I wonder if S&W would ever consider offering their XVR frame in 357 Remington Maximum? I think that it would be an excellent frame/caliber combination.

If you're seeking a high capacity .357 Magnum Revolver with some heft to it for shooting comfort, then I suggest looking into the Ruger Redhawk in .357 Magnum.

The XVR Frame would be absurdly big and heavy for a revolver chambered in .357 Magnum.

From someone who shoots a 1984 vintage Redhawk in 357, please note that this thing is a beast in its own right, and it can handle just about any load that can fit in that massive cylinder.

That having been said, I really respect this firearm and always keep my handloads well within max limits....

Despite who knows how many rounds down the tube, the cylinder exhibits zero endshake and barely perceptable lateral movement. Just a pleasure to handle such a large framed revolver with that snug a cylinder...



Bayou52

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Bayou52
NRA Life Member

The X-frame would be a very good candidate for the 357 Maximum cartridge.

It could probably be a 10 shooter

These days I just keep the 357 Maximum in my Dan Wessons

Maximum, not magnum. Heavy is good when shooting full bore Max's.

Yep, I would be very interested in a 8-10 shot 357 Mag X frame revolver. I like the 357 Max cartridge myself. I used to have a 357 Max BH that I foolishly sold around 4 years ago and I sincerely regret it. The frame opening on an X frame is plenty big enough to swallow the Max, where a Redhawk or N frame Smith isn't. The 357 Max Blackhawk had a specially sized frame to handle that long (for a pistol) cartridge.

I load mine to .360DW levels. Like a walk in the park.

^^^^ Very nice grips on your RH!

Bayou52

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Bayou52
NRA Life Member

Thanks. Helps with balance.

A 6 shooter .357 Redhawk is a dream gun of mine. But I’ve heard the extremely heavy cylinder can batter the bolt in fast DA shooting?

Must admit I was shocked just shocked to see pictures of a RH here .that said ( speaking in a low whisper) it sure is purty ain't it boys.

It's all personal preference, but I don't get the need for that, unless maybe if it was a 10-shot (which would be interesting to see). The N-Frame .357 8-round revolvers are overbuilt for a .357 as is, the X-Frame would be even more overkill.

On that note, I own a 627, it's a great frame for .357.

*EDIT*
I'm dumb...I just noticed you were talking about Maximum, not magnum, sorry. A .357 Maximum in an X-frame would be pretty neat.

I believe the N-frame is great for .357, you will never get me to agree that the N-frame is "over built" for .357 Mag. I'd also say the N-frame is UNDER-built for .44 Magnum.

Add me to two lists: I agree that the Redhawk .357 (six shot) is awesome, and I also think the X-frame would be fantastic for .357 Rem Max. I think 8-shot would be fine.

Of course, I also want to see a Redhawk chambered in .327 Federal, 10-shots. That would be a riot!

The 357 Maximum is my favorite caliber. I shoot 100 yard + steel and the Max was designed for that silhouette game. Less recoil by far than the 44 mag and still flat shooting at distance.

The downside is that you have to be a handloader. The rounds are right around $2 EACH. My reloads are $.16 and scary accurate.

T/C (Contender, G2, and Encore), United Sporting Arms, Magnum Research Lone Eagle, Ruger, and Dan Wesson made awesome firearms for the 357 Max.

Ruger gets more than a few requests to revive the Maximum to no avail. Ignorant writers of the media killed it. I would buy anything built to shoot the Max, but I just don't think it's going to happen.


Prescut

I think you and I are on the same page. Having owned a Ruger Super Redhawk in 44 and now a 629 in the same, I agree completely, I do not feel the N frame is built to handle the beating a SR can take. Even shooting the hottest of the hot, my SR never flinched and not once did I feel any aspect of it would fail.

