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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #101  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:19 PM
J D Shelby J D Shelby is offline
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Default Same issue much better result

I was shooting my Rutgers super Blackhawk about 20 years ago and I had a similar action with either overloaded 44 mag or under loaded the first round probably cracked the cylinder and the second ripped those two away except for about a 1/4" and arched the top strap. My youngest son had just stepped into the lane next to me and he got some powder burns but it scared the stuffing out of us. My wrist was sore from this but we were both blessed.

I sold my 41 magnum shortly after that.
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  #102  
Old 02-03-2020, 01:58 PM
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I'm glad to hear you got through this disaster without any more damage to you than what happened, Shark Bait. And glad you posted up about this as a reminder to us reloaders to keep our whole attention while reloading. And like others here, I do not use powders such as Titegroup, especially in a deep case such as a 44 Mag for just such a reason as this because it's so hard to see a double charge of powder with powders such as Titegroup in a deep case. For reduced velocity loads in 44 and 357 I much prefer to use a more bulky powder such as Unique or HP38 instead. At least with those, if you do throw a double charge of powder in the case it is immediately noticeable. And while I've never used it, the Trail Boss powder sounds like a good choice too.

BTW, any of you guys out there have the Quickload software? If so, input 16 grains of Titegroup into it and get an estimate on what kind of pressures that double charged round produced.
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  #103  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:40 PM
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I just updated my original post with more pictures and info. Thanks again to you all for being supportive and helping me learn as much as possible from this nearly tragic event!
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  #104  
Old 02-03-2020, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
I just updated my original post with more pictures and info. Thanks again to you all for being supportive and helping me learn as much as possible from this nearly tragic event!
WOW! Looks like you could have loaded a round with C4.

You were for sure being looked over at the time that happened.
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  #105  
Old 02-03-2020, 03:50 PM
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Glad you're okay, I'll bet you have a whole new appreciation for working hand and fingers. Sometimes it is the simple things in life that are most enjoyable.

I would get a second opinion on the fragment still implanted, If it's the same that would be good enough for me, if it's different, then you can decide what you think is best.

Personally I wouldn't send the gun to S&W, I'd keep it just to remind myself to be thankful.
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  #106  
Old 02-03-2020, 04:10 PM
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As George Orwell would say, doubleplus ungood. Yes, you were not hurt badly and the rest of us can review our reloading procedures.
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  #107  
Old 02-03-2020, 04:16 PM
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Despite having a Dillon 500
which I got for Cowboy Action
Shooting, I've now reverted to
my RCBS single stage press.

During those years with the Dillon
I had a few too hot loads I didn't
expect and started measuring more
than I liked for a progressive press.

I actually enjoy the leisurely pace
of the single stage and feel very
confident about my reloads using
fast powders such as Win. 231.
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  #108  
Old 02-03-2020, 04:43 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is online now
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Wink

Glad you survived even if lots of blood leaked. You'll make new blood. I agree the piece left in your cheek should be removed. The doc who worked on you was probably needing to move on.

I had a friend blow up his new 8-shot 627 about 20 yrs. ago with TiteGroup. He was convinced he didn't double charge. He blamed the gun and sent it back. S&W would NOT sell him another 627 but did sell him a 625 at a good price.

Early in my handloading career I produced about 500 rounds of 45ACP with 200gr LSWCs and Win 231. I went to the range and had a squib about every third round. I loaded on a Dillon 550 and the powder measure malfunctioned . I tried weighing the rounds and quickly learned the powder charge was so small variations in bullets and brass prevented me from solving the problem. Eventually, I just pounded every round apart with a bullet puller.

