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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 01-11-2020, 10:30 AM
stevenstark711 stevenstark711 is offline
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Just wanted to give a positive shout out to Wolff springs,orders hammer ribbed spring and trigger rebound springs,was having issues with light hammer drop,contacted cust serv, with my concerns,they said was a problem with newer Smith's revolvers,said needed longer strain screw which they sent me free of charge,now that's cust ser

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Old 01-11-2020, 10:45 AM
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Every Ruger revolver I've owned since the '80s has had a Wolff spring kit.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:54 PM
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That's a little disingenuous on their part. The reason for the light strikes is that the strain screw bears on the concavity of the rib - thus effectively shortening the reach of the strain screw.

Just sayin'

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Old 01-11-2020, 06:29 PM
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That's a little disingenuous on their part. The reason for the light strikes is that the strain screw bears on the concavity of the rib - thus effectively shortening the reach of the strain screw.

Just sayin'

Adios,

Pizza Bob
Exactly. I'd assume the longer strainscrew reduces some of the Power Rib's lightening effect, minimizing the whole point of switching to one...
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:39 PM
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Wolff springs have legendary and proven performance.

I've always had good luck with Wilson's springs. But I'd go with Wolff springs in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:14 PM
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Wolff springs have legendary and proven performance.

I've always had good luck with Wilson's springs. But I'd go with Wolff springs in a heartbeat.
I wasn't impugning the quality of the Wolff product, just their rationalization that the reason for the light strikes is that S&W didn't have the foresight to build their revolvers to work with aftermarket springs.

Light strikes with a "change-the-springs" action job is a well-known malady among those of us that shoot revolvers in competition.

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Old 01-11-2020, 08:31 PM
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If you take apart enough of the newer S&Ws with the Power Rib spring installed from the factory you will notice that the spring doesn't have near the arch as the old flat springs. It makes me wonder if S&W thought to use a longer strain screw to compensate for the rib or just used the same old part. I also think the round butt frame exacerbates this problem. I use an allen set screw w/locking compound from McMaster Carr and it solves a lot of issues. Of course this is after a careful stoning of the internal parts and a thorough polishing of the frame cavity.
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Old 01-12-2020, 02:14 AM
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Wolff needs to take American Express now that Amex has reduced their rates.
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Old 01-12-2020, 06:05 AM
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Amex burned me twice - never again! Haven't missed them in the last 9 years.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:40 AM
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I have switched to Wilson. I like the flat spring. Not as light as the ribbed, but I don’t get light strikes.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:41 AM
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I wasn't impugning the quality of the Wolff product, just their rationalization that the reason for the light strikes is that S&W didn't have the foresight to build their revolvers to work with aftermarket springs.

Light strikes with a "change-the-springs" action job is a well-known malady among those of us that shoot revolvers in competition.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
Bob,

I've never experienced a light primer strike as it relates to this discussion. I have never seen a light primer strike. I know of no one who has experienced a light primer strike.

If I were to experience a light primer strike and I were to eliminate all other potential causes leaving the mainspring as causal, would it be the gun's fault, the spring's fault, or my fault for installing an inferior spring?

Has everyone ever experienced a single problem with any Wilson spring. I haven't.

Wilson is renowned for quality. Why would Wilson risked its earned esteemed reputation by selling inferior parts bearing its name?

Omega makes the most accurate automatic chronometers in the world. The Omega Speedmaster, the only watch to survive NASA's chronometer testing process, is the only watch to have been on the moon. The precision of the Speedmaster saved Apollo 13 astronauts' lives. Omega is the official timekeeper of the International Olympic Committee. Do you think Omega would risk its esteemed reputation for crafting precision automatic chronometers by using inferior calibres?

Bob, if you've experienced light primer strikes, my suggestion is to determine cause. It might just be that you have incorrectly matched mainspring to gun.

