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Old 08-01-2018, 10:58 AM
4306 4306 is offline
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Question Why is frame material missing on my J frame?

Noticed a rather severe bevel milled/forged on my 442 and wondered why this area is apparently weakened. The area is opposite the yoke and to the rear of the serial number/model number. (sorry no pic) Thanks
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:12 AM
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame?  
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Well I think you will have to post a picture for someone to be able to tell you about it! I once sold a revolver to a person who thought the stop that keeps the cylinder from sliding off the yoke when the cylinder was open was a severe flaw!

Ed
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:09 PM
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unable to attach file
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame?-fscn0537-jpg  
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:27 PM
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unable to attach file
This is a yoke..? right..?
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
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unable to attach file
Nothing missing here.
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:52 PM
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Got a New In Box J frame Mod# 360j from my local gun store in June with that area shown in your picture that was a lot worse.
Sent it to S&W Customer Service for repair of 1- cylinder rubbing against forcing cone when opening and closing causing scratches on the front of the cylinder and 2- yoke rubbing on frame when closing (material gouged).
Got gun back with the bolt replaced that took care of #1 issue and #2 issue was considered a Non Issue by CS.
Hope that helps!
If it gets worse or really bothers you give CS a call.

Be SAFE and shoot often!

Last edited by Execpro; 08-01-2018 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:23 PM
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I am not concerned with the wear at the lock up point. The frame under the barrel and below the cylindrical groove, immediately to the rear of the serial number has the edge beveled at an angle. This bevel will cause a gap at the yoke when the cylinder is closed.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:26 PM
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the actual beveled edge appears in my image as the mottled/spotted surface.
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:42 PM
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The bevel is part of the frame design, just above the yoke pivot. My 438 has the same feature. It appears to provide extra clearance at the gas ring, perhaps to prevent buildup when doing a lot of shooting and allow smooth function without cleaning so often?
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Old 08-01-2018, 01:48 PM
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Things like this are kind of like bugs you see for the first time---never mind they've been around forever.

You don't know if they can kill you or not!

This one can't.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:13 PM
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All of my K,L, and N frame revolvers have a squared off edge to the frame in this area. This area is below the gas ring.
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
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This bevel will cause a gap at the yoke when the cylinder is closed.
To what detriment..?
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:37 PM
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I think my curiosity about this feature is misunderstood. I am not implying my revolver is a ***. I am interested to know why S&W made this engineering change to my J frame and not K,L,and N frames.
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:51 PM
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame?  
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Quote:
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I think my curiosity about this feature is misunderstood.

I agree, it is a strange bevel. I think I will look at images online and just to see if it is on all of the j frames.
Ed
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:02 PM
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExcitableBoy View Post
My 438 has the same feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4306 View Post
I am interested to know why S&W made this engineering change to my J frame and not K,L,and N frames.
Maybe.. now just maybe.. the alloy J frames are done this way..

My 60 wasn't.. but it's SS
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:05 PM
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It is on the aluminum frame ones, not on the steel and I don't know why.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:12 PM
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My BAD! Looked at my J frame (scandium frame) and it is squared off with NO beveled edge.
It does have a quarter moon cut out relief so the bottom of the yoke will fit into the frame when closed.

Last edited by Execpro; 08-01-2018 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 03:50 PM
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Maybe so it doesnt grab and cut skin on speed reloads.
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:15 PM
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My 642 developed that same wear mark on the frame and also I noticed some minor pitting on the inside of the recoil shield just above the firing pin bushing. I'm not worried about it. I consider it normal wear & tear from use.
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:15 PM
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Again, NOT discussing wear on the frame. Addressing a beveled edge formed during manufacture.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:14 PM
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My M&P340 has that same bevel. It's definitely machined that way on purpose (at least on mine it is).

Last edited by 1sailor; 08-01-2018 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:30 PM
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My M317-3, which is, of course, an alloy J-frame, and about 8 months old, has that bevel. It's symmetric and neatly done, and anodized along with the rest of the frame. Definitely part of the CAD/CAM program that machined the frame, so you know it's there on purpose. Never noticed it until today.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:34 PM
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I've examined the picture closely and I believe what we are looking at is a small piece of black vinyl electrical tape stuck to the frame. This might prevent the cylinder from closing completely.