I am a devout believer in the idea of using smaller brass if you want to shoot poofy loads in your magnum guns.
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  #109  
Old 02-03-2020, 05:25 PM
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Looks like you have a usable strain screw and bloody Hogues that could be sold. Glad you are ok. Jh
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  #110  
Old 02-03-2020, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPD256 View Post
Looks like you have a usable strain screw and bloody Hogues that could be sold. Glad you are ok. Jh
I'll keep the Hogues with medallions, and i collected the internals. The frame is bent bad enough that I can't get the trigger out. I'll keep working on it.
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  #111  
Old 02-03-2020, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
I'll keep the Hogues with medallions, and i collected the internals. The frame is bent bad enough that I can't get the trigger out. I'll keep working on it.
Keep it in a display box with all the pieces and put it on a shelf as conversation piece
I would keep it all together
First off any parts off of it could be subject and I would use anything
Second a conversation piece is always great ...
Just my 2 cents
God Bless,John

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  #112  
Old 02-03-2020, 05:41 PM
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Awh, that'll buff right out.
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  #113  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:02 PM
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All you can do is get back to the bench and start cranking them out again. Take pride in what you do, you are making better rounds than any commercial garbage at half the cost and safer to boot! Mistakes happen and you just have to move forward and get back to the press ASAP!
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  #114  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:12 PM
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Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer...
I don't get the adjoining rounds going off.

Glad your ok.
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  #115  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:20 PM
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Look at the primers of the adjacent rounds — they did not, in fact, go off. They were shredded and the primers are still live.
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  #116  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Look at the primers of the adjacent rounds — they did not, in fact, go off. They were shredded and the primers are still live.
Thanks...I noticed the primers were intact.
I get what your saying.
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  #117  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:29 PM
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Both eyes, all digits, full mouth of teeth? You are fortunate.
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  #118  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:30 PM
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Sevens is correct. They did not actually go off. They got ripped apart. I found one of the bullets at the range today.
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  #119  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:44 PM
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The reason I use Longshot in 45acp is because of a problem like yours. It only takes one time to learn a lesson about double charges.
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  #120  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:45 PM
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I think I heard that explosion down here in Deming.!
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  #121  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:50 PM
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I think I heard that explosion down here in Deming.!
I bet you could see the mushroom cloud too.
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  #122  
Old 02-03-2020, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jringo8769 View Post
Keep it in a display box with all the pieces and put it on a shelf as conversation piece
I would keep it all together
First off any parts off of it could be subject and I would use anything
Second a conversation piece is always great ...
Just my 2 cents
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Yep, I'd have left it exactly like the first picture of it, and mounted it in a glass case on my wall.
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  #123  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:28 PM
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If you disassemble the remaining rounds, I'd keep an eye out for a no-charge in another round.

I've been thinking about getting a 5lb jug of AA2 for 9mm instead of my usual slow burning powders. Might be re-thinking that plan.

In the end, it could have happened to any of us. I'm glad you escaped reasonably unscathed.
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  #124  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Look at the primers of the adjacent rounds — they did not, in fact, go off. They were shredded and the primers are still live.
Which also puts to rest the question of a squib, unless it had been the last round fired from the previous cylinder.
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  #125  
Old 02-03-2020, 10:31 PM
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Wow, glad you kept all your external parts after that.

Cory
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  #126  
Old 02-03-2020, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buford57 View Post
Which also puts to rest the question of a squib, unless it had been the last round fired from the previous cylinder.
Certainly no squib. The previous round was factory and on target.
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  #127  
Old 02-04-2020, 12:03 AM
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I echo all the previous comments with condolences and appreciation for posting. Thinking back to the earlier comments about the wisdom of weighing remaining cartridges vs. pulling the bullets, it seems like this presents a great opportunity to do both, compare results, and let us know what you find.
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  #128  
Old 02-04-2020, 05:35 AM
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Nothing a little JB weld and imagination can't fix. All joking aside, Holy ****! Glad none of those metal chunks didn't find their way into your eyes.
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  #129  
Old 02-04-2020, 07:17 AM
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I use to reload shotgun shells but if the stroke of my progressive reloader wasn't fully completed..from a jammed wad or flipped primer, the ensuing mess was too much for me to handle.I just didn't enjoy it enough to continue doing it.

I then decided to support ammo companies exclusively.Yes..a bad round can happen even from the factory,but it is far and few between.

So glad this mishap wasn't worse. Lessons learned.