I will gladly shoot, and love my 629...but it will eat a steady diet of spcl with occasional magnums and never see the super hot stuff. In contrast, I have no shame popping round after round of .357 magnum through my 627.

the gun writers got mad because Ruger let some IHMSA shooters have first chance to look at the 357 max and shoot it. that made the gun writers mad because they always thought that they should get be able shoot and write about it before us ordinary shooters have a chance. the 357 max in a TC 14 inch is an awesome gun. when loaded with a full charge of H-110 it really barks

I think a good host for the .357 Max would be the Ruger 77/357 bolt action rifle. You'd need to ream the chamber and it would be a single shot affair as you'd never fit them in the magazine, but there is no doubt the rifle is built solidly to handle it.

With the ability to withstand 65K psi pressure, a number of cartridges can be fired from an X frame

I personally would like them to redesign a Winchester Model 92 clone type gun to take the longer cartridge of the 357 Max myself. Having 8-9 of those in a lever gun would be seriously cool. The action is strong enough, but I think that the feed mechanism would have to be redesigned.

And you other folks who keep talking about 357 Mag, a Redhawk or an N frame would have to be stretched in the cylinder area to fit a 357 Max round through it. Here is an old pic of the 357 Max Blackhawk I used to own next to my 27-2 5" gun and you can see how much longer the cylinder is on the BH to be able to swallow a Max cartridge.

Reading the above posts it seems a lot of people forget why the max fell out of favor - flame cutting of the top strap on revolvers. The max pre-dated the X-frame, so the extra thick top strap may lend itself well to that high-intensity cartridge.

I have a TC Contender with a 10" barrel chambered in max and it is the most brutally recoiling handgun I own - and I did play "that silhouette game" and shot that Contender with a 10" .30 Herrett barrel and an XP100 in .308 Winchester, and it is worse than both of those - or maybe I'm just getting older (and smarter).

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

I'm surprised that there are this many fans of the .357 Max on here! Because I'm one of them!

A buddy, back in the 80's had a TC Contender 14" in .357 Max and it made me a big fan. It has long range, power and accuracy. Unfortunately, the revolver side of the MAX freaked out with the "flame cutting phenomenon" which spread down to the .357 Mag.

It is the perfect, uber accurate, powerful round that should be found readily.
Locally, many informed shooters re-chambered single shot H&R Handy-Gun rifles with scopes in .357 Mag to MAX and have made many 200 yd deer rifle kills. Unfortunately, the major manufactures failed to pick up on this and make a Win 92/94, Ruger 77, Rem 77/700, Savage or Henry in .357 MAX and could have picked up and promoted on the Great Mid American rifle round.

Alas, for the past 20 years or so the MAX has been a bad word when it should have become the norm!

I would LOVE to see S&W make the X frame available in .357 MAX in 8/9/or 10 round versions. It's the ultimate Mid American deer cartridge!

I also own a newer 627-8 and just love this gun. I put a set of KSD Grips in wood on it which makes it look great. It shoots great as well also. I mostly just shoot the 38 spec in it but do enjoy the high powered 357 rounds a lot as well.I think its a much better looking gun then the Ruger's myself.

They just are better looking. The GP100 is a decent looking firearm, the Redhawk is ok and the Super Redhawk is one of the more ugly firearms I've ever seen.

The SR is built like a tank but man, is it ugly.

I bought a Ruger Blackhawk 357 Max back when they first came out in 1983 (I think). Shot competition loaded with IMR 4227. I sent it back to Ruger when they recalled them back in 1984 (I think). They just sent us a coupon/credit for another ruger product and ceased making the caliber. I shot a Thompson contender for a while before I got a DW Supermag. Dan Wesson solved the top strap cutting issue by lowering the cylinder gap to .002”. The only issue with the Dan Wesson was cylinder binding when there was build-up around the forcing cone.
I currently have a ruger BH that I found a few years ago NIB at a gun show and I have 2 Dan Wesson supermags. Still shoot the supermags once in a while.
George

I've no experience with the .357 Max., but do recall in the days of gun magazines (remember those?) there was much talk of flame cutting of the top-strap, and supposedly that's why Ruger discontinued it? Am I right?