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Old 08-01-2018, 07:38 PM
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame?  
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duplicate..

Last edited by bigggbbruce; 08-02-2018 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:41 PM
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Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame? Why is frame material missing on my J frame?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTalonJHP View Post
I've examined the picture closely and I believe what we are looking at is a small piece of black vinyl electrical tape stuck to the frame. This might prevent the cylinder from closing completely.


Good eyes.. But no..

Tape is to cover Ser# so we can't steal the gun..
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sailor View Post
My M&P340 has that same bevel. It's definitely machined that way on purpose (at least on mine it is).
My 340 PD does not have the OP's feature. It is square all the way up and down that part of the frame.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:51 PM
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My 438 and 638-2 have the same bevel.

Weight reduction?????
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:34 AM
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My recent production 642-1 has the same bevel. I never noticed it until this post and honestly thought mine was squared off. I've owned it for almost a year!

Also, I don't think it weakens the frame in any way. It's a pretty small bevel.

Last edited by indie_rocker; 08-02-2018 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:22 AM
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Checked a couple 642's, same bevel cut. This is a real stumper so I'm going with the old standby explanation for past bevel cuts in weird places.

It's a black powder bevel/chamfer !

That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
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My 340 PD does not have the OP's feature. It is square all the way up and down that part of the frame.
What's the vintage?
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:07 AM
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This thread got me curious so I checked my accumulation of alloy-framed J's. I found one, a 637-2 purchased new in 2007 that did NOT have a beveled frame as depicted by the OP. This gun (serial prefix DAJ) appears to be late 2006 production, special order code 6284.

Of the other four alloy J's, all are of more recent production (one in 2012, two in 2015 and one in 2017). All of these have the frame bevel. I don't know why it's there, but they all shoot like they are supposed to.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernel Crittenden View Post
What's the vintage?
That is the right question. If production changed at some point, from non numerically controlled machining to numerically controlled, then someone wrote a set of commands that moved tools. Tool paths are critical to the tool not hitting stuff that it shouldn't hit, and to speed production. Some machined "features" are produced by the programmer choosing a specific tool path and are not requested by Engineering. I'm not saying this did happen, just floating a possibility.

Another possibility- the company has a lot of problems with small cracks in their forgings. The cracks show up in the same area. They scrap the bad forgings but worry about tiny unseen cracks slipping through. So they just start machining that area off all the time. Again I'm not saying this happened, it is just a thought.

So if this shows up after a certain date the ideas I raised are possible explanations. In either case Engineering should have been asked, "Is this ok?" Generally they are asked. Not always.
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:49 PM
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My 442-1 no lock 2013 production has it.
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:33 AM
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Maybe S&W is farming out some of it's production to Ruger.
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe S&W is farming out some of it's production to Ruger.
Well the OP made no mention of it rattling when he handled the gun so I'm thinking Ruger had no role to play here.
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:09 AM
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Ok so I took a closer look at my 642-2 model and yes, mine also has that bevel that you guys are talking about... I can't seem to figure out for what reason it's there other than perhaps prevent/reduce fouling.
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:00 AM
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Neither of my J frames has that bevel. They are a 642-2 purchased late 2005,
and a 63-5 purchased mid 2018. Both purchased new
I think Pondoro, in post 32 may be right. Could be to facilitate machining processes.
Steve W

Last edited by Stevens; 08-04-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:15 PM
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Just picked up an M&P 340 and it has the bevel.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:38 PM
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My circa 2002 442-2 does not have the bevel. It DOES show wear in that area that if it was beveled would not be there.

SO I'm thinking it was a design change to prevent the wear. When it happened I have no idea.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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4306

What that comes from is the fancy yoke screw on the current production models has a plastic spring loaded tip. Let's the tip of the yoke screw drift a bit fore and aft with the crane movement.

And or a little vertical play between the yoke stud O.D. that slides into the frame and the I.D. of the hole it slides into.

A couple thou is all it takes to make it rub.

Both will make the crane to rub against the frame and create the spot you are showing.

My 329PD has a bit of the same thing going on. The 438 doesn't have it yet.

When I get time I'm going to order an old school solid yoke screw and fit it in the 329. If the solid yoke screw doesn't work in the new production frames I'll wind up firing up the machines and making a new yoke screw for mine.
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