25-9 for Bullseye with 45 Special brass

[pittpa]

This is related to my posting on setting up a 686 Plus for Bullseye competition, to replace my Python 38. As I don't know when I'll return home, I've put off the purchase and have been considering what I have in the safe.
My 29-5 is chambered in 45 Colt and has an 8-3/8" barrel with tight chamber throats and a very nice trigger. The weight is great for one-handed double action shooting. The problem is that I've found light target loads to be inconsistent in the 45 Colt brass. The most accurate loads are too hot for my preference when shooting rapid fire. I've tried bullets from 185 grain to 255 grain.
My 625-8 is super accurate, but the light weight of the gun is not conducive to maintaining a steady aim when shooting double action with one hand.

Consider that I'm accustomed to a 2.7 grains WST under a 148g wadcutter in an 8" 4# Python. The Python recoil is like a slight bump in the road in your Lexus.
I don't believe the 45 Auto Rim will fit in a revolver that is not made for moon clips due to the thickness of the rim. But I understand that the 45 Cowboy Special is a 45 ACP size case with a 45 Colt rim that will fit in my 25-9. I'm optimistic that I can find a load for this brass that will be accurate in the 25-9.
FYI, I'm using a 170g Magnus bullet over about 4.3g WST in my 625, simply because it is the most accurate load in my 1911 and is very accurate in the 625. If I could put an 8" barrel on the 625, I think I'd call it a day.

[colt_saa]

45 AR is not compatible with an unmodifed 45LC revolver.

While I have not tried them myself, there are vendors that produce HBWCs for the 45 caliber revolver shooting.

I know that Matt's is one of them. I never looked much at them before tomight, at 240 grains they might not do the trick for you, but Matt's offers a very wide range of weights and styles

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...39cgjbcip7i9t1

[M29since14]

And what was your question?

Good heavens! You shoot bullseye with that thing? A couple of thoughts. Have you considered a trigger job for your “lightweight” 625-8? Tried Trail Boss in your .45 Colt target loads? My most accurate .45 Colt loads use 800X, but they are heavier than you’re interested in. Too bad you can’t just take the easy route and screw an 8-inch 25 barrel on your 625, but I doubt it is practical because of the difference in cylinder lengths. Anyway, good luck with your dilemma.

[StrawHat]

Yes, the 45 Cowboy Special will work in your 45 long Colt revolver just like a 38 Special will work in a 357 Magnum revolver. Load data will be the same as for the 45 ACP/AR.

There are lighter WC bullets available but I have not used them.

Kevin

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by M29since14

And what was your question?

Good heavens! You shoot bullseye with that thing? A couple of thoughts. Have you considered a trigger job for your “lightweight” 625-8? Tried Trail Boss in your .45 Colt target loads? My most accurate .45 Colt loads use 800X, but they are heavier than you’re interested in. Too bad you can’t just take the easy route and screw an 8-inch 25 barrel on your 625, but I doubt it is practical because of the difference in cylinder lengths. Anyway, good luck with your dilemma.

Yup, tried a lot of trail Boss loads. I like the weight/trigger of the 25-9, and have shot matches with it. The 625 has a pretty nice trigger with a JM spring kit. I'm not sure about the 625 DA trigger pull, but it is just enough to set off Federal primers.
The Python has about a 7.5# DA trigger that I feel is appropriate for it's 4# weight. It only sets off Federal primers reliably.
The only downside I see to trying 45 Special is that I'll have to get a new shellplate/locator pins for the Dillon and buy some new brass. (Starline at $73/250 pieces).
Oh, and I shoot this thing in Bullseye.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by StrawHat

Yes, the 45 Cowboy Special will work in your 45 long Colt revolver just like a 38 Special will wrk in a 357 Magnum revolver. Load data will be the same as for the 45 ACP/AR.

There are lighter WC bullets available but I have not used them.

Kevin

I do have some full and button nose wadcutters for 45, but I forget the weights. Now I wonder, can I use my 45 colt dies for the 45 Cowboy Special? It would save me changing my 45 ACP die settings.

[StrawHat]

Originally Posted by pittpa

...The only downside I see to trying 45 Special is that I'll have to get a new shellplate/locator pins for the Dillon and buy some new brass. (Starline at $73/250 pieces)...

If you already load for the long Colt, the shell plate and pins should be the same.

I believe your resizing die will work but your bullet seater will be too long. A set of Lee dies are fairly inexpensive.

Kevin

[Groo01]

Groo here
Check how deep the bullet seats in your colt case.
You CAN do what's called "deep" seating the bullet.
That is , instead of crimping in the Groove, you crimp over the front driving band .
This reduces the volume of the case to the 45 schofield.[aka 38 spec length] start with schofield loads
As to trail boss powder , we have found the best results come from a full case of powder [but not compressed] , magnum primers, and a "HEAVY"
crimp.
This loading with a 215gr boolet in a 41 mag gave about 800 fps
And nice round groups from 5 different guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just an idea.

[StrawHat]

Groo mentioned the length of Schofield brass. 45 S&W brass will also chamber in the 45 long Colt.