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Old 01-12-2020, 10:47 AM
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If you play with spring and strain screw you may need to switch to Federal primers. Go to Wolff type 2, blue locktite the strain screw, turn in how you like it, shoot a few cylinders so they all go off, let locktite set...et voila...
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
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Have you ever experienced a light primer strike?

You've repeatedly mentioned light primer strike as thought it's a routine occurrence for you.

As politely as I can convey this crucial concept and with no intention of impugning you, you seen to be neurotic about light primer strikes. My suggestion is to conduct a self-assessment.

My guess is that I have seen in excess of thousands of revolvers on firing lines. I cannot recall a single light strike. I know of no one who has told me he has had a light primer strike.
Have you had detailed conversations with those thousands about any mods they may or may not have done? How do you know none of them have experienced a light strike?

My limited experience has shown about 50/50 chance of light strikes when putting a ribbed spring in with no other modifications, on frame mounted pin guns.

Doesn’t mean ribbed springs are bad, but light strikes can happen. It will also vary from gun to gun.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:23 AM
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My Model 29-10, which I use for competition, has a Wolff 15 pound rebound spring and the factory standard, Wolff Power Rib mainspring. I had a gunsmith install these and also smooth everything that needed to be smoothed. The gun runs flawlessly with a double action trigger pull of 7.5 pounds, which is perfect for me.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SixGunSancho View Post
Bob, if you've experienced light primer strikes, my suggestion is to determine cause. It might just be that you have incorrectly matched mainspring to gun.
Sancho:

I have put, literally, tens of thousands of rounds down range while competing with revolvers. Anytime you change something from OE spec you run the risk of unintended consequences.

I doubt very strongly that there are any revolver shooters, who seriously play action games with modified revolvers, that have not experienced light strikes at some point in their competitive career - especially those that simply change springs with the expectation that all will be well.

Again, Wilson, Wolff etc. all make fine products but cannot be expected to account for every production variance in every gun in which their products are used. The installer/end user needs to be aware of what can happen and how to remedy the situation when it does.

Adios,

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Old 01-12-2020, 01:01 PM
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Sancho:


Again, Wilson, Wolff etc. all make fine products but cannot be expected to account for every production variance in every gun in which their products are used. The installer/end user needs to be aware of what can happen and how to remedy the situation when it does.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
My guess is revolver manufacturers buy some components such as springs from vendors. Whether they buy them from vendors or make them themselves, upon what facts could you rely that would support factory installed springs are superior to Woolf or Wilson?

This is an educated guess: Woolf and Wilson springs are superior to factory installed springs.
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Old 01-12-2020, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SixGunSancho View Post
My guess is revolver manufacturers buy some components such as springs from vendors. Whether they buy them from vendors or make them themselves, upon what facts could you rely that would support factory installed springs are superior to Woolf or Wilson?

This is an educated guess: Woolf and Wilson springs are superior to factory installed springs.
I never said that factory installed springs are superior to aftermarket springs. However, they are the springs with which the gun was designed to work and S&W or any manufacturer will turn a deaf ear to any complaints that arise from the use of aftermarket components.

Smith does indeed use some Wolff Power Rib springs in their guns - most notably some of their PC offerings. I am equally sure that the gun is designed and tested around those springs. Any light strikes that occur with a production gun, as produced and with the strain screw fully tightened would be addressed under warranty.

The main reason people change to aftermarket springs is to lighten the trigger pull, as I pointed out before, that often results in unintended consequences. People that compete with revolvers tacitly accept that risk and are prepared to deal with it or mitigate it. I doubt that you'll find very many revolver competitors that use anything other than Federal primers. They have the softest cups and will ignite with lighter FP strikes than others.

I'm done with this.

Adios,

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Old 01-13-2020, 07:42 AM
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I shot PPC for about a decade. As I recall, always used Federal primers in my competition reloads. The only problem I had was when the strain screw backed out ever so slightly. Light strikes. Cranked it in a locked it in place, no more problems.

