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Old 08-09-2018, 04:52 AM
duqjans duqjans is offline
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I'm in possession of a model 64-4 with a 2" barrel in .38 special. For some dark reason, the serialnumber in the bottom of the butt has been made deliberately unreadable. It has, I think, 7 digits. On the yoke, there are 3 digits (034, eventually O34). On the right hand side of the buttframe, there are 7 digits (7816 034 or O34) Is this also the original serialnumber of the gun an if so, can somebody date the period of construction of the gun?
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:53 AM
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If the serial number on the butt has been made illegible the gun is not legal to possess per the Gun control act of 1968. It maybe possible that the number you see stamped on the grip frame was done by someone with permission from BATF. Maybe not. If a new number is stamped per BATF, I am not aware of any paperwork needed to retain. It is not an original number as all serial numbers for quite some time prior to the introduction of stainless guns had a letter prefix. Some models do have the serial number in the yoke cut, but it would not be 034.

If you were ever stopped with it and serial number checked it could be a problem. The obscured original numbers would cause suspicion I am sure.

I was at a pawnshop in Billings MT and they had a 32 S&W had the serial number over marked then a new one stamped. I asked about it and was told it had been done by the sheriffs dept. I walked away. ONe reason was the possible hassle. I don't need any gun hassles.

Any way you can trace the history of the ownership?

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Old 08-09-2018, 06:03 AM
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Welcome and sorry .

The 64-4 dates to about 1988. 30 years or more before this the serial number was stamped in several different areas on the gun but at that time it was only put on one place. Certain revolvers of this era have the serial number engraved or etched on the left frame, under the cylinder window; this would have been three letters and four digits. If there are no marks here or on the flat bottom of the grip frame, unfortunately your best recourse is to strip the parts off and turn the frame into your local law enforcement agency.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by duqjans View Post
I'm in possession of a model 64-4 with a 2" barrel in .38 special. For some dark reason, the serialnumber in the bottom of the butt has been made deliberately unreadable.
I see that you’re in a country that has more restrictive gun laws than we do in the USA. I wouldn’t possess a gun like that and you would be well advised to surrender it to the authorities.

The “dark reason” for obliterating a serial number is to prevent tracing ownership, either because it was stolen or used for criminal purposes. If you want to own a handgun, go through the proper channels and purchase one legally.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:46 AM
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Thank you, gentlemen. I agree that a gun with a destroyed serial number is a very good reason to be cautious. It even becomes highly suspicious as it was found, cleaning a cesspool so it has been turned in already. Actually, it's lying on my desk for further investigation (yes, I'm a cop) and that seven digit number puzzles me. History of the gun? Belgian proofmarks, 1992. I'll try to post some pictures (first visit-first post, it's not that easy).Yes, Belgium 's calling for some help.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:20 AM
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Default serial number, some pictures

In attachment, some pictures of the gun. "Serial number" on the right hand side of the butt reads as 7816 034. The digits seem to have that typical "edged look" I saw earlier from S & W so it seems to me they are factury-made.
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serialnumber-dsc_3447-1-jpg   serialnumber-dsc_3449-1-jpg   serialnumber-dsc_3452-1-jpg   serialnumber-dsc_3453-1-jpg  
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:20 AM
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I note there is no mainspring evident in the gun. Has this gun been disabled? None of those numbers appear to be factory stamped.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:40 AM
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The extra numbers are factory internal codes that cannot help with the true serial number.

One possibility is that the bottom of the grip frame can be smoothed out and the serial number raised by applying a chemical to the area. I have read about this being done but have no details about the specifics.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:57 AM
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The 034 is an assembly number. It is used to keep the frame and any fitted parts together at the factory.

There is no other spot where the serial number would be located on this model.

With Modern Smith and Wessons, the serial number is always on the the butt of the revolver. With the models that ship with grips that cover the butt, the serial number is also placed in a second (easily accessible) location. Usually, but not always, under the crane

Someone knew that using a punch to obscure the number is far more effective than filing or grinding it off.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:15 PM
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I note there is no mainspring evident in the gun. Has this gun been disabled? None of those numbers appear to be factory stamped.
The spring was broken in two and came out of the gun after removing the side plates. I presume it went in pieces because of the punches on the frame.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:26 PM
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The extra numbers are factory internal codes that cannot help with the true serial number.

One possibility is that the bottom of the grip frame can be smoothed out and the serial number raised by applying a chemical to the area. I have read about this being done but have no details about the specifics.
Well yes, I know this method exists but it only works with shallow scratches. These punches seem very deep, on purpose it seems. As it is a gun with Belgian proof marks, maybe a consult of the archives of the proofhouse can reveil something more...
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:51 PM
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Welcome to the Forum! Maybe longshot, but number on side of frame might be import number when brought into Belgium. Good luck and please keep us informed, we all love a mystery!
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:42 AM
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I'd cut the gun in half and keep it!
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duqjans View Post
In attachment, some pictures of the gun. "Serial number" on the right hand side of the butt reads as 7816 034. The digits seem to have that typical "edged look" I saw earlier from S & W so it seems to me they are factury-made.
Was that the one hidden behind the water closet in The Godfather?
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duqjans View Post
Well yes, I know this method exists but it only works with shallow scratches. These punches seem very deep, on purpose it seems. As it is a gun with Belgian proof marks, maybe a consult of the archives of the proofhouse can reveil something more...
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
The extra numbers are factory internal codes that cannot help with the true serial number.

One possibility is that the bottom of the grip frame can be smoothed out and the serial number raised by applying a chemical to the area. I have read about this being done but have no details about the specifics.
As an old auto theft detective (however this is not an old auto, ha), I can tell you that raising a stamped serial number that has been ground off is possible using the acid method as stamping stresses the metal far below the surface and a ground off number will appear as a shadow. I went to a school for this and have actually used the method with success. However, punching out the serial number as opposed to grinding it off (taught in the school) makes it almost impossible to raise as the punching also stresses the metal below the surface. I assume whoever did this new exactly what they were doing, deliberately obscuring the number so it cannot be raised.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duqjans View Post
Thank you, gentlemen. I agree that a gun with a destroyed serial number is a very good reason to be cautious. It even becomes highly suspicious as it was found, cleaning a cesspool so it has been turned in already. Actually, it's lying on my desk for further investigation (yes, I'm a cop) and that seven digit number puzzles me. History of the gun? Belgian proofmarks, 1992. I'll try to post some pictures (first visit-first post, it's not that easy).Yes, Belgium 's calling for some help.
I have never heard of a gun that can clean a cesspool.
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