Last edited by Breakaway500; 02-04-2020 at 07:22 AM.
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  #130  
Old 02-04-2020, 08:00 AM
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Glad you are okay.

Weighing the rest of the rounds, while a good idea will probably not give you peace of mind. Get an inertia puller and break them down if you feel at all uncomfortable with them.

Accidents happen. I have used a Dillon 450 since they came out and got a couple of squibs. Never got an over charge but a couple with zero powder. Consider a bulkier powder and get back into it.

Kevin
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  #131  
Old 02-04-2020, 09:28 AM
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I'm going to break them all down and go with a bulkier powder, as many of you suggested. My poor wife first asked me not to go to the range anymore, but she knew the answer already. Then she asked me not to hand load anymore. I explained that with the right powder this should never happen again. Hope I'm right.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:31 AM
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I did weigh empty brass, then bullets, then loaded cartridges. I found that the variances can be enough to make detecting an overcharge of 8 grains difficult. It just isn't worth the risk, so I'll break em all down and start over.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:12 AM
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A couple of comments . I stopped shooting full house 44 mags in my prized 29/629´s years ago , still shoot a lot of 240,300,320 grain heavy loads but only in my Super Blackhawk and Redhawk revolvers. I too have a hornady progressive with powder checker but only light .38 and .45acp cartridges are done on it. All my heavy loads are done on a single stage hornady . I can eyeball all 50 rounds after charging and before bullet seating , also I only use h110,296,2400 so as others have said virtually imposible to over charge a case .

Last edited by stevebarracuda; 02-04-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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  #134  
Old 02-04-2020, 10:25 AM
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Be sure not to tell your wife. Mine would take all my toys away.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
Yes, there is such thing as a bad day at the range. My beautiful 629-4 was blown up by a hand load today. I figure I must have got a double charge somehow. I use a Hornady progressive press and can't understand how I could get a double charge.

I caught a piece of shell casing in my left cheek and it bled A LOT! Docs are just going to leave it in there. A souvenir I guess.








The stress shown in the metal in the following pictures illustrates the extreme pressure causing the failure. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. My two companions and I were extremely lucky. This easily could have killed someone. Be safe my friends!









Fortunate? Extremely!


Thanks for posting and this sort of thing should be a sticky in the ammo and reloading section. A double or triple charge of any powder is an extremely dangerous thing and it is so easy to do with large capacity cases and fast burning rate powders. I am glad that no one was seriously injured and I think you are very wise to disassemble all of the remaining reloaded ammo.
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Old 02-04-2020, 12:57 PM
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I sincerely appreciate your post. After four kids, pursuing two careers, combat deployments and a recent divorce, I have started to get back into the hobby. Last year I got on the forum after going through my safe and starting to clean everything out. Anyway, I've broken out the old reloading gear and I'm about to get started again after many years of focusing on others. This post came at the right time for me and I'll make sure to go slow and steady. Thanking God that you, or anyone else, didn't get seriously hurt. I'm really looking forward to reloading for my M29 and Anaconda.
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:41 PM
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Glad you weren't hurt more seriously, just shared this post with my reloading friends that are in to progressives. Sorry to hear about the pistol.
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Old 02-04-2020, 04:11 PM
MajorD MajorD is offline
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While it is true many people use progressive loaders like a Dillion with good results, because so many things are going on simultaneously it is sometimes hard to spot when something goes wrong. I still use an old slow single stage but it does give you the chance to have better quality control and see or feel when something goes wrong.
I have thankfully only witnessed a few catastrophic failures in guns shooting reloads over the 40 or so years I have been shooting, but they all had one thing in common- ammo loaded on a progressive press.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:01 PM
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Holy moley. You were lucky in a way, that could have been much worse. Glad to hear you weren't seriously injured.

My routine is to visually check every case for correct powder amount, but then I don't use a progressive loader. Not sure how to do that with a progressive. I used to use a progressive loader for shotgun shells as most people do. I've seen some double charges on the trap line but no hand grenades like that.