Two of my competition revolvers had the actions reworked but used the factory springs. A bit heavier than the Davis PPC revolver but equally smooth action. For me, I prefer a smooth action.

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Old 01-13-2020, 12:56 PM
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The best way to get the lightest action while eliminating light strikes is to measure and quantify what is going on. Everyone seems to just put parts together and hope for the best, sometimes not an effective plan.

What I do is leave carry or duty guns stock. If you ever need to use it, you wouldn't even notice a heavy trigger pull.

For a target or competition action, I will use a #8-32 x 1/2" socket set screw (headless) with blue Loctite. Then use whatever mainspring and set the tension of the mainspring by measuring the hammer pull using a trigger pull gage.
For Federal primers, with a firing pin of .495 or longer, around 40 to 44 ounces will be reliable. For Winchester primers, about 60 ounces, and CCI about 72 ounces. I drill an access hole in the grip to make adjustments without removing the grips. My guns are working guns, not concerned about the looks. When test firing the gun, you can adjust the mainspring tension up or down to find where it's reliable with that gun and ammo. I make adjustments in approx. 1/8 turn increments of the strain screw. A little bit goes a long way. Once I feel it's reliable, I give it a bit more for insurance.
Every gun and combination of parts is different, so these numbers will vary some. The point is, find what works for that gun and ammo and record the number. Then if you have to work on it later, you can just dial the mainspring back to where it was before. Measuring, not guessing.

Once you have the mainspring working well, try different rebound springs to get the trigger return you like. You don't have to guess what the springs are - you can test them, too. Put a rebound spring in the gun with the hammer out and see what the trigger pull is with just the rebound. The rebound springs I use have about 2 pounds of resistance on the trigger pull gage, when pulling the trigger. Factory springs are around 4 pounds. The various other ones are somewhere in between.

Following this method will get you the lightest trigger pull that works the way you want it to. If you can learn to operate the trigger finger both directions, you can have a lighter rebound spring, therefore a lighter pull. If you ride the trigger forward, you will need a heavier rebound spring, but can still be a lot better than factory trigger.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:08 PM
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McMaster sells an extended tip thread locking set screw that works great for this. #95235A507.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:59 PM
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I was told by one of the master smiths above that it's all about bending the main spring. Bend the top to the right to lighten the pull, lessen the rebound spring so it just returns to where it should be by either using a lighter return spring or cutting a few coils off the original.
Find the happy medium between trigger return and consistent hammer strikes is what its all about! Bring the tools to the range, take off the grips, find the sweet spot.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:59 AM
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I don't have as consistent a result as I have had with lightly removing metal from the top 1/3 of the mainspring with an 600 grit belt sander. Springs do come in various thicknesses over the years. It's trial by test until you find what works in that particular gun.
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:28 PM
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Wolff is my go to for replacement springs in my semi-autos. And I have used their lighter rebound springs in S&W revolvers with excellent results. However, experience has taught me to never use anything but a S&W factory mainspring in their revolvers. Every aftermarket mainspring I've ever tried, including Wolff, led to light strikes.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:30 PM
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Wolff is my go to for replacement springs in my semi-autos. And I have used their lighter rebound springs in S&W revolvers with excellent results. However, experience has taught me to never use anything but a S&W factory mainspring in their revolvers. Every aftermarket mainspring I've ever tried, including Wolff, led to light strikes.
Heh, that's funny as I have had the no problems with Wolff replacement mainsprings on my N frames. None of the replacement mainsprings from Wolff have given me light strikes, both their old flat springs and the newer V rib springs. I will say though that with the V-ribs I buy the factory replacement spring instead of the lighter spring. The only V-rib spring that has given me problems actually came from S&W in my 627-5 Pro. That gun would give me light strikes from the get go in double action. Instead of sending it back to S&W, I had an extra regular strength V-rib Wolff sitting around and swapped it into the 627 and problem was fixed. And I don't just check with Federal primers either. I mostly load pistol with CCI primers.
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