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

Had a .357 MAX hunter barrel for the Contender. It was a total of 12” with a muzzle break, made it easier to shoot. Sold it last winter and bought a 20” Bullberry rifle barrel in .357 MAX and have yet to shoot it. Cool looking with a High Plains full length forend on it. Always thought a rifle in .357 MAX would be a nice gun for plinking or deer hunting. I reload for it and use the starting load, not the max. The Ruger 77 bolt action would be a great platform for the cartridge. Larry

Correct, Ruger only made about 3000 of the BH’s in 357 Max before they recalled. They are a bit of a collectors item now.
I believe Savage made their Model 24 (over and under rifle/shotgun combo) in a 357 Max but they are also a collectors item.

the flame cutting would only go so far like maybe .015 or so deep and then stop. it would not cause any safety issue. if you used a powder like 4227 and use 158 grain bullets or heavier there wasn't any problems

No, my reading of history is a bit different. Bill Ruger was very definite about not using lighter than 158gr bullets.
There were shooters who ignored that in order to "hot rod" the blackhawk using much lighter bullets in order to push their velocities above the 2000fps zone. These are the guys the writers referenced about flame cutting without reporting the miss-use of the lighter bullets. Even with miss-use, the flame cutting did not continue past initial cutting.
And yes, it appears many writers like Bob Milek did it out of spite.
I am never surprised now to read people who still believe the BS spread by the gun community's version of MSM and fake news.

There are stories by folks who were there of Bill Ruger getting pissed about his baby being raked over the coals unfairly. Attorneys advised him to not go up against the media and so he caved. Ruger destroyed several thousand of these most beautiful weapons ever manufactured. Upsets me today that Bill knew that flame cutting was a joke.

Singleactions has great definitive history from Lee Martin, David Bradshaw, and collector's like Coogs.

Lee and David just designed the ultimate bullet for the 357 Maximum just this last summer (there's a new mold). The cult around the 357 Max is still strong.


Prescut

Wow! I never thought of that one. It would be perfect and of small size.
Does Ruger still make the small SS bolt actions with the plastic stocks?

IIRC, flame cutting was only a problem with light bullets - and even then stopped on it's own.....

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Merle, retired
western PA

I have 2 super blackhawks, one DW 740 and 3 contender barrels chambered in 357 maximum. If someone made a new gun in that cartridge I'd be the first in line.

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-Matt

If I hear about it first you'll be second in line. I'm surprised that one member found recoil level unacceptable, pushing a 200 grain bullet at 1625 FPS out of my 14" T/C is a lot more pleasant to me than a 44 Mag in anything hand held.

Some of the early posters seem unfamiliar with the Max so here is a picture with a 357 magnum for comparison.

Attached Images

IMG_1605[1].jpg (76.8 KB, 29 views)

An X frame 357 Max would be a must buy for me. I am imagining the potential for a 200gr hard cast bullet load. That sucker would penetrate! With an 8-3/8" barrel I suspect 1500fps would be attainable.

Smith has the vehicle for just about any caliber, including all the Dan Wesson cartridges, just imagine the fire breathing wild cats.

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"I'm feeling MUCH better now"

Well they’re gods among mortals, of course. They can do no wrong, and deserve all the industry benefits and kickbacks right?

IMHO the last great gun writers are dead. Nowadays you can’t throw a stick two feet without hitting a parroting, regurgitating, uninspired, copycat gun writers.

Now that's a name I haven't thought about in many a year.

I remember all the 357 Maximum controversy from those days, but since I almost never shoot even 357 Magnum, I didn't follow it all that closely.

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John 3:16 .