Kevin

[6string]

Hi, I've tried a lot of this already. My brother had a 25-5 with 8 & 3/8" barrel. Best load for light target/Bullseye shooting was 6-6.5 gr Bullseye under an H&G 200 gr SWC.
I also used my M29 with same barrel length for Bullseye shooting. I tried 44 Spl and Russian brass. But, went back to full length Magnum brass and a light charge of Bullseye powder.

I think you'll find the long jump to the chamber throats will offset any advantages of the loading density offered by the shorter case.

Idea: if it's just a question of weight with your 625, why not just add a barrel weight? If you search this forum for "1950 Target Muzzle Brake" or include/substitute 25-2 as a search term, you'll see what I mean.
Here's a start:
For Sale S&W Muzzle Brake Pic

The intent was to reduce recoil. Questionable how effective they were, but, It will add some weight forward.

Jim

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by Groo01

Groo here
Check how deep the bullet seats in your colt case.
You CAN do what's called "deep" seating the bullet.
That is , instead of crimping in the Groove, you crimp over the front driving band .
This reduces the volume of the case to the 45 schofield.[aka 38 spec length] start with schofield loads
As to trail boss powder , we have found the best results come from a full case of powder [but not compressed] , magnum primers, and a "HEAVY"
crimp.
This loading with a 215gr boolet in a 41 mag gave about 800 fps
And nice round groups from 5 different guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just an idea.

Thanks Groo. I'll keep it in mind with the full wadcutter bullets that I can seat deep.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by colt_saa

45 AR is not compatible with an unmodifed 45LC revolver.

While I have not tried them myself, there are vendors that produce HBWCs for the 45 caliber revolver shooting.

I know that Matt's is one of them. I never looked much at them before tomight, at 240 grains they might not do the trick for you, but Matt's offers a very wide range of weights and styles

240 Grain Hollow Base Wadcutter (.452) [452-240-HBWC] - $26.00 : Matts Bullets

Now that's not something I've seen before.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by 6string

Idea: if it's just a question of weight with your 625, why not just add a barrel weight? If you search this forum for "1950 Target Muzzle Brake" or include/substitute 25-2 as a search term, you'll see what I mean.
Here's a start:
For Sale S&W Muzzle Brake Pic

The intent was to reduce recoil. Questionable how effective they were, but, It will add some weight forward.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. I did not know they made a 45 muzzle brake. That would be a nice solution for the hot 45 colt loads in the 25-9, but they are like unicorns. I found little info here in my search.
As for the 625, I doubt it would be enough weight to help keep the 625 steady during the DA trigger pull.
Now a barrel weight for the 625 could be just the ticket but I've been unable to find barrel weights (Or even pics of barrel weights) for 4" S&W revolvers.
This is the only photo I've seen of a Model 25 Muzzle break, on a 1955 Target.

[StrawHat]

Back when PPC was popular, several of the custom gunsmiths made a barrel weight that would slide over the underlug on a 686 and secure with one or two set screws. Jarvis and Clark are two I remember (I think).

Perhaps a machinist could cut something for you.

Kevin

[Groo01]

Groo here
DON'T try to keep the sights steady in double action ..
Keep the front sight around the target and only on it at the end just before the hammer drops.
A smooth constant pull and on target at the end .
The other way , staging works on some guns but on ones with a GOOD
SMOOTH action need a constant pull.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by Groo01

Groo here
DON'T try to keep the sights steady in double action ..
Keep the front sight around the target and only on it at the end just before the hammer drops.
A smooth constant pull and on target at the end .
The other way , staging works on some guns but on ones with a GOOD
SMOOTH action need a constant pull.

Thanks Groo. I use a red dot with my Bullseye guns except when I shoot in the Marine League Bullseye match. I have another Python Target with open sights for that match. That Python has a lighter trigger. I might not mind a modification to make the Python have a straight-through pull like Smith.
I don't expect a lot of folks are doing that mod anymore. But those that do C&S and Grant Cunningham, want about $250-$370 for the Python action job. Coincidentally where I am now is about 11 miles from Grant in Phoenix, but my Pythons are back in PA.

[pittpa]

Well, I'm looking over my options.
*Load some deep seated full wadcutters in the 45 Colt brass and cut down on the case space.
I like this option best. Those hollow base 45 wadcutters appear to have some potential and I should be able to fill the space with Trailboss.
* I could do some trigger work on my Model 27 PPC gun and take off the Wichita rib and scope it, and keep using 148g Bullseye loads as I am now.
Probably my second choice to get some better use from that revolver.
*Switch over to 45 Cowboy special and get the necessary brass and dies for my 550.
*Pay for a trigger job on the Python to make it straight through. Not an option at this time, although I will switch the red dot to the other Python to see if the trigger is more manageable.
That is what this is about. I've been having trouble managing the Python's stacking. Maybe I just need a change for a while.
Our league is suspended 'til at least mid-April, and I won't be home until 4/10 the soonest, so I'll go with the quickest options