility to test and maintain each and every firearm I own and to make responsible choices among them. That is on me, never on the firearm. I’ve sent some packing of both types, but only after I had good reason to do so, including the reason that I just didn’t like it even though it worked.

I’m not picking on any one here. I understand the question. And it’s an interesting one to contemplate. But the answer to that question is ... well, it depends! And it depends a great deal on who’s asking and who’s answering! That includes me!
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:14 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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...never seen an unsupported brass failure in a revolver...



...OP should have just said "I like semi-autos over revolvers"...

...would have saved a lot of bandwidth...
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:18 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I've seen both semis and revolvers fail. New and old.

Anything made by man can and eventually will fail.

Next.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:28 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion520AZ View Post
My only benchmark concern has always been the "reliability" of the "man". If he who carries it is "reliable", I've no doubt his kit is "reliable".
And this pretty much sums it up for me! You take the time to get to know your weapon inside and out; you maintain and train with it and use quality ammo. If I had to estimate how many rounds I've slung down range since I've been shooting... I started at 20year old and I'm 40 now... I'd comfortably say I've pulled a trigger 50 to 60 thousand times in various platforms... 1911's, Glocks, M&P's, CZ's, Smith & Colt revolvers of various calibers. In all that time and rounds shot I can count also comfortably say I've experienced maybe a couple dozen failures. That is a hell of a track record if you ask me. And half of those failures were due to quality branded factory ammo that simply had a round or two out of spec, i.e. a case length that was a half a millimeter too long, a primer that popped it's pocket, the bullet's OAL too long/short, etc... The other's I remember were worn/over stressed and fatigued magazine springs... 1911's, albeit my absolute favorite semi-auto's suffer the most from spring fatigue in my experience. I put my revo's and semi-auto's to be on par in reliability and bet my life on them almost every day. I work in Real Estate and my downtown Atlanta office is two blocks away from the CNN Center... not a very savory side of the city. Common sense and putting 300-400 trouble free rounds down the pipe of a semi-auto before CCW-ing it is a must. 200 of the same with any quality revo is a must too. YMMV...

ETA: The above round count and failure count excludes any and all .22Rimfire cartridges of course... I was strictly talking about centerfire cartridges!

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Old 07-03-2018, 02:36 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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I carried a revolver for the first 20 years of my career and had to use it to defend myself three times so I do trust that platform. We transitioned to Glocks in my last 10 years and saw few, if any problems, with either weapon system. As a retiree I continue to carry a revolver b/c that’s where my comfort level is, but I no longer run into gunfire or otherwise look for trouble. Modern auto loaders make sense for today’s LEO and I would not feel comfortable w/o one on the street today.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:42 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Originally Posted by dr. mordo View Post
Exactly, you are welcome to try, but in my 30 years of shooting experience there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that semis are nowhere near as reliable as a revolver.
Ditto from me - except make that 50 years.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:43 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Does it really matter? People are going to carry what they feel best suites them. Same as they drive vehicles that best suites them.

Most guns go boom when the trigger is pulled, if they don't replace them.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:43 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
You guys are totally right! Revolvers ARE less reliable than semi-autos! Totally true!
Please sell me all your vintage "one of a kind" revolvers, especially those Lou Horton's and what not.
I will dispose of them in a tasteful and admirable way! No reason to keep them anymore!
Gotta get me one of those fancy shmancy polymers now. To keep my shield 9 company. With those clipazines and such.



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Ain't that the truth. I love the "Lew Horton Specials"... I just got my Smith & Wesson Historical Society letter yesterday stating the history of my new to me 85' manufactured LWS, 3" barreled .44Magnum/Special... I think this is my favorite Revo I've ever held and shot!
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:48 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Originally Posted by Practical View Post

What pushed me to this post was watching a youtube video of a 7 Shot GP100 which could not close it's cylinder because some brass specs were a little too large. Maybe the rims expanded or were out of spec, but when a revolver can't be closed because of it's design when loaded the manufacturer has reached a new low.
Try out of spec ammo in a semi...
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:54 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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..............

Last edited by bigggbbruce; 07-03-2018 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:00 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe44va View Post
Shot 200 rounds this morning.
100 thru my new SIG P365. 3 failures to lock back when the mag was empty.
100 thru my 3" 686+. No issues.
What does this prove? Probably nothing.
You're correct. I mean, your 686 didn't lock back either when it was empty.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:05 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
With those clipazines and such.
Lou, I think the clipazines are exclusive to 9 mmmm mmmm G Locks.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:08 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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No reasonably experienced shooter is surprised when a semi-auto gun malfunctions - they are trained to expect it.

On the other hand, revolver malfunctions are indeed a surprise. Most reasonably experienced shooters have not experienced such an event.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:09 PM
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Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos Can we show Revolver's are not as reliable as today's Semi-Autos  
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Revolver for reliability and simplicity.
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