I had a squib once due to my carelessness. Loaded a case without powder or very little powder, not sure which. Bullet was lodged just enough to keep the next round from going into battery. Scared the carp out of me because I didn't know it when I pulled the trigger on the out-of-battery round. No ignition so no kaboom. Bullet was jammed in that barrel pretty tight. Had to hammer it out with a long bolt. So you aren't the only one who's screwed up.

Be safe.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:07 PM
Bronco89 Bronco89 is offline
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Gives me the wheby Jebies.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:15 PM
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It’s misleading and not intellectually honest to blame this event on the use of a progressive press.

You could argue that if he had not used a progressive, it wouldn’t have happened, and that wouldn’t be much different than saying if his hobby were Ping Pong instead of handguns, this wouldn’t have happened.

Checks and balances, a process that reinforces QC and more than anything, powder selection should be the focus when it comes to avoiding an event of this nature.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:56 PM
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That is scary-glad you are ok. Your experience brought back a scary memory for me. Way back in the 70s I was the night guy at a range in Haverstraw, NY.A regular customer came in to try out his brand new Colt Trooper .357. After a while he came to me and said he was having lots of trouble getting his emptys out. He had to really bang the rod to get them ejected. His brass looked ok so I suggested that it being brand new the chambers may just be a little rough. I suggested he hand me a couple of rounds and I would try them through a rental. I picked a M19. First shot and it blew itself to hell and back very similar to what happened to your gun. I was in shock but totally uninjured. My customer was not in the booth with me thank God. When I calmed myself down he said he never had a problem with his reloads before!! Reloads--he never mentioned that until after the incident. I learned a valuable lesson, always ask the question are these reloads and never shoot any reloads you did not load yourself,
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:37 PM
PapaWheelie PapaWheelie is offline
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Very glad that you are OK, wow, that could have been tragic.

As someone new to pistol reloading that first picture is going on my bench as a constant reminder to check, and then check again. Then check again just to be sure.

Take care, again, glad you are OK.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:43 PM
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Even more glad I use Trail Boss for light loads. Glad you survived. We're all interested in what the factory says about this.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:01 PM
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Even more glad I use Trail Boss for light loads. Glad you survived. We're all interested in what the factory says about this.
I won't be bothering the factory for this. I already know why the gun blew up. I will just have to adjust my technique for charging cases.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:15 PM
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Isn't there a thing called a powder cop for progressives? Not being a progressive reloader I only have heard the term, know nothing about it.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:08 AM
The_Truth The_Truth is offline
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Was this the first bullet in a freshly loaded cylinder? I only see what I'm assuming to be damage in the form of a line on one of the adjacent rounds.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:50 AM
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Was this the first bullet in a freshly loaded cylinder? I only see what I'm assuming to be damage in the form of a line on one of the adjacent rounds.
Yes. I had just fired 6 factory loads, loaded 6 hand loads, and it was the very first hand load that detonated. This ripped the two adjacent cartridges apart but did not cause them to go off. I had fired about 100 of these loads in various guns on prior trips to the range, all without any issue whatsoever. The only thing that makes any sense to me at all is a double charge. Look closely at the primer pocket of the fired casing. It appears to be blown out somewhat. It is clear that this one cartridge is responsible for the damage.

The line on the primer of the round on the left was caused by it hitting the recoil shield as the cylinder was slammed downward into the frame. The M in MAG on the headstamp is visible on the recoil shield. See below. The old crime scene investigator is coming back out now.




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Old 02-05-2020, 01:27 PM
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Thank the Lord that you are here to post about the mishap !
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:01 PM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is offline
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The only gun ever demolished on my club's range was a .357 that surely got a double dose of Bullseye. And not one of those "target loads in magnum brass" deals either.

I only used one can of Titegroup, just too hard to see down in the bottom of the case, even compared to 231 or Bullseye.

I hang over the seating station of my lighted Dillon and am comfortable with 9mm and .45. It is a lot harder to see a light load in a .38 Special. Uniquetek used to sell a mirror for the purpose, but shows it as "discontinued by manufacturer."
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