Back in the day there were 3 guns with data for hand loading info for the .357 Maximum that were available , Ruger SBH, Thompson Center Contender, and the Dan Wesson's, and a few custom built guns .
All heavy built, but able to stand the pounding. Not sure if there is enough market demand to warrant going there again.
Most manufacturer's seem to be fixated on springs and plastics these days.

I think the market would be strong enough to warrant producing a new 357 Max based on the X frame. Really the only manufacturing changes would be boring the cylinder and barrel, something that requires very little retooling.

I've never heard of this .357 Maximum caliber/loading. Tell me more please!

Those Dan Wesson's... Goodness they are beautiful. I gawked at those cylinder stop cuts, their length, and the precision cuts to prevent cylinder from counter rotation under heavy recoil like in the N frame .44mags with the "Endurance Package"... Dan Wesson makes a super-high-quality revolver and 1911. I don't own an example of either but my next 1911 will be a 4" combat version of DW...

You can get close to that performance with .357 Mag. I bet you could easily get 2,000+ FPS with a 158 grain bullet out out of an XVR. With a 200 grain .460 load you can get 2,300 FPS. The problem with a .357 Max would be the case capacity is quite a bit less than the other X frame calibers and the gun would weigh 6 pounds(just a guess, but probably close). With a .460 it's pretty easy to get a 280 to 340 grain bullet going 1,500 and the recoil is actually pleasant.

Personally I think a slightly beefed up and longer cylinder N Frame would be a better option for .357 Max, but that's probably even less realistic than an X frame.

The guy who comes up with ideas for TAURUS and his boss that lets him execute thise ideas at TAURUS should go work for S&W.

S&W is too stodgy and bean-counter focused to take any chances with innovative products.

If you are talking about a 357 Magnum using a 158 grain projectile and staying withing SAAMI pressure limits, I will cover any bet you are willing to put down

Hornady's 158 XTP factory loading only hits 1744 FPS when fired from a 18" 1892 lever-action. While that is not a bleeding edge max load, there is not another 250 FPS to squeeze out of it

You are right, Smith and Wesson is not going to design a new frame for a cartridge that has had such poor commercial success over the past several decades.

On the other hand, the existing X-frame is big enough and strong enough to be chambered for the 360DW, 357 Maximum or even the 357 SUPERMAG with a 10 or perhaps 11 round cylinder . . . Now I need to go measure one

The X-frame is big enough and strong enough for the 375 SUPERMAG, 414 SUPERMAG or 445 SUPERMAG cartridges in 6 or perhaps even 7 shot cylinders.

I would be ecstatic to see the 414 SUPERMAG in an X-frame

To add to your thoughts that you can't get a 158gr to 2,000fps and stay SAAMI spec in .357 Magnum, I totally agree but you have to look at Alliant's load data with Power Pro 300-MP.

Don't look at it because it's possible--
Look at their data to see some published blantant lies!
Load data for 300-MP is ridiculous.

What I meant to express that .357 Mag can get close and even top 1,500 FPS with a longer barreled revolver and that with a .357 Max load you could easily top that and and get over 2,000 FPS. The post I responded to seemed to think the .357 Max would top out at 1,500 FPS with a 158 grain bullet. I agree that 2,000 FPS out of a .357 Mag is not going to happen.

Either way the X Frame is kind of over-kill for any .357 revolver. Honestly 5 .460 rounds stuffed into the cylinder looks kind of awkward because the cylinder is so massive.

I would be in for an X Frame .357 Super Mag! Deer don't need a .460 to take them down, nor do 200m Rams in metallic silhouette. But having fielded a Dan Wesson .357 SM on several occasions, I like the round. Not so much the revolver, even though it IS accurate.

Envisioning a 10" barreled adjustable front sight having S&W .357 Super Mag is quite pleasant. I suppose an 8" barreled version would be OK, too. But I'm getting to that age where having the front sight further away is helpful in whatever degree....

I would settle for a cylinder that held 6 357 Better even if you had to shorten the cases a bit